[PeterPure]

Honestly I have done my own tests with plenty of logs. I have tried stock FMIC, Forge Fmic and Wagner Competition Fmic.

That being said I do run meth as well. Every day I do some multiple gear pulls. Over here where I live it only very seldomly gets over 85F. Usually in summer its around 75F. And from October to May its usually much cooler even.

My findings are the following for day to day driving with every now and then a 4/5/6th gear pull (60mph to 130mph):
Outside temps 70F:
Stock FMIC: IAT start at 85F, dropping to 60F due to meth then end of 6th gear its at 85F.
Forge FMIC: IAT start at 85F, dropping to 60F due to meth then climbs to 65F and never goes over it.
Wagner FMIC: IAT starts at 85F, dropping to 60F due to meth then climbs to 75F and never goes over it.

Forge FMIC has 2 psi boost drop over the whole range. This results in 0.5 seconds performance drop 60-120 compared with stock fmic.
Wagner has between 0.5 and 1 psi pressure drop over the whole range. This results in same performance as stock fmic in 60 to 120 times.

If ambient goes over 85F of course more advantage with the aftermarket fmic. But thats like 5% of the year over here. All in all I will stay with the wagner fmic and it guess it has its advantages over stock FMIC. And the difference would be bigger if not running meth.

But for the other 95% of the year when its less than 70F ambient stock fmic with meth in my case would be sufficient.

Just my 2 cents.

[CombatNinja]

As to pressure drop, keep in mind that this is a constant thing. You will have pressure drop when it is 55 degrees outside and the car is only just warmed up the same as you will have it when it is 110 and you have been sitting in traffic for an hour. This is one of the reasons I cited for an upgraded intercooler being of dubious value, you will be losing boost all the time.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by CombatNinja

As to pressure drop, keep in mind that this is a constant thing. You will have pressure drop when it is 55 degrees outside and the car is only just warmed up the same as you will have it when it is 110 and you have been sitting in traffic for an hour. This is one of the reasons I cited for an upgraded intercooler being of dubious value, you will be losing boost all the time.

Darkhold's data really doesn't mean anything since he is using meth. If you are then an upgraded FMIC is not needed. Independent source doing 3rd gear pulls:

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Darkhold's data really doesn't mean anything since he is using meth. If you are then an upgraded FMIC is not needed. Independent source doing 3rd gear pulls:

Lol Jet tnx for negating my findings :P I did indeed say in my case with meth in my climate

[Subaru335i]

if anything the stock turbo needs an upgraded intercooler more than upgraded turbos. When tuned, the stock turbo is pushed very far out of its efficiency range which means it heats up the intake charge more and more per psi of boost (becomes a hair dryer). If you have an upgraded turbo (even just a stage 1 compressor upgrade) you will be more efficient at the same psi and generate less heat in the intake charge.
I have the cobb stage 1 agressive and I can watch my IAT's rise on the street every single time I go WOT...and I live in MN which is hardly some desert. The stock intercooler is simply too small and heat soaks extremely easily.

[mashimarho]

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by Darkhold

Lol Jet tnx for negating my findings :P I did indeed say in my case with meth in my climate

Your findings were great for you, but for the rest of us not running meth it is apples to oranges. It is interesting that even with Meth you saw a 20* advantage with an upgraded FMIC over stock.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Your findings were great for you, but for the rest of us not running meth it is apples to oranges. It is interesting that even with Meth you saw a 20* advantage with an upgraded FMIC over stock.

Yes but the pressure drop from the fmic with 20f advantage also came with a performance drop.

[M.a.r.k.u.s]

I installed my fmic last night (in an hour and a half from start to finish ) and ran my buddy in his 01 impreza rs with full sti drivetrain and fbo. He got me by about half a car before the fmic and now I get him by about a car length. Sure you can argue that it's a drivers race when it's that close but we did quite a few runs the first time around with the same outcome and quite a few last night. It's always more or less the same result. So it definitely does make a difference.

