[Kev]

Originally Posted by NYCGarbagePrince

$400 Hotchkiss Sway set up
$1600 KWv3
$1600 LSD (Un-Welded Diff Price)

Looks like $3600 + installation for a car that handles better than a M3 and well looks very very similar to all car owners besides us that own a BMW. And that M3 needs new suspension to lower its CoG a bit, if you didn't notice it is a bit bulky. Does this mean the 335i is better? No, not necessarily. But if you are gonna sit and tell me it will never be better at handling I think you are wrong.

Throw some camber plates in and reinforced lower suspension control arm in and you're golden. That's still wouldn't exceed 5K or so, installed.

Let's put this out there right off the bat: The M3 is in a class of its own.

It's a really fun car out of the box, fast and nimble. If you like a high-revving engine and take every corner to the limit of the car, M3 is a good car for you. Notice that the track argument in the US does not really apply, coz once you track your M3, you lose your warranty. I can do the same with the 335i modified.

Look-wise I'm not so sure. I thought the E46 M3 definitely looks better than the E46 coupes, but I can't say for sure in the case of E92 335i vs E92 M3. I'm not a fan of the front and rear bumpers, front looks a little too AMG with the outward flare of the front lower intake, and rear looks a little too riced out. Alright, let's not go to the hood bulge + vents, and front fenders (atrocious IMHO). Overall, it looks like a kid that's buffed up on 'roids. The classiness of the 3 have been overwhelmed by the aggressive image that BMW / M Div trying to create.

Basically, you could a get comparable for less money if you're willing to take the risk and mod the car. So, the bottomline is still "follow your heart".

Honestly, I could have picked either one (E92 M3 vs E92 335xi) in my recent purchase, but I went with the 335xi once more because: 1. I know I would need AWD for work anyways and this is my only mode of transport; 2. I can safely modified the 335 to make it perform reasonably well compared to an M3; & 3. I'm not a big fan of the styling of the new M3s.

[Jim M3]

The power under the curve of the 335i would be a distinct advantage on the race track. I track my M3 with a CF supercharger 437 at the wheels and I still see Corvette's walk me on the exits of corners. Torque wins on the track, especially when it is in the right place like the 335i's is.

As for the aftermarket you could easily put on some Moton shocks and have a car that handle better than any M3 the factory puts out. My stock M3 handled like crap compared to what it handles like now with the TC Kline suspension.

You can always improve on a stock suspension. I own an M3 and a 335i, I wouldn't be suprised at all with a some tuning if my 335i could beat my E36 M3 even with all the power it has.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by j28s

Regarding the above post from NYCGarbage...$3600+install for a car that handles better than an M3. PLEASE!
FIRST - look at what the M3 has to offer - electronic dampening suspension, M double clutch, 414 HP, wider tires, 14.2" front, 13.8" rear vented brakes, variable M LSD, 3,725 lbs, drag is .031, a bit better front/rear balance but perfect L/R and just about perfect for each corner, blah blah blah.
SECOND - look at the 335 - No LSD but you can buy one...will total around $2500+, 13.7" front, 13.2" rear brakes (but you can add bigger brakes), drag is .30, smaller tires/wheels, but you can add bigger wheels, M3 has better suspension, but you can add coilovers and swaybars, less power but you can add some V2 or something else...but no more warranty. BLAH BLAH BLAH

So...now lets theoritically go to the track...five laps and the 335i is going in limp mode. M3...still cruising with no issues...and faster because of the way the car was originally designed, better brakes, better transmission, better clutch (and don't say the automatic in the 335i is "FASTER" on the track), power is made higher in the RPMs, so you can get more full power out of the turn and not have to worry as much about wheel spin as the 335i...remember carbonfiber roof...hood...blah blah blah. I say this because I have a 335i with UCC adjustable swaybars, PSS9 coilovers, corner weighted, blah blah blah. I've taken my car to the track and I know what it will do and what it won't do.
Yes, I am saying the 335i will not be a better handling car...you can only add so much to handle just as good as the M3...until the M3 is also upgraded with parts and...oh...but that's another story.

