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[eazydoezit]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Your choice in words and your tenor are not only uncalled for, they basically discredit you.



Well... I suppose he could get the 35% tint all the way around and keep the seat back pitched back at a 40º angle, too. That should complete the look. Get an L badge and he can just call the car a Lexus GS and be done with.

You may or may not be offended by what I just said, but it certainly wasn't as crude as what you just said... and I know that there are a healthy percentage of BMW owners who will understand exactly what I am talking about.

I don't care how perfect you think your fitment is, the reality is you've reduced your clearance to virtually nill and the fact that you've been (possibly) trouble free thus far, is only because of dumb luck, not because what you have is a desirable or truly functional solution. Even Turner's, an established and accepted BMW tuner and the importer for the aforementioned Hartge equipment specify on their website that proper fitment of a BMW SPECIFIC 20" rim from Hartge will require fender liner modification. The simply reality is that unless you bump-stop your car (something that is VERY much ill-advised) you WILL cause damage if your tire hits the wrong amount of vertical travel do to an unforeseen/unavoidable road hazard. 100% fact. And the posts from other forum members that followed your post effectively support this statement.



The next poseur statement... "my car is dropped." A TRUE racecar has a lower stance not because it is dropped, but because its suspension geometry from a neutral state effectively creates a lower center of gravity and the suspension components and related spring rates are scaled accordingly. "Dropping" a car via lowered springs or an adjustable coilover causes the suspension geometry to sit a lower than neutral position and severely, adversely affects the car... and again, just because circumstance hasn't come up yet that has shown this to you doesn't mean its not so. It just means that you've been lucky.

I said it before... and your photo doesn't change anything... plenty of people have done what you've done... it still doesn't make it "right" from an operational perspective or long term viable from a safety perspective, either. And you can use whatever profanity you want in my direction... you'll still be wrong.



Yep... the first concrete seam/rip/pothole or steel plate he hits... and his side wall is toast as is the lip of his rim. Good advice with someone else's cash... good job.

Yes, yes, its true that it is POSSIBLE that nothing will ever happen - but that's from playing the luck card, not because of foresight and proper product assignment. You can't begin to tell me that a lower aspect ratio tide on a softer lipped 20" rim will provide the same or greater protection than a 19" forged and edge supported rim with a higher aspect ratio tire. It simply is not possible. And that's a fact.



Well... at least you got one tid-bid correct.

-Daniel

BRAVO Daniel, BRAVO!

You tell em.

I was planning on getting 20's on my e92 as well and now you put a serious doubt on my mind!

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by 1WickedE90

You may not want SSR GT3s after seeing this post below

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90782

Those are SSR GT3 wheels in 18" fitment.

What's also interesting about it all is how Tirerack handled the whole issue. I'm pretty impressed with Gary over this

WickedE90! Shame on you! You're only going to upset Lifo with these posts! Clearly if the owner of those rims had a 25 series tire on they would have been just fine. Not.

-Daniel

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by 1WickedE90

I was going back home to SF @ 2am yesterday & just past Santa Clarita (on I-5), Caltrans was doing work. They forgot to mark off a stretch with really bad pot-holes in the middle lane and this poor 80s Corolla hit one pretty hard. I was maybe 4 car lengths behind him and coming up fast to pass at about 80-85mph & a piece of wheel came whizzing by my car. I had to dig deep into my ninja bag of tricks & pull off one of my amazing "Emmanuel Pirro" passes, with my mirror an inch or so away from the center divider to avoid the bits & pieces coming up from the poor bastard's wheel well. Scary shit!

Yikes! That is scary. Glad nothing happened to you. Clearly if you had 20" rims and 25 series tires you would have been able to make that quick lane change with much greater stability and quite possibly could have even driven through the road debris without a care in the world. Just ask Lifo... he'll tell you the same.

-Daniel

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by hun77777

Wow. That's crazy. So SSR GT3s are known to be like that? My uncle had those on his porsche carrera for several years and it lasted fine until he traded his car. hm... as a matter of fact, i think it was a factory option from porsche dealer or something...

Just because a dealer offers you a product doesn't mean its a good product.

-Daniel

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by eazydoezit

BRAVO Daniel, BRAVO!

You tell em.

I was planning on getting 20's on my e92 as well and now you put a serious doubt on my mind!

Eazydoezit... if the car is a "showcar" and sits on dealer floors and trade show exhibitions... no big deal. If you plan on driving the car either a.) in the real world or (dare I say it) b.) on a track... FORGET IT. The whole concept of a truly livable 20" rim on the E92 without modifications to the car is a pipe dream. Pure and simple.

