[Draman]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Now that concept I agree with .

But you're completely wrong about my test driving, because it is actually the complete opposite. You can look through my posts back in the August 2013 timeframe and forward regarding my comments of the F30 and ATS to check. But just to recap, in August and September of 2013, I had my E90 in for analysis of the oil sensor issue that I've since documented BMW purposefully turns off the oil life monitor function at 186,000 miles. And in September I had my Hummer H3T in for repair of some rodent damage to the electrical system. So within the span of 3 weeks I had an '12 F30 335i (auto of course) as a loaner, and a '12 ATS 2.0T (auto as well) with a week in between following (so almost back-to-back) as a loaner. I drove both cars on my daily 160-mile round trip commute, which is a mix of excellent back-country roads, dual lane rural highway, and about 20 miles of stop-and-go Northern Virginia traffic. I drove each car over 900 miles and had both separately over a weekend. I found the ATS the much more engaging car to drive. It handled better, steered better, and braked better. The F30 had more power obviously, which was fun for merging on the highway, but that was about it. As far as back road work, the ATS was far more fun and enjoyable to drive. In one post on the subject I ranked the cars this way: E90 1st, ATS 2nd, and 335i 3rd. As far as the CUE and I-drive units, well I hate that level of infotainment in a car anyway, but I found both just as distracting to the purpose of driving. I've hung out on the ATS sites for awhile, and the consensus I found was that most owners found the CUE system quite good once it was mastered.

And after the August/September test drives, the next weekend I went to my BMW dealer in Charlottesville to test drive the F30 320i with a sport package and manual transmission. I found the 320i even worse than the 335i, the engine was far under powered and the chassis still had no balance. The 320i sport package was actually a bit higher priced than the ATS 2.0T with a sunroof and manual trans (the way I'd get one) since it comes with a LSD for free (something BMW doesn't even offer until you get to an M3). The sales manager in C-ville offered a $4.5K discount right off the bat to try and sell me the 320i that day, and I wasn't even interested in buying a car at the time. And when was in the market for a new car after 18 years of E30 ownership, I test drove all the cars in the segment at the time between 2004 and 2006, E46 328, Lexus IS200, MB C-class with sport package, and Audi A3, and even an X3 (with a manual transmission of course). The '06 E90 offered what I wanted.

So, yeah, I've driven a bunch of recent car as well as the new BMWs; I think the new BMWs suck compared to the BMWs I've driven for the last 27 years or so. You can also read a post I just wrote 30 minutes ago on another thread about the F30 on this subject.

And just to finish this off. I think Cadillac needed one more generation of the ATS at a price a few thousand less than a comparable BMW to win over more buyers. The current thinking to move Cadillac HQ to New York seems stupid to me (but the engineering stays with GM in Detroit), and to up-scale the pricing to BMW et.al. is a mistake in my opinion; but I don't have the creds of Johan de Nysschen has to run a car company, so I don't get to vote. I've read where Cadillac is trying to become independent from GM (chassis and engineering-wise), which seems counterintuitive to trends in the industry, where even BMW has joined forces with Toyota. But it won't be the 1st time an auto executive as f'd up an auto company.

How someone could drive an ATS 2.0T and think it's across the board superior to a BMW is beyond me. Maybe the 3.6 or whatever the uprated model is, but good lord, that 2.0 is perhaps the most unrefined engine I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing first hand. CUE is also probably the worst in car infotainment system I've ever used, but admittedly I have not used that many.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Draman

How someone could drive an ATS 2.0T and think it's across the board superior to a BMW is beyond me. Maybe the 3.6 or whatever the uprated model is, but good lord, that 2.0 is perhaps the most unrefined engine I've ever had the displeasure of experiencing first hand. CUE is also probably the worst in car infotainment system I've ever used, but admittedly I have not used that many.

I've driven both turbo 2-liters from BMW and Cadillac. AS compared to what should be in the BMW, a naturally aspirated in-line 6, both are unrefined. I think the level of engine isolation from the driver has more to do with the "refinement" character of the ATS. I think BMW decided to isolate the engine more than Cadillac did. You can hear the Cadillac's engine more, some prefer it, some don't; I do. And I didn't say "across the board" superior. I said it drove better, meaning braked, turned, steered, and stopped better. And adding price into the consideration, the equally-priced 2.0T ATS is a superior car to the 320i with a sport package and manual transmission.

As far as the infotainment stuff goes, entertainment to me is how well the car drives, and not that it has cool graphics when you switch between ECO, Comfort, and Sport modes, or that the manual is available on the screen when the car is not moving, or that you can have 29-thousdand programmed radio stations when I only really listen to four. I will say that Cadillac is totally off base when it offers CUE as an option on the Base 2.0T but you can't get nav with it; that's totally stupid. Like I said, go to the ATS forums and you'll see that most owners, once familiar with CUE, think it's a good system. I remember when I got my E90, I hated the blinker stalk operation. I now love it, and hate that my Z4 doesn't have the same stalk operation. I'd not get CUE or I-drive if given the choice.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I still have the H3T parked right next to my E90 (not sure if you are being sarcastic...). They only made 2,400 of them. I replaced my Wife's Jeep with it. I love the thing. Nothing better than a small block Chevy V-8 (well, an N52 - I've got 2 of them - is just as good); the 4-speed auto trans is the only nit I have with it. I live on a river, sometimes you need to cross through the water, the Hummer does that in spades (old-timer's saying...).

I wasn't. Brought me back to the days of cheap gas. Pretty cool you still have one, they were built off the Chevrolet Colorado platform IIRC.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I wasn't. Brought me back to the days of cheap gas. Pretty cool you still have one, they were built off the Chevrolet Colorado platform IIRC.

Thanks. Yes, off the last-gen Colorado platform. Old-GM build, but not too bad, kinda like owning a Harley. Because of the rarity it's held its value quite well. Ezra Dyer wrote a few months ago in his column that it should be considered a collectable classic; I'm good with that. Nice thing is it's rare but repairable at any GM dealer.

And regarding the ATS, I was real close to getting one last fall (September/October), but it was getting too hard to find one with a black one with manual trans and no CUE at a discounted price. I was trying to get the E90 off of daily driving duty, but realized there was no point in having two 4-door sport sedans, so I found an 2008 E86 (N52) with low miles and alternate days with both.