Honestly and seriously, how often do you get to FULLY UTILIZE those gadgets that you listed in day to day driving? Let's see, in my E55 AMG, I had a V8 Supercharged engine putting out 493bhp, 8-piston front, and 4-piston rear Brembo calipers on my E55 with 2 piece Evosport rotors, AIRMATIC suspension, a stupid slush box. The point is, the car manufacturers add all these "race-inspired" technology to the car to boost the prestige image / perceived value of the car. However, how much of those you can use is really questionable. You might think that you can fully utilize those, but I'd invest those money on a performance driving course and learn how to fully utilize my car.

[e46e92love]

Just admit it, everyone in here who thinks our cars are faster or better than M3's because of few runs between drivers who no one knows and with no video proof or proper controls to make sure everything is even is on crack.

Get over it people, our cars are nothing more than cruisers with some speed, they ain't M's, or RS's or R8's or porches or any other sports car. Its normal f***ing 3'er with twin turbos strapped to her.

I understand some people want to talk about how great their car is, but thats because you can't afford a 911, or M3 or RS, or any other other you can name.

Wow..........I knew these posts would start, just not this soon.........just retarded.

[KWA VaTech]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

I'm going to say the M was the dealership demo.

I do find it funny how people put the M3 up on some pedestal. Before I got the 335 I drove an E46 M3 and I wasn't impressed at all. It definitely wasn't faster or better handling than my Evo. I think I'd feel the same way about the E92. People just build it up too much.

As far as the "faster pfft" comment goes WTF are you paying all that extra money for if it's not faster? The badge? The V8 sound track? Isn't that what M is about?

Or is it just a status symbol? I think that's it more than anything for most people.

Faster to me is much more then a drag race (get a civic for that or a neon). Like you mention early in your post, it’s the handling that will get it around a track quickly and that’s what I am most impressed with in a car. Important to remember just how great an Evo is on a track, look at some of the cars it can run with.

[Kev]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Just admit it, everyone in here who thinks our cars are faster or better than M3's because of few runs between drivers who no one knows and with no video proof or proper controls to make sure everything is even is on crack.

Get over it people, our cars are nothing more than cruisers with some speed, they ain't M's, or RS's or R8's or porches or any other sports car. Its normal f***ing 3'er with twin turbos strapped to her.

I understand some people want to talk about how great their car is, but thats because you can't afford a 911, or M3 or RS, or any other other you can name.

Wow..........I knew this posts would star.........just retarded.

Thanks for your immature input by calling people names

[ArmyBimmerDude]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Just admit it, everyone in here who thinks our cars are faster or better than M3's because of few runs between drivers who no one knows and with no video proof or proper controls to make sure everything is even is on crack.

Get over it people, our cars are nothing more than cruisers with some speed, they ain't M's, or RS's or R8's or porches or any other sports car. Its normal f***ing 3'er with twin turbos strapped to her.

I understand some people want to talk about how great their car is, but thats because you can't afford a 911, or M3 or RS, or any other other you can name.

Wow..........I knew this posts would star.........just retarded.

Says the guy waiting for his M3 to arrive? Yeah, you're credible. Shoulda got a C63 AMG instead bud. Don't come and defend your purchase. You payed around $25k more for a letter. Yes right now it handles better, but put a little money into the car and you'll beat it straightline and at the track.

Oh and I can afford a M3. But why would I when I could get a GT-R instead?

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by KWA VaTech

Faster to me is much more then a drag race (get a civic for that or a neon). Like you mention early in your post, it’s the handling that will get it around a track quickly and that’s what I am most impressed with. Important to remember just how great an Evo is on a track, look at some of the cars it is running with.

But that's just it, anything BMW has done to the M to make it handle you could do to the 335 as well. Some wider tires, better springs and dampeners, LSD, etc...