[Subaru335i]

[MadToy]

Instead of comparing IAT's to see an FMIC's worth - does anyone have logs showing timing differences? I would think that's what makes the performance difference as an affect of lower IAT's. A few degrees of added timing should make up the difference and then some of 1 psi pressure drop I would guess.

[JETmn]

We just had this discussion in another thread. Any time you make air cooler the volume will drop due to the Ideal Gas Law, PV=nRT. If you lower the temperature either pressure and/or volume will drop. Volume can't drop as we are in the close environment so you end up with less pressure. There is no less air there for the engine to burn, it is just denser and therefore at less pressure.

Now you have to balance AIT drops with actual pressure drop from the FMIC due to an increased amount of turbulators, which are the main thing that give you the better cooling. Like everything it is give and take and as Darkhold found different FMIC's have different results for different turbos.

On a maxed out stock turbo you can't afford too much actual pressure drop, so you want less turbulators but still enough to keep AIT's in check. On a big turbo you don't care as much about pressure loss, you can just crank up the turbo more and go for the best AIT's.

TLR if the air is cooler it will be more dense. Psi will drop but that doesn't mean power will drop, it will actually go up.

[GR1P]

Originally Posted by JETmn

We just had this discussion in another thread. Any time you make air cooler the volume will drop due to the Ideal Gas Law, PV=nRT. If you lower the temperature either pressure and/or volume will drop. Volume can't drop as we are in the close environment so you end up with less pressure. There is no less air there for the engine to burn, it is just denser and therefore at less pressure.

Now you have to balance AIT drops with actual pressure drop from the FMIC due to an increased amount of turbulators, which are the main thing that give you the better cooling. Like everything it is give and take and as Darkhold found different FMIC's have different results for different turbos.

On a maxed out stock turbo you can't afford too much actual pressure drop, so you want less turbulators but still enough to keep AIT's in check. On a big turbo you don't care as much about pressure loss, you can just crank up the turbo more and go for the best AIT's.

TLR if the air is cooler it will be more dense. Psi will drop but that doesn't mean power will drop, it will actually go up.

With that being said, has our community come to a consensus on the best performing fmic for the stock turbo(s)?

[JETmn]

I don't think there is a consensus but the VRSF and Wagner seem to have a good blend of cooling and low pressure drop. I am sure there are others also.

[Tiago@VRSF]

If you're going to go with any intercooler, just make sure to avoid the OEM connector intertcooler. The OEM connectors are a huge restriction at higher boost levels since they neck down to under 2".

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by JETmn

We just had this discussion in another thread. Any time you make air cooler the volume will drop due to the Ideal Gas Law, PV=nRT. If you lower the temperature either pressure and/or volume will drop. Volume can't drop as we are in the close environment so you end up with less pressure. There is no less air there for the engine to burn, it is just denser and therefore at less pressure.

Now you have to balance AIT drops with actual pressure drop from the FMIC due to an increased amount of turbulators, which are the main thing that give you the better cooling. Like everything it is give and take and as Darkhold found different FMIC's have different results for different turbos.

On a maxed out stock turbo you can't afford too much actual pressure drop, so you want less turbulators but still enough to keep AIT's in check. On a big turbo you don't care as much about pressure loss, you can just crank up the turbo more and go for the best AIT's.

TLR if the air is cooler it will be more dense. Psi will drop but that doesn't mean power will drop, it will actually go up.

That explains it nicely!

[Turbmando]

Originally Posted by Darkhold

Honestly I have done my own tests with plenty of logs. I have tried stock FMIC, Forge Fmic and Wagner Competition Fmic.

That being said I do run meth as well. Every day I do some multiple gear pulls. Over here where I live it only very seldomly gets over 85F. Usually in summer its around 75F. And from October to May its usually much cooler even.