Again... since I know someone will bring it up.. I know there are no shortage of photos that can demonstrate that a 20" rim will fit on a E92 or E90... but don't think for a second that this is a truly livable, real world drivable solution. You can only manage this if you either a.) modify the fender liners and fenders and/or b.) install bump-stops on the car. Either way, you're making a change to the car that just will not end up well. And then there's the simple fact that you've absolutely killed the ride and handling.

Folks, you have a 3 series BMW, not a cheap American SUV. Stop with the pimping, blinging and all and all cheapening of your fine car. Its just plain vulgar.

-Daniel

[Neema]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

"Dropping" a car via an adjustable coilover causes the suspension geometry to sit a lower than neutral position and severely, adversely affects the car...

Uh...so, why'd you do it? (kw's)

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

.. but don't think for a second that this is a truly livable, real world drivable solution. You can only manage this if you either a.) modify the fender liners and fenders and/or b.) install bump-stops on the car.

Your reasoning and premises have been correct thus far, but now, your wrong. Roll the fender's, sure. . . but I did that with 19's and 18's, so that just has to do with track/width. But modify the fender liners? Install bump stops? Sorry, but I don't think so.

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

Uh...so, why'd you do it? (kw's)

I didn't.

Placing an alternative suspension system on the car does not necessitate a "drop" of the car - though this seems to be the reason why so many opt to change out components. I'm not interested so much in "creating a look" as I am in improving the car's performance. Each component on the car was selected for what it contributed to the car in performance. The only two exceptions are 1.) the lower front valence, which I just think should have been on the car all along and 2.) the painted-out DOT ambers... which I think are just heinous on the U.S. spec cars.

The fact remains, I had to work through the settings carefully to get the ride height up to the maximum position while maintaining both maximum rebound force and compression on the unit - this is specifically why I selected the KW v3 (not PSS9, not PSS10, not KW v1, not KW v2, etc) such that I could accomplish the CORRECT setup on the car.

To be fair, the car is SLIGHTLY lower than stock... but just slightly. By selecting 245 series front and 275 series rear in place of the spec 235 and 265 series that would normally be seen on my rim setup, I'm able to "add back" a bit of ride height, which almost completely neutralizes the car's riding position. And of course, I've increased contact patch every so slightly, too.

The car's setup is, truly, for all intense purposes, perfect. And its track performance demonstrates this.

-Daniel

[Neema]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Yep... the first concrete seam/rip/pothole or steel plate he hits... and his side wall is toast as is the lip of his rim. Good advice with someone else's cash... good job.

Again, wrong. Or at least say it could be dependent on the wheel's construction. Maybe I'm insane, but what I can tell you is that I've hit some seriously bad holes, dips, plates, caps, and what have you. . . both with my iForged wheels, and with my DPE's. . . over a year now, and neither of them ever buckled under the pressure. Ever. Ask the fellow who bought my iForged wheels, or have me take a picture of my DPE's. Better yet, have me film myself hitting all kinds of reasonable concrete seams/rips/potholes.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

I didn't. Placing an alternative suspension . . . . .
(rest of your post)

-Daniel

I like people who can explain themselves. And when they're right (or might be), then I'll give them credit for it.

[FourPtDrift]

[QUOTE=Boost_Nation;2511736]Your reasoning and premises have been correct thus far, but now, your wrong. Roll the fender's, sure. . . but I did that with 19's and 18's, so that just has to do with track/width.[Quote]

No. Not entirely. Offset will affect this as well.

But modify the fender liners? Install bump stops? Sorry, but I don't think so.

It is fine if you don't think so. You can think what you want. But people who earn their keep and are the professionals in this arena disagree with you. They have to mitigate loss and risk and need to make installation choices based on best possible customer guidance. SURE, you could go to a shop and have them do whatever you want. After all, the customer is always right and they are servicing you how you wanted to be serviced. BUT, will they print sales material and endorse the installation of 20" rims on an E9X without vehicle modifications? Not a chance. And not only will you not see that happen... I can show you printed examples of just the opposite... with vendors exactly specifying the needs for limited modifications to accommodate what is effectively an oversized rim for the car.

Let's look at it like this. BMW produces the widest range of optional rims for its vehicles of ANY vehicle manufacturer. The model count is staggering. And BMW produces 20" rims. No problem there with the size. Care to tell me why you won't find in ANY market an optional 20" rim for the E9X from BMW? Obviously, its because I'm all wrong.

-Daniel

[Neema]

and yes RE-01R's are great. . . my old RE-01r's were the awesome

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

Again, wrong. Or at least say it could be dependent on the wheel's construction.

Are you just looking for an excuse to say I'm wrong? Come on now. That's just goofy.

The simple fact is given an equal amount of thrust force as you increase the radial area and decrease the amount of striking force shock absorption, your penetrative forces will be greater. Every single time. And a lipped rim is going to be structurally less sound than a non-lipped rim. There go, a 19" forged rim with a supported lip (such as the VS7) running with a 245 series tire will sustain a greater impact force with GREATER SUCCESS than a non-supported lipped rim at 20" with a 25 series tire. That's a pure and simple fact.

