[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by John 070

I belong to too many CU's, if that's possible, Navy, PenFed, you name it. The way they treat people is completely contrary to commercial banks. Yes, it's unfair treatment that they get, but that benefits the CU, and then the member.

What did we get for keeping tons of money at WFC? A call once a year that our free stagecoach was ready to be picked up. One year, a stuffed animal.

Bad service, high turnover, and employees under unrealistic goals (hmmmm that elderly person just refi'd their home last week at 8.375% with you, and now you're asking them to do it again at 8% claiming it will be a no cash out of pocket refi with only 20k in closing costs, so you can meet your monthly goal).

True, bank employees are just ordinary people making tops 75k. The fact that they cheat is encouraged by their employer. After 2008, it's funny, a person working for a mortgage co. is more qualified than one working for a bank. For pete's sake they have to pass a test, they are not just issued a NMLS number.

p.s. how could one not belong to Navy or PenFed? Respectively, they each have one of the best CC's in each category. PenFed has a true 5% on gas that is automatically deducted from the statement. Why would anybody not want 5% off gas? It's something we all need. Navy true 1.5% rewards redeemable anytime as little as $0.01. Navy had a 5% cd 2 yrs. ago, 12 mo. NO BRAINER.

What did you mean it is 'unfair' how they are treated?

[Z K]

I'm not surprised... retail banking is pretty terrible. Everyone is incentivized to sell products rather than provide service. It's not even an option, it's a requirement for someone to succeed in their job. It's not a banking job, it's a sales job.

The higher ups should try different ways to encourage employees.. or just pay employees a living wage!

[ASBSECU E93]

Just to offer additional insight into the incentive structure and pressures to 'sell' products that are not needed or wanted...

Front line employees at several large banks (including WFC) are measured for performance against how many 'sticky' products and services they can sell at account opening.

So......

A checking account is one product/service
A debit card is another product/service
A credit card is another product/service
Online banking is another product/service
Mobile banking is another product/service
Investment accounts are another product/service
Etc, etc, etc.....

These bank measure front line employees to achieve as many as 8 'sticky' products at account opening.

I have seen instances where people would open and validate online banking accounts for customers who were elderly, and I knew didn't even own a computer.

Why you ask...? The employee needed to hit a quota for their numbers.

And, The more you have with a bank - the harder it is for you to leave!

EVEN WHEN THEY SERVICE CHARGE AND FEE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU!!!!

[John 070]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

Just to offer additional insight into the incentive structure and pressures to 'sell' products that are not needed or wanted...

Front line employees at several large banks (including WFC) are measured for performance against how many 'sticky' products and services they can sell at account opening.

So......

A checking account is one product/service
A debit card is another product/service
A credit card is another product/service
Online banking is another product/service
Mobile banking is another product/service
Investment accounts are another product/service
Etc, etc, etc.....

These bank measure front line employees to achieve as many as 8 'sticky' products at account opening.

I have seen instances where people would open and validate online banking accounts for customers who were elderly, and I knew didn't even own a computer.

Why you ask...? The employee needed to hit a quota for their numbers.

And, The more you have with a bank - the harder it is for you to leave!

EVEN WHEN THEY SERVICE CHARGE AND FEE THE SHIT OUT OF YOU!!!!

to get to the skinny, say you were dumb enough to want to deposit 400k into a savings at WFC....the banker might try to get you to go to the other banker so they can pee or take lunch.

Now, instead, walk into the bank and shout, "I gots to borrow 125k cuz I needs a heloc right here, right now!" The 4 bankers who were nearly sound asleep would stab their coworkers in the back to have you sit at their desk.

This is junk the management knows, but doesn't do anything about. Because the management's boss is Wall Street.

I pumped and dumped JPM, bought on brexit, took my dividends and profits and bailed. But I kept Citi, which has also done nicely. We are the bosses of these C-levels, do we use their products or care what they do? Not really, we just want the stocks to rise, and dividends to keep coming. It's a broken scenario.

Just use a CU and be happy.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

What did you mean it is 'unfair' how they are treated?

it should have come out that banks are unfairly treated, to the benefit of CUs.

