[raptor_f22]

Originally Posted by peter2704

just checked my front lower sus arms , the big rubber bush is quite soft,wondering if this is my issue? can we fit better ones M3? any part numbers? the front lower rear rod seems ok/firm

good question

[peter2704]

update,bought 2 TRW M3 tension arms £49 each,fitted one today (1hr) and what a difference !! wobble gone and the front feels tight again.Will do the other side tomorrow ,cannot recommend this mod/upgrade enough.By just fitting the tension arms they are the same length as standard arms,only if you fit the control M3 arms then they are shorter and a serious geo is needed.

[ade146]

For raptor who asked for further info on brake disc deposits have a look at the following link. There is more information out there but this will start you of

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

[raptor_f22]

Originally Posted by ade146

For raptor who asked for further info on brake disc deposits have a look at the following link. There is more information out there but this will start you of

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...nd-other-myths

This is interesting especially as it's written in the first person and i've found an almost identical transcript on at least 3 different manufacturers' websites. I'd like to know who this mysterious expert is!

Don't disagree with the analysis, it's just a little difficult to find evidence for the disk deposits without taking the wheels off and doing an inspection. I reverted to google images to see what people had posted as signs of pad deposits on their disks but couldn't see anything similar on mine (wheels on inspection)

This bit though, "Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. "

Almost impossible to do with an automatic under certain driving conditions and if the previous owner got pads and discs changed but didn't break them in properly you're in a world of hurt...which is what I think's happened with mine.

Thanks for posting the link, much appreciated

[raptor_f22]

Originally Posted by peter2704

update,bought 2 TRW M3 tension arms £49 each,fitted one today (1hr) and what a difference !! wobble gone and the front feels tight again.Will do the other side tomorrow ,cannot recommend this mod/upgrade enough.By just fitting the tension arms they are the same length as standard arms,only if you fit the control M3 arms then they are shorter and a serious geo is needed.

Car is in with TWG, waiting to hear back from them on whether the control arms/tension rods/bushes are gone. Might suggest this mod if it is them. How are the M3 tension rods different to the standard 330d setup?

Thanks

[abeardo83]

which one is the tension arm, and which one is the control arm??? I'm confused!

[raptor_f22]

Interestingly enough yesterday I got a Mercedes C200 petrol automatic as a hire car....guess what...brake judder! This is a brand new car with less than 5000 miles on the clock. I think more evidence that it's pad deposits as I doubt discs, bushes, control arms etc would fail at such an early stage.
As others have pointed out on the forum, I think not wearing the pads in is made worse on autos as the brake pedal remains pressed when stationary.

On another note - I wouldn't recommend anyone buy the C200, horrifically underpowered for a car it's size. Go for the C300/350 with AMG pack which my friend has. Totally different animal altogether. Interiors on these are beautiful.

[raptor_f22]

Aaaaand another twist to the plot lol. Got the car back from TWG today.
Control arms and front discs pads all perfectly fine - front anti roll bushes could do with changing so I'll get them done at Will's advice.
However Will strongly suspects that the juddering is coming from the rear brakes and pads which I had replaced a few months ago.
Will have to go back to LB Auto and see if Leigh can do a run out test and if necessary ask for replacement rear brakes under warranty.
*sigh* it never ends...

[Aragorn30d]

Simple question, did the judder go away or change when the rear brakes were fitted?

If not, its not the rear brakes.

Mine judders, i replaced all the brakes and it still judders. My moneys on the control arms, despite the fact it sailed thru its MOT last month without a mention of them.

[raptor_f22]

I think it changed - certainly got much worse since I had them changed and first got the car. I don't think the rear bushes were checked so could be them or the control arms.

A bit baffled and now with very little budget left to replace more parts. The brand new merc with the same problem I drove for the last two days has thrown me off too

It's tempting to just leave it and live with it but that would be a bad idea...

[ade146]

Raptor its no bad thing being suspicious of information scattered on the net but I do think its pretty valid.
I have on one or two occasions solved brake judder by getting the brakes smoking hot but l mean smoking. Most of the time Ive had to change the discs. Some engineers I respect believe that the hot spots caused by deposits cause a metallurgic change. Ive not properly researched this aspect but it doesnt seem unreasonable.
None of the above precludes the fact that steering judder can be caused by a huge variety of issues. Brakes only being one of the them but probably one of the most common.
I do around 12 rallies a year at national level and it can be a problem for us even though we use separate bells from the discs and very hard pads. Sometimes they clean up again if we can get them past the point of judder. It isnt a common problem with a competition car but it does happen.
My BMW on the other hand has had it a few times, solved by fitting larger brakes and by being ultra careful when stopped.

[raptor_f22]

Ade - Haha I suppose my post sounded quite cynical reading it back. Wasn't doubting the info, was just wondering what the real source of it all was.
thanks for sharing your experience, I feel like personally im at a bit of a crossroads.
I will get in touch with Leigh who did my rear brakes but feel like it might end up a case of garage 1 vs garage 2 with me being caught in the middle getting bounced around. Lots of time and money being taken up.
Very frustrating. Wish I had my own ramp and tools to take a look.

[peter2704]

Originally Posted by abeardo83

which one is the tension arm, and which one is the control arm??? I'm confused!

tension arm on the front lower with the big bush on the end, attached to front most part of subframe,control arm at the rear with smaller bush onto subframe.M3 CONTROL arms shorter,hence you need a geo after fitting them.

[peter2704]

OK, M3 arms helped reduce the vibration greatly,but noticed I still have a slight vibe through brake pedal and a little on steering.Checked the front discs as they were new in oct 2015,and found them to be 7 thou out of true,maybe this would cause the vibes ??

[raptor_f22]

Update: as predicted, turned into garage 1 vs garage 2. Can't say anything more constructive than that at the moment but hoping to get a resolution in the next few weeks.

On an aside, will post my pics today (on a separate thread) of the two shocks that were replaced alongside the swirl flaps, seals, glow plugs etc in case anyone is interested.

[mjn77]

Originally Posted by peter2704

OK, M3 arms helped reduce the vibration greatly,but noticed I still have a slight vibe through brake pedal and a little on steering.Checked the front discs as they were new in oct 2015,and found them to be 7 thou out of true,maybe this would cause the vibes ??

IIRC, anything more that 4 thou can be felt through the brake pedal.