The main thing you couldn't replicate so far is the M-drive and how it works the DSC. Otherwise it's not as big of a difference as say the Evo vs. standard lancer.

I'm not taking anything away from the M. It's an awesome car. I just think it's performance isn't unattainable if that's the direction you want to go. It just isn't what I'm looking for anymore. If I wanted something raw and track oriented I would have kept my Evo.

As far as the Evo being great. It is. IMO for $25K more the M3 should be better than what it is. A nicer interior and roundel aren't worth that much to me.

[grumpybear]

Originally Posted by e46e92love

Wow..........I knew these posts would start, just not this soon.........just retarded.

you underestimate the intelligence and maturity levels of this group...

[ChaneRZ]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Says the guy waiting for his M3 to arrive? Yeah, you're credible. Shoulda got a C63 AMG instead bud. Don't come and defend your purchase. You payed around $25k more for a letter. Yes right now it handles better, but put a little money into the car and you'll beat it straightline and at the track.

Oh and I can afford a M3. But why would I when I could get a GT-R instead?

+1

[pdjafari]

theres always something faster. truth is most ppl here post about cars they race b/c those cars they beat are the one's they sweat. Anyday of the week if anybody here was offered a brand new 335 OR a brand new e92 M3, 9/10 would pick the M3, and the 1 who picked the 335....well...shoot him/her. M3 resale>335 resale.

Additionally, somebody posted here about racing/beating a 997 TT I thought. Thats great and all, but if anybody was offered 335 vs 997 TT, I'm sure everybody would pick the 997 TT. Just like the kids posting on the SRT4 forums who spanked a stock 335....they post b/c they sweat the 335...

[Kev]

Originally Posted by ArmyBimmerDude

Says the guy waiting for his M3 to arrive? Yeah, you're credible. Shoulda got a C63 AMG instead bud. Don't come and defend your purchase. You payed around $25k more for a letter. Yes right now it handles better, but put a little money into the car and you'll beat it straightline and at the track.

Oh and I can afford a M3. But why would I when I could get a GT-R instead?

LOL~ I loved my R33 when I was in Hong Kong The new GT-R is a beast. They just won the Japan Super GT Championship this weekend, 2 GTRs took the first and second place in the race.

[j28s]

Kev - that is my point. Anyone can add enhancements to a car and it will perform better than another car. Stock to stock comparison...414hp is better than 300 hp, the stock M3 suspension is better than the 335i suspension, M3 LSD is better than the non existent 335i LSD, and so on and so on. Fine...add the computer upgrade to the 335 and have 400ish hp...ok, then wait and add Dinan's supercharger to the M3 and the 414hp will go to over 500hp. Or add the supercharger to the E46 M3 (333HP plus supercharger equals 425HP to the wheels) and compare that to the 335i with the V2 or whatever. It just keeps going and going.

Kind of like some kid in a Honda CRX putting in a K24 motor and a huge turbo...end result, car that weighs 1800 lbs (yes, less than half of a 335i) and over 400HP. Add some huge slicks and race a 335i or new M3...who do you think is going to win. Does that mean the CRX is a better car, faster car...but it costs less than $10K for the whole thing...it's cheaper.

JimM3 - yes, you can always improve a stock suspension along with everything else. Fine, then put the Moton Four Ways on the new M3 to compare apples to apples. Regarding the more torque...to a point. When exiting a turn, the torque is the reason you can put the pedal down faster...I've ran GT prepared Vipers at a couple tracks and I've never been able to give more than 25% throttle coming out of a tight turn because of the torque...if I did..the car would spin the monster tires in the rear. Another car with the same HP, but a little less torque can get on more power sooner because of where the torque and HP bans are on the power band. That's all I'm saying...

Now, do I like my 335i? yes, one of the best car purchases I've ever made and I'll keep it for a few years. Will I get an M3...nope. Doesn't make sense for me since I'm always driving my car with my business needs (a lot of mileage) and yes the M3 sedan would be AWESOME.

