[calleballe]

Originally Posted by noro

Suze Orman is actually a quite small minded individual. She gained her popularity by preaching very well know facts in the beginning and as time went on she "thought" that she is in fact proposing advise that is unique and good. If you only goal in life is to save money she is probable the best adviser you can find.

+100, She is pathetic and her advice common sense. The scary thing though is that she can make a living from things that should be know to all. The U.S. public is however largely uneducated. Look at all foreclosed houses. Look at all people in credit card debt. Keeping up with the Jones's syndrome etc.

[BMdblU]

Originally Posted by achenator

She says to keep your car for 9 years. Yeah, right. She is one of those people who looks at a car as an appliance, to get from a to b. I love cars and always will have a decent ride.

Of course most of us on this forum don't see it that way. But she is not wrong in that regard. If you are going to purchase, keeping it 7-9 years is the best way to get your moneys worth. If you keep it say, 3-4 years, you have taken the initial hit for the next owner.

[toofasttooslow]

My problem has always been that I never could stay in a car more than a couple years. In fact after the first 6 months the honeymoon was over and I was bored. I just might stay in this one awhile longer however.

[calleballe]

Originally Posted by gum5h03

My problem has always been that I never could stay in a car more than a couple years. In fact after the first 6 months the honeymoon was over and I was bored. I just might stay in this one awhile longer however.

This is why you buy 3 or more rides, that way, you never get bored and you can own them long enough to keep the cost of depreciation down. Even better, buy them all slightly used.

Ideal stable: Carrera 4S, E90 335, XC70AWD and a TT roadster.

[beefybmer]

If she really wanted to be of service or value to all of her readers, she would write a column with the pros and cons of both leasing and financing. Not just a one sided rant! I'm done.

[nasdakboy]

Ah Suze Orman. I was a trader for 5 years and worked down on Wall Street. Not many people even at the financial capital of the world thought she had half a brain and when she had her show (not sure if she still does), it was quite upsetting to see all the poor advice she gave. The woman is a joke

[.:bHd:.]

what a dumb bieettchhh

[cryptkeeper]

If I made as much as she probably does to give advice I'd buy my cars too. The depreciation wouldn't even be an issue. I'm just assuming she's making well into the high six figures if not more that is.

[nasdakboy]

Originally Posted by cryptkeeper

If I made as much as she probably does to give advice I'd buy my cars too. The depreciation wouldn't even be an issue. I'm just assuming she's making well into the high six figures if not more that is.

Probably more with her book sales. The problem is she always gives a one sided scenario which can be best for some people, but never the majority. She should really clarify what would be the best options for people in different types of situation. Gives alot of poor advice to those on the other side of the coin and the sad part is they listen to the woman when they could've been better off doing something else.

[toofasttooslow]

Originally Posted by calleballe

This is why you buy 3 or more rides, that way, you never get bored and you can own them long enough to keep the cost of depreciation down. Even better, buy them all slightly used.

Ideal stable: Carrera 4S, E90 335, XC70AWD and a TT roadster.

Only one problem with that theory...marriage

[The Cleaner]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

Like the person above you... your both confused.. You dont own the car either... The bank still does.. The only way you really "own" a car is if you fully paid it off with no loan or no monthly payment..

I see where you are going but you actually begin to own a percentage of the car as soon as you are not upside down. It is also an asset at that time and a lease is a 100% open ended liability from day one to the day it ends. You have a very long list of things you will be forced to pay for if you do not take care of the lease companies property. Honestly a lease is not designed for the consumer to get the best side of the deal, it's a fair deal but not without a potential additional bill at the end of the term.

I am not saying either is better, in fact if I was not keeping my car for the full loan period I would lease.

[beefybmer]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

I see where you are going but you actually begin to own a percentage of the car as soon as you are not upside down. It is also an asset at that time and a lease is a 100% open ended liability from day one to the day it ends. You have a very long list of things you will be forced to pay for if you do not take care of the lease companies property. Honestly a lease is not designed for the consumer to get the best side of the deal, it's a fair deal but not without a potential additional bill at the end of the term.

I am not saying either is better, in fact if I was not keeping my car for the full loan period I would lease.

