[DrRobert]

Thanks RVAN. I'm gonna start with an E50 tune. If still dissatisfied will reconsider the DP. Forgot to mention that wife will be pissed if car is too loud or stinky!

[RVAN]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Thanks RVAN. I'm gonna start with an E50 tune. If still dissatisfied will reconsider the DP. Forgot to mention that wife will be pissed if car is too loud or stinky!

I threw on the N54 mids to still give me cats, and to quiet it down a bit from the louder DP. Combined with an E50 tune, there is literally no difference in exhaust smell, color, or anything else from stock exhaust.

The ethanol blend really helps clean up any potential smell or color vs just 91. I too want no smoke or smell which is easily noticed as no cats.

Found someone to swap their N54 mids for free. I'm sure you can too as many people want full catless mids. I wanted the opposite, cats, just not an inch from the turbo.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by RVAN

I threw on the N54 mids to still give me cats, and to quiet it down a bit from the louder DP. Combined with an E50 tune, there is literally no difference in exhaust smell, color, or anything else from stock exhaust.

The ethanol blend really helps clean up any potential smell or color vs just 91. I too want no smoke or smell which is easily noticed as no cats.

Found someone to swap their N54 mids for free. I'm sure you can too as many people want full catless mids. I wanted the opposite, cats, just not an inch from the turbo.

Very interesting - hadn't heard of that option before. Are those E90 N54 mids you're talking about? Do you get any smell from 91 octane with that exhaust?

[RVAN]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Very interesting - hadn't heard of that option before. Are those E90 N54 mids you're talking about? Do you get any smell from 91 octane with that exhaust?

Yes I swapped the N54 mids that have two small cats to my N55 mids that have none. Plenty of people want to get rid of those catted mids.

I swapped my mids before moving to the E50 tune as I knew the path I was going down.

But on my stage 2 91 tune I could smell the richer exhaust due to the DP. The E85 blend helps clean it up as there the fuel is "cleaner" if that makes sense. Ethanol has less byproducts for lack of a better word, so you don't smell anything as it is burning much more completely than standard gas.

So 91 with no cats, yes you smell and can sometimes see it.

With N54 mids less often but sometimes can smell or see a puff or two.

With N54 mids and E30,40, or 50 blend, no smell or smoke.

Also for E85 worries. If I am somewhere with no E85 I can simply flash to a different tune, or what I've done before when driving late at night, just stay out of full throttle. Light throttle keeps you in open loop anyways and won't make a difference. But you can literally flash from a protune E50 blend back to a protune 91 tune in 30 seconds while the car is gassing up. It's that simple and quick.

Nothing like the 10 minute long flash it initially takes.

[PeterPure]

Well atleast the whp curve is flat till redline. Shows how much octane can do.

Thanks for sharing Robert.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by RIP_MKVI

Robert, you can go to this site:
http://datazap.me/upload-csv
to register an account and you can upload your excel file (.csv format) to generate a graph. Then you can click on various parameters below the graph to change the display. and you can take a screenshot and post it here.

OK, here you go. This is the log that was taken in 4th gear during the stage 2 dyno run posted at the beginning of this thread.

http://datazap.me/u/drrobert/log-144...og=0&data=4-16

[wgknestrick]

This HP is exactly what I suspected from this small of a turbo on pump gas (despite the several 500whp graphs of "max effort" pulls). This being my first foray into high compression, DI engines....had me starting to question my past experiences, and think that they just can make 100whp more than they should.

I would speculate that 400whp is probably a realistic expectation on just 93oct without that kitty on a stage 2...on a tune you can drive every day.

[Newguy123]

[QUOTE=wgknestrick;18748652]This HP is exactly what I suspected from this small of a turbo on pump gas (despite the several 500whp graphs of "max effort" pulls). This being my first foray into high compression, DI engines....had me starting to question my past experiences, and think that they just can make 100whp more than they should.

