[RVAN]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Yep, weird. You have stock turbo and fueling?

Yes. Haven't seen the need to upgrade the fuel pump on the stock turbo, and not sure I want to upgrade turbos with all the problems people have tuning them.

[houtan]

Yeah, flash tuning has been really inconsistent on ethanol blends for the N55. I have only seen consistent results running ethanol using the JB4. But, hopefully Dzenno will figure it out!

[olivojoe]

Originally Posted by houtan

Yeah, flash tuning has been really inconsistent on ethanol blends for the N55. I have only seen consistent results running ethanol using the JB4. But, hopefully Dzenno will figure it out!

Yeah mine was terrible until I got the N20 plugs. All is good now though, not sure what is different with mine.

I will say early on in the tuning with PTF I had an issue with hard limp modes, and after a while of playing with the tune and checking under the hood I realized that my VRSF charge pipe wasn't correctly mated to the engine block where it connects. Once I got it clicked in properly, the 93 pump tune started working better but not perfect. I know it is a no brainer and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence on here, but make sure there aren't any connections that could be causing a small boost leak at high loads That being said though, the thing that solved the problems for the 93 pump and E50 tunes was the N20 plugs.

[CantCatchMe]

Originally Posted by olivojoe

Yeah mine was terrible until I got the N20 plugs. All is good now though, not sure what is different with mine.

I will say early on in the tuning with PTF I had an issue with hard limp modes, and after a while of playing with the tune and checking under the hood I realized that my VRSF charge pipe wasn't correctly mated to the engine block where it connects. Once I got it clicked in properly, the 93 pump tune started working better but not perfect. I know it is a no brainer and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence on here, but make sure there aren't any connections that could be causing a small boost leak at high loads That being said though, the thing that solved the problems for the 93 pump and E50 tunes was the N20 plugs.

If it makes you feel better, I had the same issues on my E50 map from Wedge. I ended up quitting and going with a JB4, I will however eventually try it again with the N20 plugs for sure. I assume that's what caused some issues up stop for me after many revisions.

[houtan]

Wonder why the n20 plugs are needed flash only and not on the jb4

[Cory S]

Surprised a colder plug would help a mis-fire situation with an Ethanol blend. Usually when running Ethanol blends above 50%, a factory heat range plug works best in the high compression domestic V8 world... Wonder what other contributing factors might be there...

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Cory S

Surprised a colder plug would help a mis-fire situation with an Ethanol blend. Usually when running Ethanol blends above 50%, a factory heat range plug works best in the high compression domestic V8 world... Wonder what other contributing factors might be there...

Check out pisty13 here http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1224377

[Boosted2000Si]

Originally Posted by RVAN

I just ran a new log as well on an E50 PTF tune trying to dial out wot misfires and limp modes. This run came out clean.

http://datazap.me/u/rvangieson/e85-d...7-268&mark=234

How is that a clean log?

That log looks like shit to me. You are running to lean and pulling timing because its knocking. Basically a recipe for a blown motor.

[Boosted2000Si]

Originally Posted by olivojoe

Yeah mine was terrible until I got the N20 plugs. All is good now though, not sure what is different with mine.

I will say early on in the tuning with PTF I had an issue with hard limp modes, and after a while of playing with the tune and checking under the hood I realized that my VRSF charge pipe wasn't correctly mated to the engine block where it connects. Once I got it clicked in properly, the 93 pump tune started working better but not perfect. I know it is a no brainer and I don't mean to insult anyone's intelligence on here, but make sure there aren't any connections that could be causing a small boost leak at high loads That being said though, the thing that solved the problems for the 93 pump and E50 tunes was the N20 plugs.

Where the pipe mates with the engine block? Are you talking where the stock one was bolted down?

The pipe runs from the cold side of the IC to the TB. The TB is attached to an IM thats attached to the head and is bolted to the block. At no point have I seen or heard of an aftermarket CP being mated to the block.

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Boosted2000Si

How is that a clean log?

That log looks like shit to me. You are running to lean and pulling timing because its knocking. Basically a recipe for a blown motor.

what? that is a clean log. the AFR is ROCK SOLID at 12.6. What knock? Are you calling timing corrections knock? Those timing corrections are completely normal on an n55 flash tune.

[Boosted2000Si]

Originally Posted by houtan

what? that is a clean log. the AFR is ROCK SOLID at 12.6. What knock? Are you calling timing corrections knock? Those timing corrections are completely normal on an n55 flash tune.

Timing corrections are normal? DO you know why they have timing corrections? Because it detects knock. It pulls timing because of that. If it was normal then why have a timing correction at all? The correction is the reduction of timing because its advanced to far causing knock.


Since when is 12.6 a good A/F on a boosted motor?

Please school me, as I read that log, it looks like to much timing advance and not enough fuel. You call that "Rock Solid"

[houtan]

Originally Posted by Boosted2000Si

Timing corrections are normal? DO you know why they have timing corrections? Because it detects knock. It pulls timing because of that. If it was normal then why have a timing correction at all? The correction is the reduction of timing because its advanced to far causing knock.


Since when is 12.6 a good A/F on a boosted motor?

Please school me, as I read that log, it looks like to much timing advance and not enough fuel. You call that "Rock Solid"

I guess you should stop driving your car, because it has timing corrections all over the place from the factory. Per your logic, it might blow up: http://blog.protuningfreaks.com/2012...eliable-power/

You need to do a little more reading about the motor in your car. I have no interest or the time to school you, school yourself.

He is in the hands of one of the best flash tuners for our platform and I know that is a clean log.

[weehe126]

Boosted, N55s like to be lean. You can go read about it on any of the forums. A mid 12s AFR is ideal for these engines. People running high power are closer to 13. As for timing corrections, when I run map 4 (stock) on JB4 i get 1.5-2 average timing pull. When I run map 6 (targeting 20psi) I get 1.5-2 average timing pull. Same fuel, same pulls.