My findings are the following for day to day driving with every now and then a 4/5/6th gear pull (60mph to 130mph):
Outside temps 70F:
Stock FMIC: IAT start at 85F, dropping to 60F due to meth then end of 6th gear its at 85F.
Forge FMIC: IAT start at 85F, dropping to 60F due to meth then climbs to 65F and never goes over it.
Wagner FMIC: IAT starts at 85F, dropping to 60F due to meth then climbs to 75F and never goes over it.

Forge FMIC has 2 psi boost drop over the whole range. This results in 0.5 seconds performance drop 60-120 compared with stock fmic.
Wagner has between 0.5 and 1 psi pressure drop over the whole range. This results in same performance as stock fmic in 60 to 120 times.

If ambient goes over 85F of course more advantage with the aftermarket fmic. But thats like 5% of the year over here. All in all I will stay with the wagner fmic and it guess it has its advantages over stock FMIC. And the difference would be bigger if not running meth.

But for the other 95% of the year when its less than 70F ambient stock fmic with meth in my case would be sufficient.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: I see you tested the Wagner Competition intercooler, not the Evo 1. What Forge intercooler did you test? They have two versions.

According to this data the Wagner Evo 1 has pressure drop of 5.29 psi.

http://mosselmanturbo.com/uploads/me..._Mosselman.pdf

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by Turbmando

Edit: I see you tested the Wagner Competition intercooler, not the Evo 1. What Forge intercooler did you test? They have two versions.

According to this data the Wagner Evo 1 has pressure drop of 5.29 psi.

http://mosselmanturbo.com/uploads/me..._Mosselman.pdf

I tested fmics for F series N55. Not E series. Forge only has 1 F series FMIC.
But that mosselman review does look pretty biased.

[MNick]

Originally Posted by GR1P

With that being said, has our community come to a consensus on the best performing fmic for the stock turbo(s)?

I installed my AA FMIC and was a little disappointed with the fit. It appears the mounting brackets are a touch too hight and created a 5cm gap between the radiator and FMIC. Perhaps this FMIC is better suited for the N54?? I believe the fan is likely pulling most air thru the gap verses the radiator and FMIC, thus negating its cool effect.

Otherwise I haven't had any problems.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by MadToy

Instead of comparing IAT's to see an FMIC's worth - does anyone have logs showing timing differences? I would think that's what makes the performance difference as an affect of lower IAT's. A few degrees of added timing should make up the difference and then some of 1 psi pressure drop I would guess.

You can really only add timing if you increase octane or decrease inlet air temps so by no accident finding an intercooler that decreases IAT significantly would also increase timing. Timing, in theory, would only be increased to MBT though as blindly adding timing may not effectively add more power, necessarily.

Our 3 top intercoolers for N55 are VRSF, ER and ETS.

[Newguy123]

Well I just picked up the ER intercooler. I have PLENTY of before logs where my IATs with the stock fmic go from 95*-160* on multi gear pulls where ambient is 80*. YES this is affecting my timing. It will be interesting to see some hard data differences with this fmic including pressure drop. I should be installing it tomorrow night and have logs to follow. I don't know why no one is posting logs with similar ambient temps of stock and aftermarket inter coolers. Dark hold seems to be one of the only users I'm seeing with HARD data. So hopefully my findings with the ER will help out someone in the future decide what they want or if it's even worth it.

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

Well I just picked up the ER intercooler. I have PLENTY of before logs where my IATs with the stock fmic go from 95*-160* on multi gear pulls where ambient is 80*. YES this is affecting my timing. It will be interesting to see some hard data differences with this fmic including pressure drop. I should be installing it tomorrow night and have logs to follow. I don't know why no one is posting logs with similar ambient temps of stock and aftermarket inter coolers. Darkhold seems to be one of the only users I'm seeing with HARD data. So hopefully my findings with the ER will help out someone in the future decide what they want or if it's even worth it.

All data helps! I also had a hard time finding any data regarding boost/iat with aftermarket fmics.