I would speculate that 400whp is probably a realistic expectation on just 93oct without that kitty on a stage 2...on a tune you can drive every day.[/Q


there was a flash only PS2 car on 93 octane that was doing 480 with no timing corr3ctions so i think more can be achieved on 91 than whats being shown..he was also FBO though

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

there was a flash only PS2 car on 93 octane that was doing 480 with no timing corr3ctions so i think more can be achieved on 91 than whats being shown..he was also FBO though

I'm sure that more could be done on 91 than this, that was not my intention with this car. Recall this is a DD and I specifically asked Dzenno not to be too aggressive with the tune. My point was to compare stage 1 to stage 2 turbos with otherwise similar hardware and with tunes done by the same person using the same approach. Not looking for any bragging rights, but rather to help anyone who might be trying to decide whether to buy a stage 1 or a stage 2 turbo. I would have appreciated this type of info when I was making my buying decision.

[motherkin]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

OK, here you go. This is the log that was taken in 4th gear during the stage 2 dyno run posted at the beginning of this thread.

http://datazap.me/u/drrobert/log-144...og=0&data=4-16

Rob, your timing corrections at WOT looks as terrible as mine, on the same shitty ACN 91
Also going through the pro-tune process on my 5th revision, max boost is around 16psi. I guess I have to start mixing some race fuel

Dzenno, do you think this tune is too aggressive given so many corrections?

[wgknestrick]

[QUOTE=Newguy123;18750475]

Originally Posted by wgknestrick

This HP is exactly what I suspected from this small of a turbo on pump gas (despite the several 500whp graphs of "max effort" pulls). This being my first foray into high compression, DI engines....had me starting to question my past experiences, and think that they just can make 100whp more than they should.

I would speculate that 400whp is probably a realistic expectation on just 93oct without that kitty on a stage 2...on a tune you can drive every day.[/Q


there was a flash only PS2 car on 93 octane that was doing 480 with no timing corr3ctions so i think more can be achieved on 91 than whats being shown..he was also FBO though

Since this N55 turbo has been reported to be based on the EFR 6258, but also having a smaller Compressor inlet Dia, I think these results are somewhat telling and fall in line with this:

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/p...ower_chart.pdf

I am very excited to see what I can do with an upgraded turbo and manifold on this engine.

[Newguy123]

[QUOTE=wgknestrick;18751193]

Originally Posted by Newguy123

Since this N55 turbo has been reported to be based on the EFR 6258, but also having a smaller Compressor inlet Dia, I think these results are somewhat telling and fall in line with this:

http://www.turbos.bwauto.com/files/p...ower_chart.pdf

I am very excited to see what I can do with an upgraded turbo and manifold on this engine.

meh that chart is off quite a bit, 21-22 psi on a PS2 will do over 500 WHEEL HORSEPOWER with FBO and proper octane....remember PURE machines the compressor housing inlets quite a bit and IIRC the comp wheel in the ps2 is bigger then 58mm....

[JETmn]

Yeah, most turbo companies rate them for their peak efficiency island. Turbos continue to make good power well above that, even if they aren't quite as efficient any more.

[AirbusPilot]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

I'm sure that more could be done on 91 than this, that was not my intention with this car. Recall this is a DD and I specifically asked Dzenno not to be too aggressive with the tune. My point was to compare stage 1 to stage 2 turbos with otherwise similar hardware and with tunes done by the same person using the same approach. Not looking for any bragging rights, but rather to help anyone who might be trying to decide whether to buy a stage 1 or a stage 2 turbo. I would have appreciated this type of info when I was making my buying decision.

Thank you for doing this, btw. Great info.

[motherkin]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

I can't believe they actually call this 91 to begin with. Having said that the cars correct at 13psi and 1deg of timing just the same as it does at 18-19psi. There's no helping it period. Stock tune in fact corrects even more, I don't see people writing letters to BMW on it asking them if its safe.

