[335D Alpha Pappa]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

It does, but, in petey's case, i did a custom tune for him and left the maf adjustment out(that was my mistake), thats why I had him do the dyno runs with it unplugged and plug in to see the changes, hp didnt take a hit, the tq dipped 35 less down low.

Does your tune modify the throttle valve to be open 100% all of the time?

[WreckerX5d]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

It does, but, in petey's case, i did a custom tune for him and left the maf adjustment out(that was my mistake), thats why I had him do the dyno runs with it unplugged and plug in to see the changes, hp didnt take a hit, the tq dipped 35 less down low.

Did you do the same with mine? Or was his the first one tuned that day lol.

[NC335d]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

It does, but, in petey's case, i did a custom tune for him and left the maf adjustment out(that was my mistake), thats why I had him do the dyno runs with it unplugged and plug in to see the changes, hp didnt take a hit, the tq dipped 35 less down low.

Gandolf, were you drinking too much Butter Beer the night before or was it Heather's good looks that distracted you??

[DWR]

Bob, can I assume you would also be able to remap for one of the larger HFM6 MAFs?

[Nadir Point]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I saw this as well with my filter minder. You might find this thread interesting...

Ah yes, the ol' airbox perforation approach - nice! And thanks!

[335dsleeper]

I like it. Good job

[shnaggs]

Sweet!!! Thanks Bob, you are a gentleman and a scholar!

[BEWWWM]

Bob,

Since you did my 2+ today I will be good to go if I decide to delete the maf?

[petey_highboost]

Cool. Once I do hybrids I'll ship the ecu out to Ya for the fix and the remap

[BEWWWM]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

I did this after I wrapped up on your tune. I had to get yours and two other DDE shipped today.

If mine hasn't shipped yet I would like maf to be deleted.

[tuikku]

.
Sorry to say this, but
Removing the maf is not the key for anything ...
You are already driving out of maf reading range.
Original maf reads 930 kg/hour airflow.
That means ~1290mg/stroke/4000rpm
What is good about 320hp crank power ....
I am quite sure, you have more, so ecu has already moved to pressure controlling mode. Or amount of fuel is told so in program, that calculation never reach lambda limit.
In real world, lambda-controlled system is the best.
Practically only difficult thing is to tell the amount of air right, if you can do that, ecu himself caculate the right mix and gives the power...
Only more air is needed.

I am sure that DWR has already somehow figured this out, because he is looking for bigger maf, that can read enough air ...

I haven´t ever seen the program of USA model, but here in our cars, program works, as I told above.
Nevertheless, only couple of bits define the situation, how ecu behaves in situation, when airmass reach the maf reading range.
You can chose if maf is out, map is out, or both in use, then the ecu automatically turns to read map values. It is factory setting here.

[tuikku]

.
What power do you mean, if it is not at wheel or crank ?
I do not understand.
Can you explain, why "common or usual" engine hp, that manufacturer uses, is not in use there and is not "enough" ?
What benefit does it give ?
This, your strange way to tell the amount of horsepower, and the continuous affirmation that your way is only and best, do not to inspire so much confidence to me, or here in European side.

Can you explain, why the very same car gives more power at map controlled, than it gives at maf controlled. ?

I can
There are only three possibilities.
Maf no good
More fuel in map version
It is not totally clear, how the amount of air and fuel goes inside the program.

~400hp is quite ok result.
~500 is very good, and the amount of torq shows that you have enough fuel to get that power, if comes around 4000rpm.

Me, personally do not believe so much to any kind of measurement, I like my insoric, it tells the performance on the road.
And it is even not so important, the main thing is that the car works.
My opinion is, that only when calculated and measured amount of power are ~same, only after that the result is somehow "reliable".
I have to understand, why the power is what it is.

And finally, the power comes from burning fuel, only way.
More fuel, more power.
Engine do not know, if it is maf or map controlled.
Fuel does not know either.
Same amount of fuel - same power.
So, it is impossible that there is any difference maf/map controlling, no need to measure.

[shnaggs]

Bob,

Can you recalibrate the maf? Just spit ballin here, but if we make a bigger housing and use the same eliment, but just recalibrate it. Can we then read higher air flow?

[HeatherM35d]

Ain't that America..

[DWR]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
Sorry to say this, but
Removing the maf is not the key for anything ...
You are already driving out of maf reading range.
Original maf reads 930 kg/hour airflow.

It is interesting the differences we keep finding out between the US 335d and
the rest of the world. Several of us have confirmed the US MAF reading maxes at 44.1 lb/min, or just over 1200kg/hour.

Originally Posted by tuikku

In real world, lambda-controlled system is the best.
Practically only difficult thing is to tell the amount of air right, if you can do that, ecu himself caculate the right mix and gives the power...
Only more air is needed.

When I used to tune supercharged Mustangs, I did exactly the opposite of what the EDC17 does. I would run open loop at all times with a big MAF. Essentially ignore the MAF reading for idle and cruising, then let it take over for full fueling. I could control lambda at any level I wanted. At the time, I had over 1000 pages of confidential Ford information documenting the operation of the ECU (not just list of maps), so I had an advantage over most other tuners.

Originally Posted by tuikku

I am sure that DWR has already somehow figured this out, because he is looking for bigger maf, that can read enough air ...

