[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by Invictus

If BMW starts making all it's cars with those features, the BMWCCA - if it doesn't adapt - will wither like a mean old man, refusing to recognize the future.

Some other club that allows manual adjustment of those features will come along. And that other club will be big, famous and important.

BMWCCA will be an "oldies" BMW club with vanishing relevance.

Sorry to burst your negative bubble about BMW CCA.

This was not a BMW CCA ban, it was a ban issued by a "rogue" chapter. See the other thread and the press release issued by BMW CCA and the revised R&T and Bimmerfile articles.

Moderators need to close this thread or merge with the other thread.

[Invictus]

Originally Posted by SD ///M4

Sorry to burst your negative bubble about BMW CCA.

This was not a BMW CCA ban, it was a ban issued by a "rogue" chapter. See the other thread and the press release issued by BMW CCA and the revised R&T and Bimmerfile articles.

Moderators need to close this thread or merge with the other thread.

You're not bursting my negative bubble.

I was describing what Darwin called natural selection.

Just having some fun with it is all.

[mstevens]

Originally Posted by Invictus

I was describing what Darwin called natural selection.

No, you weren't.

You were describing "competition".

Natural selection is not about survival of an individual in a competitive environment. It's about the ability to pass on a randomly-acquired trait to offspring under selective pressure. If that randomly-acquired trait confers a reproductive advantage (such as the ability to survive to maturity, to attract a mate, to rear offspring to maturity, etc.), then that trait is likely to become more common over time.

Conscious decisions to do things that then put one at a competitive advantage or disadvantage aren't randomly-acquired and can't be passed on to offspring.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by Invictus

You're not bursting my negative bubble.

I was describing what Darwin called natural selection.

Just having some fun with it is all.

Right. You just wanted to bash an enthusiast organization that, being from Canada, you have no direct experience with, just an unsubstantiated opinion. You know, just for fun.

Here's the BMW CCA Press Release which resolves this issue:

As further proof of how much energy the BMW name creates, the Interwebs have been buzzing with concern around whether the BMW CCA and its chapters have banned BMWs with certain safety features from our high-performance driving schools. Regardless of what various media outlets have extrapolated, please rest confidently assured that the BMW CCA has no such BMW vehicle ban.

While advancements in safety features are certainly issues to consider as driving schools continue to evolve with technological advancements, the BMW CCA continues to work with BMW of North America to educate and develop a nationwide procedure for including BMWs with drivers' aids in our schools.—Satch Carlson

https://www.bmwcca.org/news/new-bmws...a-hpde-schools

[agent]

https://www.bmwcca.org/news/new-bmws...a-hpde-schools

(link above is broken)

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

This problem I have with this BMWCCA chapter is the part where they state they will not refund payment to any registrants that are denied track time because of this rule. THAT is BS.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

This problem I have with this BMWCCA chapter is the part where they state they will not refund payment to any registrants that are denied track time because of this rule. THAT is BS.

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

This problem I have with this BMWCCA chapter is the part where they state they will not refund payment to any registrants that are denied track time because of this rule. THAT is BS.

That's been resolved. Read the freaking link! The chapter in question, the Genessee Valley Chapter, went "rogue", and issued the ban without consulting with BMW CCA National, namely the BMW CCA Driving Events Committee who would decide these things. The only ones that were going to lose their fee was anyone who didn't read the letter that they were sent and showed up at the track with said driving aids, but that's no longer an issue. This ban has since been lifted. No one is going to be denied track time. No one is going to lose their money. No BMWs were affected. Your information is at least two days old.

[beats]

Somewhat besides the point, but the GTA (Ontario) Chapter / Trillium is still following through with the ban. There has been no retraction from the club, although I suspect that may change in the immediate future...

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by skru_fase

Somewhat besides the point, but the GTA (Ontario) Chapter / Trillium is still following through with the ban. There has been no retraction from the club, although I suspect that may change in the immediate future...

Yeah, odd that both chapters would put the same ban in place at the same time which makes me wonder what's driving it, particularly since Trillium is not part of BMW CCA. It looks like they're part of BMW Clubs Canada, and that BMW CC would make the final decision, much like BMW CCA. I wonder if SCCA, PCA, NASA, or some other auto clubs did something similar, but someone would probably have mentioned that by now.

[PawnStar]

It would seem pretty dumb for a BMW chapter to ban bmw product. BMW obviously has plenty of leverage to make believers out of the chapter managers.

Private track clubs will have no such pressure and can ban whatever they think needs to be banned for safety or other reasons.

[Maynard]

I'm going to go out on the 'conspiracy theory limb' or at least the 'clever future planning' one. I think that this uproar may be intentional, or at least advantageous to the company in the long run, and by extension, good for us enthusiasts. I think it is a way to retain the option of fully defeatable 'nannies' and limit the automation, at least for sports cars.

From the R&T article: " The day is coming very soon where every new BMW is likely to have these systems fitted as standard equipment. It won't take anything more than a few aggressive ambulance-chasing attorneys to make that happen; "Do you mean to tell the court that your company had technology that could have prevented this accident, but you didn't supply that technology because it cost extra money to do so?" Cue the multi-million-dollar judgments and the addition of crash-avoidance tech to the already-mandatory ABS and ESP."

Now left unchecked, this would indeed rapidly put 'nannies' in every car, and likely harder and harder to turn off. But if BMW was able to say 'track use is important, and w/o fully defeatable nannies we can't sell our cars' then it isn't just a case of 'we are too cheap to add safety features'. Kind of like the argument for trucks and SUV's that have lethal rollover potential, but as part of their inherent features, so not open to legislation like ABS systems are.