Maybe I'm insane,

That's between you and your psychiatrist.

but what I can tell you is that I've hit some seriously bad holes, dips, plates, caps, and what have you. . . both with my iForged wheels, and with my DPE's. . . over a year now, and neither of them ever buckled under the pressure. Ever.

We all have different definitions of what "fast" is and we all have different definitions of what "seriously bad holes" constitutes. See my earlier posts and references to the use of the phrase "dumb luck." Then insert said phrase here.

Ask the fellow who bought my iForged wheels, or have me take a picture of my DPE's. Better yet, have me film myself hitting all kinds of reasonable concrete seams/rips/potholes.

That's sorta like hitting your head against a wall to demonstrate to me that it doesn't hurt. Maybe you should give some more thought to that "insanity" comment of yours.

-Daniel

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

I like people who can explain themselves. And when they're right (or might be), then I'll give them credit for it.

And so are you trying to tell me that I'm right or I'm not right? I don't see the "credit" you allude to... so I'm going to guess that you're still stickin' to your story.

-Daniel

[FourPtDrift]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

and yes RE-01R's are great. . . my old RE-01r's were the awesome

I don't quite get why you posted the photos of the RE-01R's... but thank you all the same. They're very pretty. Why are you no longer running with RE-01R's?

-Daniel

[Neema]

Originally Posted by Boost_Nation

Your reasoning and premises have been correct thus far, but now, your wrong. Roll the fender's, sure. . . but I did that with 19's and 18's, so that just has to do with track/width.

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

No. Not entirely. Offset will affect this as well.

Im referring to the track/width in relation to rolling the fenders because, as I'm sure you know, a wider track usually means a more aggressive offset is being used, meaning the fender might have to be rolled. Regardless of weather they're 15's or 20's. A wider track usually provides better handling characteristics, as do wider tires.

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

It is fine if you don't think so. You can think what you want. But people who earn their keep and are the professionals in this arena disagree with you. They have to mitigate loss and risk and need to make installation choices based on best possible customer guidance. SURE, you could go to a shop and have them do whatever you want. After all, the customer is always right and they are servicing you how you wanted to be serviced. BUT, will they print sales material and endorse the installation of 20" rims on an E9X without vehicle modifications? Not a chance. And not only will you not see that happen... I can show you printed examples of just the opposite... with vendors exactly specifying the needs for limited modifications to accommodate what is effectively an oversized rim for the car.

Let's look at it like this. BMW produces the widest range of optional rims for its vehicles of ANY vehicle manufacturer. The model count is staggering. And BMW produces 20" rims. No problem there with the size. Care to tell me why you won't find in ANY market an optional 20" rim for the E9X from BMW? Obviously, its because I'm all wrong.

-Daniel

You sure? Because I'm speaking from personal experience when I say that I never had bump stops installed and my fender liner wasn't touched. Do I rub, or does anything touch anything it's not supposed to? Nope. I have one wheel that rubs on rare occasion due to my camber/alignment being off on that corner after a shock install.

BTW, BMW makes a 21" wheel too.

You just make it sound like the one inch difference between 19's and 20's is catastrophic or earth shattering. I've had 18's, 19's and 20's on my E92.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

I don't quite get why you posted the photos of the RE-01R's...

-Daniel

you answered your own question

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

They're very pretty.

[Neema]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Why are you no longer running with RE-01R's?

-Daniel

They didnt offer the sizes I needed

I've seriously been considering some VS8's, but wish they were 10's or 10.5's. At least then I could run some Michelin PS Cup's, Potenza RE-01r's, Pirelli Corsa's, or Yoko ADVAN's.

[hun77777]

Wow quite an argument there between you two. I certainly didn't see this coming lol. All I wanted to hear was whether it will work fine on E92 or not. As I mentioned earlier, it's not going to be tracked and I'm not looking to make this a racecar in anyways. It's just that the deal that I'm getting on this setup was really hard to pass it up by, especailly when the seller, also an owner of E92, saying it will fit just fine. I wasn't specifically looking for 20s or 285s in the first place, it just came to me like that with very affordable price tag, so I thought I'd share how fellow E90post members will think about it.

But after this post, I really need to think more about getting those and see where this post leads to. Now, I'm glad I post this thread up for discussion.