I haven´t ever seen the program of USA model, but here in our cars, program works, as I told above.
Nevertheless, only couple of bits define the situation, how ecu behaves in situation, when airmass reach the maf reading range.
You can chose if maf is out, map is out, or both in use, then the ecu automatically turns to read map values. It is factory setting here.

I am aware of the MAP/MAF switching, etc, but only as you describe it for EDC16. I wish I had a Functionsrahmen for the EDC17CPO9. A2L/Damos EDC17 is helpful, but not enough. Or maybe I don't know how to use it? Any lessons would be appreciated.

I do have some tricks to make a big MAF work. But my reason for it, in this application, is pretty simple. I use the MAF as a diagnostic tuning tool. If airflow is the key to horsepower, then it would seem measuring it would be helpful. Second, any restriction on the inlet side of the compressor has a far greater effect than the same restriction on the outlet side. TDIwyse's work with the airbox and Bob's with the MAF illustrates that point.

Knowing what I know, my strategy is to have the MAF switched off in the ECU and install a larger MAF for datalogging. I'll need it for wet compression experiments in the spring ...

[DWR]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
What power do you mean, if it is not at wheel or crank ?

It is at the wheels.
The point is we see correction factors that are inflated. Our transmission does not have 18% or even 15% losses under the measured conditions.

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
Can you explain, why the very same car gives more power at map controlled, than it gives at maf controlled. ?

Increased pressure ratio required due to inlet restriction is one possible reason.

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
Me, personally do not believe so much to any kind of measurement, I like my insoric, it tells the performance on the road.

Many of us agree with that, and use similar tools to measure performance. Intercooler performance is an example of why this kind of measurement is good.

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
And finally, the power comes from burning fuel, only way.
More fuel, more power.

I know you were including air with that fuel.

[tuikku]

.

You were right, it was actually a bit over 1200kg/h
Do you really need more range ?
1238kg/ means 1719 mg/stroke/4000 rpm
That airmas is enough over 420hp.
"Maf bits" looks like they are in "only maf is used" position.
Maybe Bob can confirm that.

It is winter here now, we are using winter tires, it is slippery.
Normally in my measurements power loss with automatic transmission is under 15%. That my measurement was exeption. Insoric calculates the loss automatically, I cannot do anything about it.

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by tuikku

.


You were right, it was actually a bit over 1200kg/h
Do you really need more range ?
1238kg/ means 1719 mg/stroke/4000 rpm
That airmas is enough over 420hp.
"Maf bits" looks like they are in "only maf is used" position.
Maybe Bob can confirm that.

It is winter here now, we are using winter tires, it is slippery.
Normally in my measurements power loss with automatic transmission is under 15%. That my measurement was exeption. Insoric calculates the loss automatically, I cannot do anything about it.

On PerfExpert it measures wheel power directly, and then uses a % to back calculate to the crank. The % is based on your drivetrain info you enter. It also gives you the option of plotting both wheel and crank numbers.

Back in the Hybrid Turbo thread I had posted an example of the comparison of it's wheel and crank numbers. Wheel numbers were in the mid 430's, crank it estimated low 500's.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=231

I had wanted to measure more air than the OEM limit because I wanted to do a sanity check on the horsepower numbers I was getting with PerfExpert and from back calculating dragstrip results. I measured over 52-53 lb/min, but haven't gone back and re-measured with the slightly higher boost I've been running now where I'm dancing around the EMP region that starts to unseat the valves...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...48&postcount=1

[tuikku]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

On PerfExpert it measures wheel power directly, and then uses a % to back calculate to the crank. The % is based on your drivetrain info you enter. It also gives you the option of plotting both wheel and crank numbers.

Back in the Hybrid Turbo thread I had posted an example of the comparison of it's wheel and crank numbers. Wheel numbers were in the mid 430's, crank it estimated low 500's.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=231

I had wanted to measure more air than the OEM limit because I wanted to do a sanity check on the horsepower numbers I was getting with PerfExpert and from back calculating dragstrip results. I measured over 52-53 lb/min, but haven't gone back and re-measured with the slightly higher boost I've been running now where I'm dancing around the EMP region that starts to unseat the valves...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...48&postcount=1

We have almost same power loss, mine a bit smaller.
You have clearly more power and torque. If I understood right.
You are already the line, I dream to reach.
With smaller turbo and boost and back pressure.
Also your usable revs goes noticeably higher than my car.
Only true mod is external wastegate.
I am impressed.
I need that water/methanol system quickly.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by tuikku

I need that water/methanol system quickly.

You will be impressed. And you have an advantage with solenoid injection. I'll explain in another post, if you like.

[DWR]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

One thing I want to show

Stock 335D Crank HP 286
using this calculator --> http://www.mk5cortinaestate.co.uk/calculator4.php
Gives an HP output of 236, check the dynosheet below using SAE correction

Bob, US spec 335d is 265 crank HP.
That calculator will come close if you select a manual transmission. Our automatics have low loss, part of their fuel savings contribution.

[tuikku]

.
It seems clearly, that I am arguing about horse powers with strange people...
This must be a very important subject and definitely I have to be proud of all my posts, though I do not recognise me any more...