Nobody on this forum can change the world. I think this was proven in the 90's when there were "green" mutual funds. How'd that work out?

So I am in no way ashamed to be a member of the largest credit union in the USA, and I think #3 as well, and I do credit cards, loans, savings, checking, with them. I also own stock in 2 of the big 4 banks, and have accounts at 2 local banks and 2 internet banks. Confused yet? I lost my debit card from the #1 rated online bank. It took them over a month to issue me a new one. Meanwhile, I have 6 figures in a savings account with them, so no access other than electronic, since they have no branches. Not just wells fargo is terrible, most banks are.

CU's are awesome. Want to be treated as a human, join a CU!

http://www.aba.com/issues/documents/...sinfosheet.pdf

[ASBSECU E93]

I thought you meant how CU's are tax exempt because they are Not-For-Profit...

I am a long time member of the 2nd largest CU (SECU), and work for a 2 Billion asset "Regional' CU.

For context - I started working for FUNB managing their regional commercial group. FUNB then bought Wachovia, and they immediately divested me (and 1,500 other FUNB employees) to a small regional bank because the DOJ has this nifty rule about buying more than 50% of market share. This small bank was then bought by SunTrust Bank....For over 8 years, worked for 3 banks and never left my office.

I left ST and went to work for the largest family controlled bank in the US (First Citizens Bank), but eventually left FCB for a small community bank after about 6 years. FCB was a fantastic bank - and I do regret leaving them for the $$ and appeal of a community bank.

Don't believe for a minute that community banks are any different than the large banks, they are about profits as well. They just do it in less overt ways.

For the last 4 years, I have been over all of lending with my CU (Retail, Direct, Consumer, Commercial, etc).

[1MOREMOD]

Bunch of ball washing bastards

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Bunch of ball washing bastards

[1MOREMOD]

Good try but Shawshank

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by smoosh

I don't think it's fair to blame Wells Fargo for their employees' actions. Once Wells Fargo discovered the scam, they did what they could: fire the employees, pay all fines, return dirty money to victims, and apologize/ensure appropriate measures have been taken to prevent future reoccurrences.

Bing. Actually if you want to point fingers point at Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Obama. They enacted regulatons that made the banks look at other ways of making money. Banks, like any other business, rich business owner, etc when faced with regulatons or taxes that cuts into their income, have two choices. Eat the cost themselves, or pass it down to employees or consumers. The banking regulations that were put in place were far in excess than were needed so to make up the shortfall, they added fees and created programs that incentified employees to open credit cards and accounts to make up the difference. In turn against bank policy, the employees found ways to bilk the system. Wells and I'm sure all the other banks too are now taking measures to correct the bilking. But this also means a shortfall in revenues, so look for additional fees coming soon. At least until some of these stupid regulatons that were unnecessary and passed only to try to punish them are lifted.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Bing. Actually if you want to point fingers point at Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Obama. They enacted regulatons that made the banks look at other ways of stealing from people.

FTFY

[Fundguy1]

Banks are a business. They make money flow. They are for profit. Nobody bats an eye when food prices skyrocket because of the stupid ethanol laws. Same deal.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ASBSECU E93

Actually.....

Wells Fargo and large bank culture is about profit and sales. I've worked for a 'Big Box' bank, and now work for a very large Credit Union.

Sales culture is hard core at Wells and others. Profit above all else. The fact that employees devised a way to cheat the incentive system isn't necessarily only a reflection of the 5,000 employees who were blamed.

This. When mgt sees numbers that are grossly outside of the IC model, they should be aware. They weren't.

Originally Posted by jwzimm

You need to look at the root cause of these actions though. When you develop a "salesman" culture that pins employees' pay, bonuses, and promotions to upselling products and also fail to implement adequate safeguards that prevent abuse and fraud you share a large portion of the responsibility.

Also, Wells Fargo did not discover the scam. They had to be sued and investigated by the CFPB before they would admit fault.

This.