[olivojoe]

Originally Posted by Boosted2000Si

Where the pipe mates with the engine block? Are you talking where the stock one was bolted down?

The pipe runs from the cold side of the IC to the TB. The TB is attached to an IM thats attached to the head and is bolted to the block. At no point have I seen or heard of an aftermarket CP being mated to the block.

Yes, I was talking about where it mates to the throttle body.

[Unklejoe]

Originally Posted by Boosted2000Si

Timing corrections are normal? DO you know why they have timing corrections? Because it detects knock. It pulls timing because of that. If it was normal then why have a timing correction at all? The correction is the reduction of timing because its advanced to far causing knock.


Since when is 12.6 a good A/F on a boosted motor?

Please school me, as I read that log, it looks like to much timing advance and not enough fuel. You call that "Rock Solid"

Since cars started coming with direct injection.

Normally, for a port injection car, ~11.5 is where you want to be (as you probably know). That's where I tuned my friend's turbo LSx Mustang (797 whp on straight 93 octane, no meth ), and that's where I tuned my 2002 Turbo Maxima (374 whp on 7psi). But I digress...

For a DI car, things are a little different. I believe that the better atomization and the fact that the fuel gets sprayed directly on top of the piston allows for better cooling. Considering that the main purpose of a rich ratio is to cool the cylinder, it makes sense why you could lean it out a little.

There are some areas on my N55 logs that are under full load with a 14.X AFR and no timing corrections.

As far as timing corrections go, I agree that it's a little weird how they work on this platform. Normally, you want no timing corrections, because it means that the ECU is detecting knock. However, on the N54/N55 platforms, it's completely normal to see a degree or two.

My guess is that maybe the ECU naturally has over-advanced timing and relies on the timing correction loop to converge to the optimal timing. It doesn't sit right with me, because this essentially means that the ECU is "bouncing off of" the knock sensors, but who knows.

What I do know is that even stock load cars can have timing corrections with good fuel.

Maybe someone can shed some light on why this is how it works.

[Unklejoe]

Originally Posted by weehe126

Boosted, N55s like to be lean. You can go read about it on any of the forums. A mid 12s AFR is ideal for these engines. People running high power are closer to 13. As for timing corrections, when I run map 4 (stock) on JB4 i get 1.5-2 average timing pull. When I run map 6 (targeting 20psi) I get 1.5-2 average timing pull. Same fuel, same pulls.

I think the reason the higher power people are actually running leaner ratios is either because they're trying to stop misfires (spark blowout maybe), or because the fuel system simply can't keep up.

Normally, you'd run richer as power goes up (regardless of how lean the "base" AFR is).

I'm sure there's a reason that I'm not aware of. Interested to know.

[houtan]

Olivojoe, any updates? Is your car still running perfect on e50?

[olivojoe]

Originally Posted by houtan

Olivojoe, any updates? Is your car still running perfect on e50?

Yes sir, no complaints!

It did give me a few hiccups the other day getting on the interstate with some erratic throttle at lower speeds, but I did not have the DCT turned off, so I think the ECU just cut power because it downshifted to 2nd around 30 mph while in a slight turn. Other than that its been good.

However, the Achilles heel to my tune has always been erratic partial throttle situations. In the past I have had tunes that ran perfect in WOT pulls, but would get hard limp mode failures in partial throttle. So just to be sure, I plan on running a couple of logs in these situations and shooting them over to Dzenno to look them over. I will try to remember to post them here also.

[houtan]

I had partial throttle issues as well. Going 60 mph, if I went part throttle to accelerate , my car would go, then fall flat on its face, then go, then downshift, then it would go back and forth between acceleration and falling flat on its face. Happens in auto or manual mode. Is that what happens to you?

I would definitely email dzenno because I don't think he's been getting a lot of feedback when this is occurs . The logs look great WOT, but the drivability is not good enough. I have been working with him on fixing the issue and we are 95% there. Only thing left is ignition advance on the last 600 rpms drops from 5 to 2 degrees for some reason. Not the end of the world since I would shift earlier for max performance, but for me the tune should run correctly throughout the rev band.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by houtan

I had partial throttle issues as well. Going 60 mph, if I went part throttle to accelerate , my car would go, then fall flat on its face, then go, then downshift, then it would go back and forth between acceleration and falling flat on its face. Happens in auto or manual mode. Is that what happens to you?

I had the same trouble even on E30 w/ PS2 turbo and stock fueling, often leading to hard limps. Dzenno could not tune it away without fueling system upgrades that I did not want to do, and trying to tune it was an exercise in frustration. I am now running a 50:50 blend of 101 octane unleaded race gas and 91 octane. Dzenno was able to tune for that, just finished the tune a couple days ago and so far the results are awesome.

[Cory S]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

I had the same trouble even on E30 w/ PS2 turbo and stock fueling, often leading to hard limps. Dzenno could not tune it away without fueling system upgrades that I did not want to do, and trying to tune it was an exercise in frustration. I am now running a 50:50 blend of 101 octane unleaded race gas and 91 octane. Dzenno was able to tune for that, just finished the tune a couple days ago and so far the results are awesome.

Any Dyno numbers?

[houtan]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

I had the same trouble even on E30 w/ PS2 turbo and stock fueling, often leading to hard limps. Dzenno could not tune it away without fueling system upgrades that I did not want to do, and trying to tune it was an exercise in frustration. I am now running a 50:50 blend of 101 octane unleaded race gas and 91 octane. Dzenno was able to tune for that, just finished the tune a couple days ago and so far the results are awesome.

Awesome. Looking forward to seeing the logs!!