[EDITED TO MAKE A COUPLE MORE POINTS] Cheers!

[Kev]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

theres always something faster. truth is most ppl here post about cars they race b/c those cars they beat are the one's they sweat. Anyday of the week if anybody here was offered a brand new 335 OR a brand new e92 M3, 9/10 would pick the M3, and the 1 who picked the 335....well...shoot him/her. M3 resale>335 resale.

Additionally, somebody posted here about racing/beating a 997 TT I thought. Thats great and all, but if anybody was offered 335 vs 997 TT, I'm sure everybody would pick the 997 TT. Just like the kids posting on the SRT4 forums who spanked a stock 335....they post b/c they sweat the 335...

Please come to MA and shoot me then. I'm not sold on the M3, coz it won't be able to get me to work in 2 feet of snow in the middle of a snow storm like the 335xi does.

People are just listing unrealistic conditions here: track day, drag race, etc. How often do you get to do those? If I really want to win every drag race, I'd buy a used SL600 and chip it. No one will be able to touch the V12 twin turbo. If I want to take corners, I'd get a Lotus or Noble. Let's face it. There's also an element of practicality in buying cars. The M3 is great, but it's very impractical in any where that snows, especially for those that need to get to work regardless. I know I wouldn't want to rely on the M3 to get me to the hospital in a snow storm. The versatility of the 335 platform is what sold me in the first place. You can go fast, go slow, take corners, cut through snow / ice, and do them all in a reasonably well manner. That's what important to me when I made my decision to forgo the E55AMG and get the 335xi instead.

[Epacy]

Originally Posted by RiXst3r

LOL ... so your a master tech, so "ours" is refering to "the dealership"... so this was a customer car? now thats funny.... I thought it was weird that my car 20 miles on it when I picked it up... now I know what you guys do

Originally Posted by turbotko

The car absolutely was not a customers car. I would never race a customers car..........ever ever ever ever!! Just wanted to keep that straight. I have much respect for my customers and from my customers and would never risk that on a race.

I am not at liberty to tell where the car came from though.

Then why did you edit your initial post and take out the line about it not being exactly our's?

[Kev]

Originally Posted by j28s

Kev - that is my point. Anyone can add enhancements to a car and it will perform better than another car. Stock to stock comparison...414hp is better than 300 hp, the stock M3 suspension is better than the 335i suspension, M3 LSD is better than the non existent 335i LSD, and so on and so on. Fine...add the computer upgrade to the 335 and have 400ish hp...ok, then wait and add Dinan's supercharger to the M3 and the 414hp will go to over 500hp. Or add the supercharger to the E46 M3 (333HP plus supercharger equals 425HP to the wheels) and compare that to the 335i with the V2 or whatever. It just keeps going and going.

Hey, we see eye to eye on this one. There's no doubt the M3 is a better car out of the box. My point is, will YOU be able to FULLY UTILIZE all the gadgets on the road in the United States? My honest answer is no and I would invest the money in a performance driving course to learn how to better control and fully utilize the potential of my car.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by j28s

Kev - that is my point. Anyone can add enhancements to a car and it will perform better than another car. Stock to stock comparison...414hp is better than 300 hp, the stock M3 suspension is better than the 335i suspension, M3 LSD is better than the non existent 335i LSD, and so on and so on. Fine...add the computer upgrade to the 335 and have 400ish hp...ok, then wait and add Dinan's supercharger to the M3 and the 414hp will go to over 500hp. Or add the supercharger to the E46 M3 (333HP plus supercharger equals 425HP to the wheels) and compare that to the 335i with the V2 or whatever. It just keeps going and going.
JimM3 - yes, you can always improve a stock suspension along with everything else. Fine, then put the Moton Four Ways on the new M3 to compare apples to apples. Regarding the more torque...to a point. When exiting a turn, the torque is the reason you can put the pedal down faster...I've ran GT prepared Vipers at a couple tracks and I've never been able to give more than 25% throttle coming out of a tight turn because of the torque...if I did..the car would spin the monster tires in the rear. Another car with the same HP, but a little less torque can get on more power sooner because of where the torque and HP bans are on the power band. That's all I'm saying...