Originally Posted by Maestro

Actually trying to properly incentivize sales people is one of the hardest things to do. Most good sales people are Type A and very creative, however do they convince people to buy things. They will always find a way to work the system to benefit them. They will always do what is in the best interest of their pocket book, and the wells forgo case is no different.

It is really difficult and if there is a way to game the system, unethical salespeople will exploit it. We had an IC system that was based around growing revenue around a secondary product. The problem with the system was that the secondary product only had 25% of the total revenue of the primary product. Salespersons made a mint. The company took a hit. Poor design. Worse results.

Originally Posted by smoosh

Alright, calm down TX, no need to throw a hissy-fit...

Your post is blaming Wells Fargo as a corporation for this "shady behavior," not upper-level management. I'm sure upper-level management knew what was going on...it's the culture of many large corporations, no news there. I will not, however, stop doing business with Wells Fargo as a corporation due to this mid-level scam initiated primarily for personal gain...

No, midshipman. Stop doing business with them. It's like seeing a roach in a structure...if you see one it means that hundreds are actually present.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

These MF's have a team of MF's sitting around devising ways to skim your $$$ right out of your wallet, account, family, home, etc.
I am happy to say that I have never done business with Wells Fargo. But this is some shady, low down dirty shit right here:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/08/inve...inkId=28554666

Didn't bother to read but I assume once again nobody gives a shit how profits are made.


We all do this daily. We buy something we want without thinking about the people who made it. At least people who work in a bank can read at times.

[ASBSECU E93]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Bing. Actually if you want to point fingers point at Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Obama. They enacted regulatons that made the banks look at other ways of making money. Banks, like any other business, rich business owner, etc when faced with regulatons or taxes that cuts into their income, have two choices. Eat the cost themselves, or pass it down to employees or consumers. The banking regulations that were put in place were far in excess than were needed so to make up the shortfall, they added fees and created programs that incentified employees to open credit cards and accounts to make up the difference. In turn against bank policy, the employees found ways to bilk the system. Wells and I'm sure all the other banks too are now taking measures to correct the bilking. But this also means a shortfall in revenues, so look for additional fees coming soon. At least until some of these stupid regulatons that were unnecessary and passed only to try to punish them are lifted.

Regulators are the debil.

Basically - people who write regulatory laws (politicians) have ZERO clue the impact their laws and regulations have to the average consumer in the real world.

Case in point - interchange fee. Banks and processors simply passed this reduction of fee back to the consumers.

[David70]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Bing. Actually if you want to point fingers point at Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Obama. They enacted regulatons that made the banks look at other ways of making money.

Not my fault I am breaking the law, I had to do it to make money (said every thief ever caught). I guess if you try hard enough you can justify anything.

Then the company shouldn't be held responsible for their employees actions? You mean the company that set up the program to pay their employees to do what they did and then not figure out the employees were doing it? No responsibility?

How did they keep the thousands of employees quite? I'm sure some of them were fired or quit for normal reasons and going out the door blackmail would have been pretty easy.

Then, how did they take money out of 500,000 peoples accounts without them realizing it? My wife and I get a statement every month and she balances our checkbook, if there was $20 missing we would see it.

[Fundguy1]

Banks facilitate money moving from place to place. Mortgages, credit cards, loans, etc. Without this the economy siezes up. The regulations severily slowed this hampering the economic recovery and hurting bank profits. So they had to shift to other methods to make a profit.

[EL Jeffe 5]

Well all banks do this not just WF

[08njSTEP]

Wasn't Wells Fargo in deep doo doo in '08. Breaking some laws regarding mortgages I recall.

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by EL Jeffe 5

Well all banks do this not just WF

nah they don't.

sorry yes they do I misread what you were replying to.

[insanecoder]

Just figured it out? Looky the news for the last 15 years.. and thats just cause of the internet.
The banks have been crookin for lots longer than that.. they rig and skim just about everything for their masters.
Caveat: not everyone who works at banks are criminals or criminal-minded

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Banks are a business. They make money flow. They are for profit. Nobody bats an eye when food prices skyrocket because of the stupid ethanol laws. Same deal.

Ethanol, did somebody say ethanol?

Love it!