FourPtDrift, please don't get me wrong. While I DO appreciate your great input in this thread, you did sound like the one inch difference between 19's and 20's is catastrophic as Boost Nation pointed out. According to you, people who runs 20s are all bling and 19s are not? After all, if you really were performance driven as you were saying for yourself, you should have gone with 18"s or less with maybe drag redials or something which perhaps give you the performance level you seek out for. I do also agree that there will be more chance damaging 20s by road hazard than 19s due to thinner tire size as you mentioned but 30 series tires are nowhere near to be considered "thick" neither and have more chance damaging 19s as compare to 18 with 40series or what have you... You just made it sounds like 20s are hell no and then, all of sudden, 19s are perfect size for daily driving and/or for track everyone should use.

Obviously when I initially post this, I didn't even consider about potholes as I don't really encounter one on my daily driving route to work. I'm bit weary about 20s now (more of quality of SSR rims I guess), especially after seeing damaged SSR GT3 pictures, but that's whole another issue what you guys are discussing, so I'll just leave it at that...

[Neema]

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

Are you just looking for an excuse to say I'm wrong? Come on now. That's just goofy.

Your getting ahead of yourself.

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

The simple fact is given an equal amount of thrust force as you increase the radial area and decrease the amount of striking force shock absorption, your penetrative forces will be greater. Every single time. And a lipped rim is going to be structurally less sound than a non-lipped rim. There go, a 19" forged rim with a supported lip (such as the VS7) running with a 245 series tire will sustain a greater impact force with GREATER SUCCESS than a non-supported lipped rim at 20" with a 25 series tire. That's a pure and simple fact.

Sure, and I never said anything against that. But what I did go against was "Yep... the first concrete seam/rip/pothole or steel plate he hits... and his side wall is toast as is the lip of his rim. Good advice with someone else's cash... good job."

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

That's between you and your psychiatrist.

Look, I'll let you go since it is very late (or early. . . however you want to look at it) and we're in the same time zone. So maybe your tired. Otherwise, dont be a smart ass dude. I'm trying to have a no nonsense and sincere conversation/debate with you. One in which I will admit when I'm wrong (never afraid to do so), correct errors, learn new things, and give credit where it is due.

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

We all have different definitions of what "fast" is and we all have different definitions of what "seriously bad holes" constitutes. See my earlier posts and references to the use of the phrase "dumb luck." Then insert said phrase here.

As fast as the lawful limit provides me on a given road, and then some. Call it "dumb luck" if you will, but it looks like 3 wheels and over a year later, my luck hasn't run out.

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

That's sorta like hitting your head against a wall to demonstrate to me that it doesn't hurt. Maybe you should give some more thought to that "insanity" comment of yours.

-Daniel

No. It's sort of like showing you what those "seriously bad potholes" are like and it demonstrates the strength of these particular wheels against daily driven situations. Knock off the smart ass shit man (unless of course, your being sarcastic and/or kidding). Thats not what I'm talking to you about.

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

And so are you trying to tell me that I'm right or I'm not right? I don't see the "credit" you allude to... so I'm going to guess that you're still stickin' to your story.

-Daniel

What are you talking about? "Giving credit to" is similar to saying you agree with something/someone. Your post about your suspension and it's geometry/dynamics is what I gave you credit for. Credit for explaining yourself and clearing up that topic.

Originally Posted by FourPtDrift

I don't see the "credit" you allude to...

Look harder. . . notice I never mentioned anything about suspension after that post.

[BimmerFan61]

Hun,

Again back to the point. My advice would be to pass on the wheels as there are too many negative factors.


If you were in my area I'd take you for a ride and you would no doubt buy 20s.


FourptDrift I dont get upset about a couple of posts on a message board. You dont see me posting 10 times on one topic. It doesnt affect me if the dude buys 19s or 20s. Im just trying to give Hun some straight advice from someone who actually runs 20s. Your advice was biased almost possessed like in my opinion.




At the end of the day its a 335! Not a Ferrari. To each his own! Goodluck

Originally Posted by Rossifumi
My 20" iForged rubbed in the back and scraped my fender liners up front when turning. And I was on stock sport suspension.

Your offsets were +34 and +37 with a 10 inch rear. He is running a +43 with a 9.5 inch rear. He will not rub in the back. I already told him he would rub on the inside on the front

[turbotko]

Sounds like fourptdrift just wants everybody to think he's smart, or right, or something. Got a major complex there for sure.

Some of his points I agree with, other things are BS. A proper 20" setup will work just fine with some small compromises in ride and handling. If you are okay with those compromises then by all means, do it up.

fourptdrift.........you need a life man.

[hun77777]

Yeah, thanks for the advise guys, there is only one neg factor as far as I concern which came from another member's post about quality of SSR GT3. I guess I could make this setup work with spacers but I don't want the rims that might break down on me in a year or two later, or at least make me wondering time to time. IForged and HRE and all are great but it's hard to get a hold of under $2000. Deal that I was getting were $1500 for this set up with almost brand new tires which almost the cost of tires itself !!!