Not trying to challenge your expertise or be a smart ass here, but I just have been hearing conflicting info

From multiple reputable sources, I read that corrections on multiple cylinders at WOT is not good. I am citing what Cobb says in their Accessturner guide(https://cobb.app.box.com/s/jouk5lgozzfgk4ndfocz) - "under full throttle, consistent negative corrections across multiple cylinders or incremental corrections...is a sign that the map might be too aggressive for the mechanical condition of your vehicle"

I understand stock tune corrects too, but I wound't be as concerned because it is covered under warranty. On the other hand, while I enjoying tuning my car, I don't want to risk damaging the engine by going too aggressive

[weehe126]

He is saying the 91 oct is so bad that is causes timing corrections even on the stock tune. However, timing being pulled is bad, and I would guess that log has an avg ign around 1.5-2, which is high. I know OP wanted a mild DD tune, but with timing being pulled negative I cant say it is too safe. Better octane is needed here to run properly, we can all agree on that.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by weehe126

Better octane is needed here to run properly, we can all agree on that.

E50 tune underway.

[stari335]

Check this out. They wrote this 3 years ago working closely with Cobb to bring out the AP so we have it as an option today:

http://blog.protuningfreaks.com/2012...eliable-power/

E50 will clean those right up I bet and provide for a heck of a punch over this 91.

I wonder how JB guys feel when they can only log cylinder 1 timing. Totally flying blind on 5 out of 6 cylinders.

[g2BMW]

Originally Posted by proTUNING Freaks

ACN 91 can/does do better in some cases but Robert's case is just horrible, actually similar to 91 that some Western Canada gets. It really shouldn't be called 91, its more like 88.

PTF, just wondering, tune can also be done on 87 octane? of course for lower numbers.

[DoctoRx]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

I'm sure that more could be done on 91 than this, that was not my intention with this car. Recall this is a DD and I specifically asked Dzenno not to be too aggressive with the tune. My point was to compare stage 1 to stage 2 turbos with otherwise similar hardware and with tunes done by the same person using the same approach. Not looking for any bragging rights, but rather to help anyone who might be trying to decide whether to buy a stage 1 or a stage 2 turbo. I would have appreciated this type of info when I was making my buying decision.

Thanks for posting this as I am currently facing this exact dilemma. It would seem based off this that for DD use you're just as good getting a Stage 1 and saving a little coin if the difference is 30 HP. However, I wonder if this would translate the same with the addition of a DP.

[Newguy123]

Originally Posted by DoctoRx

Thanks for posting this as I am currently facing this exact dilemma. It would seem based off this that for DD use you're just as good getting a Stage 1 and saving a little coin if the difference is 30 HP. However, I wonder if this would translate the same with the addition of a DP.

stage 2 turbo is a lot more efficient. theres a lot more than 30whp difference on pump gas with a fbo car trust me.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by DoctoRx

Thanks for posting this as I am currently facing this exact dilemma. It would seem based off this that for DD use you're just as good getting a Stage 1 and saving a little coin if the difference is 30 HP. However, I wonder if this would translate the same with the addition of a DP.

I don't know if you can conclude that. Depends on what type of fuel you use, what other mods you have, what kind of tune, and what your overall plans for the car are. Also how much you can afford as the stage 2 costs a lot more than the stage 1. In my case Pure came out with the stage 2 right after I bought the stage 1 and I could not resist the upgrade. Pure made it easy by crediting the cost of the stage 1 towards the purchase of a stage 2 , but I had to pay for labor twice, which was not cheap. If you can afford the stage 2 I'd go ahead and take the plunge so you don't have to do what I did later. If you can't afford the stage 2 the stage 1 is a nice upgrade from stock. Unfortunately I do not have any dynos comparing the stage 1 to OEM, maybe someone else does. I am currently working on an E50 tune with Dzenno and will post another dyno on E50 once we're done with the tune and I can get back to the dyno shop.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned or explained but can be seen on the dyno is that with the stage 1 turbo there was actually more torque at lower RPMs. The car did actually feel a little snappier around town with the stage 1 than the stage 2, but out on the road the stage 2 wins hands down.

I don't have a DP but from everything I can gather yes it would make a big difference, especially with a stage 2 turbo.