Consumers seem to be hung up on the "potential damages" they will have to pay when they turn in their lease. I turned in a 3 series last August and it had bald tires, multiple paint chips on the hood and a slightly scratched rim. My wife took average care of it. Guess how much we had to pay......$400 for 4 new tires because that is what bmw charges for 16" tires on a lease turn in. The inspector ignored the rest because it was considered "normal wear and tear".

My point is if you have damage (dents, large scratches, broken items etc..) you will pay for them on a lease return BUT......YOU WILL ALSO PAY FOR THEM IF YOU OWNED THE VEHICLE BECAUSE THE DEALER IS GOING TO DEDUCT THEM FROM THE TRADE IN VALUE. Either way you will pay! They have to be fixed for the next buyer in both cases.

It is the same for over milage or high miles-the car takes a hit in depreciation.

It's common sensical!

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

I see where you are going but you actually begin to own a percentage of the car as soon as you are not upside down.

Unfortunately in our society now thats wrong as well. I'd like you to come in and tell the guy I was involved in evicting from a property he owned for 20 years and had equity in the house, that he truly owned his property. NOPE, taken just like that because he defaulted on the remainder of his loan.

In all honesty nothing is 100% yours until it is 100% paid for in full. The LCD TV and BlueRay player floating on your AMEX that is 60% paid for, NOPE still not yours. Your BMW that is financed as opposed to leased and you are in the remaining 20/mo of your loan, NOPE still not yours, actually neither would be.

Do you really think you'll have a leg to stand on if you stopped paying on your finance any differently then a lease just because you have some equity in your financed vehicle and the next guy has none in his lease. NO, both of you are in the same boat, both being bent over by the lenders.

Not saying that anyone would stop paying for a car but think of it this way as well. You've paid 75% of your $40K w/no downpayment car loan and still owe say $10K on the loan and want to sell it. Now your car is worth $20k. You get that $20k and then have to pay the $10k of the loan of so you only pocketed $10K. Now where did that $10k come from. Not selling your precious financed car, actually from your pocket in a roundabout way. You payed the money on the loan and just got some of the money back that you payed, so of the overall $30k you spent on the life of the loan you only received $10k of it back after selling, so you lost $20k over that lifespan.

Last I check typical BMW leases are for only around $15K of payments over the 3 years. So you would have actually been 5k ahead by leasing, keeping all things relative and having no turn in payments, maintenance costs, etc. on either cars.

So unless you cut a check for 100% of your cars worth before leaving the dealer that car will never be 100% yours until it is 100% paid for. This is why there are 2 sides to everything because 1 choice is never always 100% the right choice.

[The Cleaner]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

Unfortunately in our society now thats wrong as well. I'd like you to come in and tell the guy I was involved in evicting from a property he owned for 20 years and had equity in the house, that he truly owned his property. NOPE, taken just like that because he defaulted on the remainder of his loan.

In all honesty nothing is 100% yours until it is 100% paid for in full. The LCD TV and BlueRay player floating on your AMEX that is 60% paid for, NOPE still not yours. Your BMW that is financed as opposed to leased and you are in the remaining 20/mo of your loan, NOPE still not yours, actually neither would be.

Do you really think you'll have a leg to stand on if you stopped paying on your finance any differently then a lease just because you have some equity in your financed vehicle and the next guy has none in his lease. NO, both of you are in the same boat, both being bent over by the lenders.

Not saying that anyone would stop paying for a car but think of it this way as well. You've paid 75% of your $40K w/no downpayment car loan and still owe say $10K on the loan and want to sell it. Now your car is worth $20k. You get that $20k and then have to pay the $10k of the loan of so you only pocketed $10K. Now where did that $10k come from. Not selling your precious financed car, actually from your pocket in a roundabout way. You payed the money on the loan and just got some of the money back that you payed, so of the overall $30k you spent on the life of the loan you only received $10k of it back after selling, so you lost $20k over that lifespan.

Last I check typical BMW leases are for only around $15K of payments over the 3 years. So you would have actually been 5k ahead by leasing, keeping all things relative and having no turn in payments, maintenance costs, etc. on either cars.

