Dealer told me my car skipped timing. wtf?

veer90 · 07-21-2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkkevin

pretty much a non issue with n54's UNLESS you're beating the living shit out of it like op said he was, normal, even drag racing, should have very low possible failure.

I'm curious how what I was doing put more stress on that part than drag racing? Pretty sure people use two-step and do burnouts all the time at the strip, on stickier tires no less. Not to mention the stresses of launching.

Really interested in figuring out root cause here.

07-21-2016, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkkevin

pretty much a non issue with n54's UNLESS you're beating the living shit out of it like op said he was, normal, even drag racing, should have very low possible failure.

Reminds me of these guys:
https://www.instagram.com/mncperformance/

They're fixing a car that is heavily tracked with the same issue.

veer90 · 07-21-2016, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FCobra94

Reminds me of these guys:
https://www.instagram.com/mncperformance/

They're fixing a car that is heavily tracked with the same issue.

LOL that's my car

I told them exactly what I said in the first post, they just didn't write the description in a way that makes me look like an idiot haha

nitehawk · 07-21-2016, 12:08 PM

This is the first I've ever heard of this issue on this platform ... Bizarre

veer90 · 07-21-2016, 12:14 PM

UPDATE: shop has pulled the oil pan, to do oil pan gasket and engine mounts per my request while they have the car. they found the retaining clip from one of the cylinder 1 intake valve lifters. No metal shards though. Still waiting for it all to go back together and compression test to be performed.

mxchris727 · 07-21-2016, 02:30 PM

I would get an oil analysis done just to make sure that there is nothing else internally wrong.

veer90 · 07-26-2016, 10:37 AM

UPDATE: no damage to valves or pistons!

This weekend I had a conversation with Martin, the master tech who worked on my car. Timing was off by a whole TWO TEETH, and the pistons and valves barely touched. If the hub had slipped any further I would have bent valves. Needless to say, I was *extremely* lucky, compression test was performed and came back with good results. Ended up needing a new front crank hub, intake and exhaust camshaft bearing ledges, and 3 hydraulic lifters / retaining clips on the intake side.

I think WOTbox does a really horrible job of holding RPMs at the programmed setpoint, and is a major contributor to slipping the front crank hub in this incident. See the log below, with RPM bouncing back and forth between as low as 3.3k and as high as 3.8k, when the setpoint was 3.5k. http://www.datazap.me/u/veer90/wotbo...g=0&data=14-16

It's entirely possible that these rapid oscillations in rotational inertia overwhelmed the friction material and bolt clamping down on the hub. I know I could feel my engine shaking and crashing back and forth even in the car with stock engine mounts with 90k miles.

Car is still in the shop because although timing was fixed, it's still not boosting. Hopefully it's just something they forgot to connect when putting everything back together. Either way, when I go pick up my car this week WOTbox is going in the trash

Cory S · 08-28-2016, 08:09 PM

Nice to find this thread. My N55 engine went out of time on Wednesday. It's being fixed under warranty at the dealer now. It's 11 hours of book time labor, and $60.00 in parts.

Why it happens.... Crank bolt loosens up, and the lower timing sprocket is not keyed. The timing will start to slip, and eventually it will be so far out of time, it will throw codes and possibly stutter and stall. Re-start will not happen.

It USUALLY happens on manual transmission cars, when extreme over rev happens, like when you accidentally downshift from 4th to 2nd or something similar. Bouncing off the rev limiter etc.... Depending how severe it happens, determines whether or not you crash the valves.

Mine is an auto. I am running FBO with Pure stage 2 turbo. About two weeks ago, I was at WOT in first gear. At about 6500rpm, right before I was about to shift, the transmission either slipped or came out of gear. It hit so hard, and made the most dreadful "BANG" I ever heard. I Immediately let off and coasted to the side of the road. "Transmission Malfunction" warning on Idrive, and SES light. Shut car off, and waited about 60 seconds. Car re-started fine, and I drive home 2 miles. Read the code, and it was "Engine overspeed". Probably hit around 8500rpm I bet when it happened.

Car/engine ran great for 2 weeks, then like I mentioned, last Wednesday, on the way home from work, (driving normally) it started sputtering and threw a plethora of codes. Car died and would not re-start.

The SA and I think the valves are fine, considering it started coming out of time slowly probably on the last mile or so before it happened. Car should be done tomorrow. Hopefully all is well. Just a note, my crank pulley always looked like it was just a bit wobbly since I bought the car 10K miles ago (@86K miles, and bone stock).

homemade_f81 · 08-29-2016, 09:42 AM

My first N54 (2007, auto, bone stock, 70k miles) had a similar issue but instead of the crank bolt it was the camshaft bolt on the intake cam. Amazingly, only two intake valves were bent when the timing on the intake cam was off by 165 degrees.

Bours · 03-22-2018, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swedishpowah

My first N54 (2007, auto, bone stock, 70k miles) had a similar issue but instead of the crank bolt it was the camshaft bolt on the intake cam. Amazingly, only two intake valves were bent when the timing on the intake cam was off by 165 degrees.

how much did it cost to fix ? i think i might have similar problem

unrealii · 03-22-2018, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bours

how much did it cost to fix ? i think i might have similar problem

You have a different engine. It would be a very rare failure if you had the same issue.

Bours · 03-22-2018, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unrealii

You have a different engine. It would be a very rare failure if you had the same issue.