I think the argument is more that for the money of the M3, you can get the 335i as good or better in most categories for far less money.

[phantom330]

If price wasn't an issue I don't think anybody here would rather have a 335 that is slightly quicker than an M3. The M3 is a purpose built car, better seats, better wheels, suspension, looks. If anybody on here is lucky enough to see a new M3 on the roads I think you would gawk a lot harder at that than a tuned or modded 335. With that being said if you want straight line speed, don't care about people "gawking" at your car and are happy with it than so be it. Also a plus for people in bad weather is you can get a 335 with AWD, I doubt too many M3's tout around in the snow.

Both are sweet and very different. If I had the funds I'd have an M in my garage, no doubt.

[j28s]

Originally Posted by Kev

Hey, we see eye to eye on this one. There's no doubt the M3 is a better car out of the box. My point is, will YOU be able to FULLY UTILIZE all the gadgets on the road in the United States? My honest answer is no and I would invest the money in a performance driving course to learn how to better control and fully utilize the potential of my car.

Again I agree. Would I "fully utilize all the gadgets", I would love to try. I do take my 335i to the track when I instruct because the clubs want me to take the student on the track to "show them". My racecar is...well...as racecar with now passenger seat and no way to add a passenger seat (i.e. rollcage and fire suppression system). I've been to the track enough already that I am on third set of tires and brake pads...the car is fun...but not close to an M3.

[j28s]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I think the argument is more that for the money of the M3, you can get the 335i as good or better in most categories for far less money.

Does buying a used 2002 M3 and installing a supercharger and coilvers count? Could do for less than that of a 335i and the M3 would have more power and handle better...

EDITED - here's a link for those that feel the 335 with the Vishnu V2 running 12.67 @112mph is faster than a e46 M3 that is supercharged running a 11.58 @ 123 mph).

[Kev]

Originally Posted by j28s

Again I agree. Would I "fully utilize all the gadgets", I would love to try. I do take my 335i to the track when I instruct because the clubs want me to take the student on the track to "show them". My racecar is...well...as racecar with now passenger seat and no way to add a passenger seat (i.e. rollcage and fire suppression system). I've been to the track enough already that I am on third set of tires and brake pads...the car is fun...but not close to an M3.

Being a race instructor do put you in a better position than most of us. However, don't forget you are in the minority. How many people buy an M3 because they can track it (and be able to deal with the loss of warranty)? Most of the people buy the M for the status, name, and look. How many of these people truly have the driving skills to master the M? Honestly, if you gave me an M3, it'd go to waste because I can't drive it for shit. I won't be able to use the innovations in the M at all. Therefore, I'm sticking with a 335xi.

[NYCGarbagePrince]

You don't have a warranty the moment your car touches the track.. so if you want to bring up the worry of warranty issues.. the answer is you're still wrong. The point everyone on the 335i side is trying to make is quite simple. THEY ARE BOTH 3 SERIES CARS.. Built on the same platform. Look relatively the same to those who don't know any better. Fine call it 25k but last M3 I saw on the lot cost 96k. That is 50k more than my car. How in the world can you justify 50k worth of upgrades to my car and tell me it only has 414 Hp and even less tq than my car has stock.. I love that they are moving towards the V8-V10 applications in the M cars. The work they put in on the trackability of the new M3 is truly amazing. But right now, 96k for that car is well stupid.

As much as you want to sit here and say the M3 was made for the track... it wasn't it was made to handle EXTREMELY well on the street and can handle with the best of them on the track. But a track prepped 335 will handle better.. does that make the 335 a better car? No, I agree with Turbo I would purchase an exige or an ATOM for track duty.