So unless you cut a check for 100% of your cars worth before leaving the dealer that car will never be 100% yours until it is 100% paid for. This is why there are 2 sides to everything because 1 choice is never always 100% the right choice.

You still own a percentage of the car when you are no longer upside down, that does not change in your examples. For deadbeats and losers that don't pay the loan there is no contingency, they loss.

[The Cleaner]

Originally Posted by beefybmer

Consumers seem to be hung up on the "potential damages" they will have to pay when they turn in their lease.

The stipulations of the return are outlined in the contract, that kinda makes it more than a hang up. If a dealer chooses to live by the letter of the contract there can be trouble. I have read these stories far to often on the forums.

[beefybmer]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

The stipulations of the return are outlined in the contract, that kinda makes it more than a hang up. If a dealer chooses to live by the letter of the contract there can be trouble. I have read these stories far to often on the forums.

Of course they are outlined in the contract. In fact I have a copy in front of me. If the dealer choses to live by the letter of the law it is excessive wear and tear as stated which includes:

Inoperative electrical or mechanical parts
dented, scratched, chipped, rusted, pitted, broken or mismatched body parts/paint, trim or grill work
non-functioning, scratched, cracked, pitted or broken glass or lights
missing equipment, parts, accessories
torn, damaged, burned or stained interior
.....and the last three are extreme and I am tired of typing!

Again, if you were to trade a vehicle with these types of damages it will be deducted from your trade in value. I have appraised many vehicles. The dealer has to account for these damages and get them fixed to resell it. If you believe that the dealer is eating the damage you are only kidding yourself but this may help you sleep better at night.

Again, you will pay either way!

[jwed335i]

Ignorance is BLISS!

[aob]

Interesting thing i heard when leasing my last car and talking to one of my buddies who lives in Seattle.

Leasing can also be better or worse based on the state you live in because of sales tax rules.

For example - in CA, you have to pay 8.5% every time you buy a new car. That 's $4200. If you're buying a new car every 3 years, that's $120 in tax you're paying every month. If you lease, you only pay taxes on your payments, which is less then half of that (around $2500).

However - in Washington state, when you buy a new car and trade in your old one, you only pay taxes on the difference between you're new car value and the value of the trade-in. So, this negates any of the tax benefit from leasing in Washington.

I think it's true but would love to hear from anyone in the PNW.

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by aob

However - in Washington state, when you buy a new car and trade in your old one, you only pay taxes on the difference between you're new car value and the value of the trade-in. So, this negates any of the tax benefit from leasing in Washington.

I think it's true but would love to hear from anyone in the PNW.

I'm pretty sure that's how it works everywhere. I know that's how it works in FL. IMO, it doesn't negate any tax benefit since you're only paying the tax on the portion of the car you 'used' anyways.

[voltron1011]

That article was so terribly written.. So one sided....
I agree with darkcloud above..

[Heat00]

lease is great for my wife for example. If you don't go over the mileage, why not lease?

If you leased a brand new 750il whatever, $90,000 car and drove it for the term of the lease that they are offering, lets say 36 months and it costs $1100/month, it cost you a total of $39,600 and you give the car back, done.

If you bought that same car for $90,000 and drove it for 36 months, went to sell it, my guess is that it will not be worth more than $50,000, in fact it will probably be under that..especially in today's market of used cars... check the auction sites lately, values of used cars are way down right now, people are not buying and can't afford big $$ on used cars

so in that case, Why buy it??
It does allow you to afford a more expensive car than you could afford to purchase, so what is wrong with that??

all that being said, I drive 35,000/ year so there is no lease in my past or future, I have to just suck it up and take the hit every 2 years or less sometimes and get a new car. just a cost of doing business and using the car for business...

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by The Cleaner

You still own a percentage of the car when you are no longer upside down, that does not change in your examples. For deadbeats and losers that don't pay the loan there is no contingency, they loss.

Sure you own a percentage. But they still own the majority. It actually doesn't matter if you own 99.9% of it, you default on that last .01% and they'll still run you through the ringer. They don't care, hasn't the recent housing market shown that lenders don't car, you think that's different in auto loans? It only matters until you 100% own the object, car, whatever.

Originally Posted by voltron1011

That article was so terribly written.. So one sided....
I agree with darkcloud above..

Thats right