Oh ok i see its at the shop right now. Im having inlet and exaust cam shaft codes andvthe car wont start....i did a hard pull and got half engine and couldnt rev anymore..m

weehe126 · 03-22-2018, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unrealii

You have a different engine. It would be a very rare failure if you had the same issue.

Seen it first hand on a N55, it can be the exact same issue. N54,N55,S55 all have the same crank hub.

unrealii · 03-23-2018, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weehe126

Seen it first hand on a N55, it can be the exact same issue. N54,N55,S55 all have the same crank hub.

Mybad. You are right

07-21-2016, 12:08 PM	#26
nitehawk Lieutenant Colonel 107 Rep 1,909 Posts Drives: e92 335i 6MT Join Date: May 2011 Location: Toronto iTrader: (15) Garage List E92 BMW 335i [9.00] E92 BMW 335i \| Retired [10.00]	This is the first I've ever heard of this issue on this platform ... Bizarre
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07-21-2016, 12:14 PM	#27
veer90 Private 28 Rep 92 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: . iTrader: (1)	UPDATE: shop has pulled the oil pan, to do oil pan gasket and engine mounts per my request while they have the car. they found the retaining clip from one of the cylinder 1 intake valve lifters. No metal shards though. Still waiting for it all to go back together and compression test to be performed. Last edited by veer90; 07-21-2016 at 12:30 PM..
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07-21-2016, 02:30 PM	#28
mxchris727 Captain 195 Rep 665 Posts Drives: '03 M5, '06 325i, '12 M3 Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Westport, CT iTrader: (0)	I would get an oil analysis done just to make sure that there is nothing else internally wrong. __________________ BMW GT1 (INPA, DIS, WinKFP, ect..), ISTA/P & /D is up and running! PM me if you want to stop by and code your car.
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07-26-2016, 10:37 AM	#29
veer90 Private 28 Rep 92 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: . iTrader: (1)	UPDATE: no damage to valves or pistons! This weekend I had a conversation with Martin, the master tech who worked on my car. Timing was off by a whole TWO TEETH, and the pistons and valves barely touched. If the hub had slipped any further I would have bent valves. Needless to say, I was extremely lucky, compression test was performed and came back with good results. Ended up needing a new front crank hub, intake and exhaust camshaft bearing ledges, and 3 hydraulic lifters / retaining clips on the intake side. I think WOTbox does a really horrible job of holding RPMs at the programmed setpoint, and is a major contributor to slipping the front crank hub in this incident. See the log below, with RPM bouncing back and forth between as low as 3.3k and as high as 3.8k, when the setpoint was 3.5k. http://www.datazap.me/u/veer90/wotbo...g=0&data=14-16 It's entirely possible that these rapid oscillations in rotational inertia overwhelmed the friction material and bolt clamping down on the hub. I know I could feel my engine shaking and crashing back and forth even in the car with stock engine mounts with 90k miles. Car is still in the shop because although timing was fixed, it's still not boosting. Hopefully it's just something they forgot to connect when putting everything back together. Either way, when I go pick up my car this week WOTbox is going in the trash
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08-28-2016, 08:09 PM	#30
Cory S Major 306 Rep 1,163 Posts Drives: 2011 335i-X Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: N.H. iTrader: (0)	Nice to find this thread. My N55 engine went out of time on Wednesday. It's being fixed under warranty at the dealer now. It's 11 hours of book time labor, and $60.00 in parts. Why it happens.... Crank bolt loosens up, and the lower timing sprocket is not keyed. The timing will start to slip, and eventually it will be so far out of time, it will throw codes and possibly stutter and stall. Re-start will not happen. It USUALLY happens on manual transmission cars, when extreme over rev happens, like when you accidentally downshift from 4th to 2nd or something similar. Bouncing off the rev limiter etc.... Depending how severe it happens, determines whether or not you crash the valves. Mine is an auto. I am running FBO with Pure stage 2 turbo. About two weeks ago, I was at WOT in first gear. At about 6500rpm, right before I was about to shift, the transmission either slipped or came out of gear. It hit so hard, and made the most dreadful "BANG" I ever heard. I Immediately let off and coasted to the side of the road. "Transmission Malfunction" warning on Idrive, and SES light. Shut car off, and waited about 60 seconds. Car re-started fine, and I drive home 2 miles. Read the code, and it was "Engine overspeed". Probably hit around 8500rpm I bet when it happened. Car/engine ran great for 2 weeks, then like I mentioned, last Wednesday, on the way home from work, (driving normally) it started sputtering and threw a plethora of codes. Car died and would not re-start. The SA and I think the valves are fine, considering it started coming out of time slowly probably on the last mile or so before it happened. Car should be done tomorrow. Hopefully all is well. Just a note, my crank pulley always looked like it was just a bit wobbly since I bought the car 10K miles ago (@86K miles, and bone stock). __________________ 2011 335i X-drive 6AT / Pure turbo / 500AWHP/526TQ
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08-29-2016, 09:42 AM	#31
homemade_f81 Lieutenant 321 Rep 416 Posts Drives: 2018 340i, 2020 M2CS Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Greenville, SC iTrader: (1)	My first N54 (2007, auto, bone stock, 70k miles) had a similar issue but instead of the crank bolt it was the camshaft bolt on the intake cam. Amazingly, only two intake valves were bent when the timing on the intake cam was off by 165 degrees.
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