[!Xoible]

it's just "brand perception"... c'mon i see FORD there man!

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by Z06_Socrates

Agreed. There's a reason the Z06 is called the "Super Car Killer".

ill take it in red please

[Neema]

CR is useless

[T-MC-G]

BRAND PERCEPTION means what the average Joe the Rag Man from the mid-west thinks of the different cars. So no wonder Ford and Chevy made the list.

[94JZA80]

i think people are getting a bit confused here...the OP accidentally posted a link to the "brand perception" report, but in fact he is talking about the "performance perception" report.

see post #2, which shows the "performance perception" report.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by 94JZA80

i think people are getting a bit confused here...the OP accidentally posted a link to the "brand perception" report, but in fact he is talking about the "performance perception" report.

see post #2, which shows the "performance perception" report.

key word is PRECEPTION, regardless of what sub categroy

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by T-MC-G

BRAND PERCEPTION means what the average Joe the Rag Man from the mid-west thinks of the different cars. So no wonder Ford and Chevy made the list.

Actually, since the coasts are more populated it probably better represents Average Joe the ignorant from one of the coasts...

You don't ever go by Rufus do you?

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by 94JZA80

keep in mind that consumer reports represents the majority, and the average driver skill level of the majority of consumers is very low. in other words, a very small fraction of consumers know how to really "drive a car" and are actual enthusiasts. that being said, there's a simple explanation for such a perception: BMW's are generally easier to drive than Porsche's [and certain other competition]. BMW's are typically very "neutral" cars (via their near 50/50 weight distributions, among other reasons).

example: the e46 M3 and 996 Carrera are very similar cars performance-wise in the hands of the average driver - but swap the average driver for a very capable or above-average driver, and the Carrera clearly becomes the better car with respect to pure performance. in other words, its a harder car to drive near its limits, but if you're capable of driving near that limit, you'll have little problems making short work of an e46 M3 with an equally skilled driver. thus the majority of drivers (who are average at best), will perceive the M3 as the better performing car simply b/c its easier to drive near the limits, giving the driver the false sense that it actually performs better than the 996 Carrera.

similar things are already being said about the new GT-R with respect to the C6 Z06. the GT-R is supposed to be a car that ANYONE can drive fast and hard. it is supposed to achieve performance levels with a driver of particular skill level that could not be achieved in the Z06 unless its driver were even better than the driver of the GT-R. note that i am not saying that the GT-R will outperform (or even hang with) a C6 Z06. but allow an "average" driver to drive them back to back, and the GT-R will inspire more confidence b/c of its more "neutral" handling, thus giving the driver the perception that it is the better performer. now i know this is all speculation at this point, but i have confidence in this concept b/c its already been shown to be true in several "e46 M3 vs 996 Carrera" comparisons.

another example is the e46 M3 and the MKIV Supra. allow an average driver to drive these two back to back and he'll tell you that the M3 was much easier to drive and that it handled better - when in fact the M3 only seemed to handle better b/c it has a more neutral chassis and is thus easier to approach its limits than it is to approach the limits of an MKIV Supra. but allow a skilled driver [who isn't afraid to push to the limits of either car] to drive them back to back, and he'll either tell you that the Supra has the slight edge in performance, or that neither car is really a better performer than the other. again, in the hands of novice and average drivers, the M3 is "perceived" as the better performer.


moral of the story: "performance perception" not only depends on chassis neutrality, overall weight, center of gravity, etc. - it also depends heavily on individual driver skill as well as the average driver skill of a group of people - in this case millions of Americans with below-average to average driver skill, as that's who Consumer Reports caters to. regardless, to make such a large mass of people perceive its cars as the best performers is no small feat. congratulations to BMW for being able to claim such a title.

i don't disagree... but if i am AUDi, i'm not thrilled about the ranking... it may not matter to an enthusiast, but but it does to brand building.

also, i wonder, but doubt if it has anything to do with the old unintended acceleration and fire issues that plagued AuDI the 80's. my father actually had two that caught fire, another issue with audi during that period, but it got far less attention in the media as compared to the other problem.

[Year's_End]

That's what I'm saying, when people think of Audis, they think of cars spontaneously combusting. Audi needs to continuously build upon their image to get past this reputation that's been blown out of proportion.

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

That's what I'm saying, when people think of Audis, they think of cars spontaneously combusting. Audi needs to continuously build upon their image to get past this reputation that's been blown out of proportion.

agreed.... i was actually in one of the audis as it caught fire as a kid, pretty crazy.... and yet i still bought two of my own and enjoyed them both, no hang-ups.

[S4to335]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

+100

Good summation. I'm not a fan of CR personally.

My good friend is the automotive editor for Consumer Reports...I will pass that onto him.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by S4to335

My good friend is the automotive editor for Consumer Reports...I will pass that onto him.

PLease ask your friend what the best fridge is if you want the freezer on the bottom.

This is what CR is good for.....

[footie]

The problem for Audi is they don't bow to the US customer in the same way as both BMW and Mercedes do. The US guy is always looking for that added bonus in the deal, be it extra servicing, longer warranty, better trade in or a cheaper overall price. From what you guys are saying here is that Audis in the States are too dear to start with and their servicing sucks.

There clearly seems to be a difference between the way you lot are treated and the way we over here are treated.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

The problem for Audi is they don't bow to the US customer in the same way as both BMW and Mercedes do. The US guy is always looking for that added bonus in the deal, be it extra servicing, longer warranty, better trade in or a cheaper overall price. From what you guys are saying here is that Audis in the States are too dear to start with and their servicing sucks.

There clearly seems to be a difference between the way you lot are treated and the way we over here are treated.

Sorry UK service in general sucks....I used to go there for business all the time.

Us silly North Americans demand more and we have created a more competitive environment for cars....

How much is an M3 over in Ireland versus the US? And you think it is a good thing? Audi hasn't learned how to do business in the US.

[footie]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Sorry UK service in general sucks....I used to go there for business all the time.

Us silly North Americans demand more and we have created a more competitive environment for cars....

How much is an M3 over in Ireland versus the US? And you think it is a good thing? Audi hasn't learned how to do business in the US.

Servicing in Northern Ireland Audi dealers is exceptional, I haven't much experience of BMW dealers over here is it's been years since I had a BMW but I doubt it would be any worse than what I get from Audi.

Both BMW and Audi are priced very similarly, in fact Audi model to model would be slightly cheaper. I reckon in the US BMW and Mercedes because they actually build cars in the US must get an allowance on importing that Audi don't and that maybe the reason why Audi are so dear accordingly.

How much is my M3 when it comes? Roughly £55K which are the current exchange rate that $110K, but that car is quite highly specced.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by footie

Servicing in Northern Ireland Audi dealers is exceptional, I haven't much experience of BMW dealers over here is it's been years since I had a BMW but I doubt it would be any worse than what I get from Audi.

Both BMW and Audi are priced very similarly, in fact Audi model to model would be slightly cheaper. I reckon in the US BMW and Mercedes because they actually build cars in the US must get an allowance on importing that Audi don't and that maybe the reason why Audi are so dear accordingly.

How much is my M3 when it comes? Roughly £55K which are the current exchange rate that $110K, but that car is quite highly specced.

In Kanada, in my experience, Audi generally treats it customers like garbage....good luck getting an appointment for service! When I bought my A6, the owner of the dealership had to apologize because my salesman flipped out when I started pushing his buttons.

On the other had, BMW treats you extremely well. I have been a loyal customer at one BMW dealership but even when my girlfriend calls, she is treated well (with them not knowing). Even on occasion when I visit other BMW dealers, it is very professional.

Audi dealers in Canada is small-town by that I mean amateurish.

Just my experience.

[footie]

T-Bone,

No wonder you have a real downer on Audis and if I was treated the same then I possibly would be the same.

Over here the worst dealers are Italian brands (Fiat and Alfa) but the France brands aren't far behind them.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by footie

T-Bone,

No wonder you have a real downer on Audis and if I was treated the same then I possibly would be the same.

Over here the worst dealers are Italian brands (Fiat and Alfa) but the France brands aren't far behind them.

Thats not why....it's because of the understeer.

[footie]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Thats not why....it's because of the understeer.

Hi sidekick, long time no see.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by footie

Hi sidekick, long time no see.

Did you miss me? (don't answer that!)

[footie]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Did you miss me? (don't answer that!)

Sure, but now that T-Bone and me are best of pals are you jealous.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by footie

Sure, but now that T-Bone and me are best of pals are you jealous.

Didn't I see you and E90ice agreeing in some thread? It was about the 5 series flying off the runway.... That was weird.