[RED-d]

An intercooler does not require a tune. A tune "may" require an intercooler.

[Thecastle]

Originally Posted by Darth Maul

I did read the thread, I've also seen tuners say that an intercooler requires a tune as well so I'm still not fully convinced, anyone else run an IC on stock tune?

For most cars an IC upgrade should be a last resort for performance gains. There are ussually far better bang for the buck upgrades to be made especially on stock cars to improve performance. aka start with a tune.

As others have said, you can "upgrade" you intercooler on stock and tuned cars. However, the benefit is generally small on most cars*. I call it the intercooler placebo effect, they think their car runs better becasue they upgraded their IC. But in reality, they replaced their oil filed intercooler with a clean intercooler and measured a small improvement when new on the oil free ic. But as the upgraded intercooler inevitably fills up with oil, most of the lowered IAT gains disappear. So 6 months later, if you measured again under similar weather conditions you'll find the gains are small to nill, because of the oil.

You can get most of the benefit of an IC upgrade, by simply cleaning your stock IC. The oil in the intake acts as an insulator and lowers the efficiency of the IC. In gasoline cars too, the oil lowers the octane of the fuel and causes the car to pull timing and reduce power. So cleaning the IC does most of the work, seriously.

Also increasing the size of the intercooler increases lag generally as it increases the volume of intake air space to be pressurized by the turbo, increasing the amount of time the turbo takes to pressurize that space. Too big an IC and your car will perform worse during transient behaviour.

*IC upgrades do help if you stock IC is a flow restriction aka lots of pressure drop, and if your intake air temps are constantly rising on back to back full throttle pulls. Then you will benefit from an IC upgrade. But you need to measure it against a clean ic, or your doing an apples to oranges comparison. Also you have to be under driving conditions where it will matter, basically doing back to back freeway pulls to high speed aka racing. If your not in that situation it makes little difference. Also when your running your turbos way outside their efficiency range when their blowing mostly heat, better heat dissipation can help, but a turbo upgrade would be better....

[nicklockard]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

(SNIP) For most cars an IC upgrade should be a last resort for performance gains. There are ussually far better bang for the buck upgrades to be made especially on stock cars to improve performance. aka start with a tune. (SNIPPED)...

I do generally think this is right. However, in persistently hot climate zones line SWFL or AZ, an upgraded intercooler ** can help preserve more consistent performance from even a stock tune, and should strongly be considered once going past stage 1 tunes. Not required, but also not unhelpful, IMO.

Plus, on the 335d, the hot-side turbo couplings are C.R.A.P --absolute garbage and ALWAYS fail in hot climates. An IC upgrade is the first legitimate step to resolution, as the Forge boost hose is barely any better.

---my $0.02

** upgraded here is the key--the new IC MUST flow with same or less restriction as a stock IC at a given boost level over stock. Many OTS units don't meet this criteria.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by Thecastle

For most cars an IC upgrade should be a last resort for performance gains. There are ussually far better bang for the buck upgrades to be made especially on stock cars to improve performance. aka start with a tune.

As others have said, you can "upgrade" you intercooler on stock and tuned cars. However, the benefit is generally small on most cars*. I call it the intercooler placebo effect, they think their car runs better becasue they upgraded their IC. But in reality, they replaced their oil filed intercooler with a clean intercooler and measured a small improvement when new on the oil free ic. But as the upgraded intercooler inevitably fills up with oil, most of the lowered IAT gains disappear. So 6 months later, if you measured again under similar weather conditions you'll find the gains are small to nill, because of the oil.

You can get most of the benefit of an IC upgrade, by simply cleaning your stock IC. The oil in the intake acts as an insulator and lowers the efficiency of the IC. In gasoline cars too, the oil lowers the octane of the fuel and causes the car to pull timing and reduce power. So cleaning the IC does most of the work, seriously.

Also increasing the size of the intercooler increases lag generally as it increases the volume of intake air space to be pressurized by the turbo, increasing the amount of time the turbo takes to pressurize that space. Too big an IC and your car will perform worse during transient behaviour.

*IC upgrades do help if you stock IC is a flow restriction aka lots of pressure drop, and if your intake air temps are constantly rising on back to back full throttle pulls. Then you will benefit from an IC upgrade. But you need to measure it against a clean ic, or your doing an apples to oranges comparison. Also you have to be under driving conditions where it will matter, basically doing back to back freeway pulls to high speed aka racing. If your not in that situation it makes little difference. Also when your running your turbos way outside their efficiency range when their blowing mostly heat, better heat dissipation can help, but a turbo upgrade would be better....

Good points. I did notice a longer lag for transient situation when you just step to full throttle from low rpms. Actually, now it is much more noticeable when the big turbo kicks in. @DWR recommended lengthening the changeover valve to move the big turbo comming in at lower rpm. I'm running a 2.8 Jarek tune. However, before changing the changeover valve I wanted to rule out any vacuum losses due to leaks in the motor mounts for instance.

[Mik325tds]

Originally Posted by iaknown

Yea, sounds like you may have something else going on here. You shouldn't have any noticeable lag with the big turbo, shouldn't require adjustment either.

That might have been misunderstandable. What I meant was that the torque increase when the large turbo kicks in is much more noticeable now. But I'll still want to do due diligence if there is a vacuum leak somewhere.

[3d Turbo]

Originally Posted by Darth Maul

I did read the thread, I've also seen tuners say that an intercooler requires a tune as well so I'm still not fully convinced, anyone else run an IC on stock tune?

Hey Maul. You can 100% run the intercooler on a car with a stock/factory tune. The vehicle will compensate for the change without any issues. I've run this intercooler on two 335ds now and both were stock tune when I installed it. Hope that helps!

[Nordlight]

Originally Posted by 3d Turbo

Hey Maul. You can 100% run the intercooler on a car with a stock/factory tune. The vehicle will compensate for the change without any issues. I've run this intercooler on two 335ds now and both were stock tune when I installed it. Hope that helps!

I know its an old post but I couldnt find it anything else about ATM intercooler for 335D .
I ordered this IC , also upper hose for cold side and sent ECU for stage 2 tune by AA Rodriguez
3D Turbo can You share some more info , you've been driving for almost half a year with it .
I know You said car made 10 more hp and CACT shows much lower temps . Been reading that some people say that bigger IC creates even more lug in 335D ? Whats your opinion .
I live in Los Angeles , it has been one hot summer this year . So hoping I didnt spend all this money for nothing . Any info will be appreciated
Thanks in advance for your answer

[dmanb2b]

I have been running my ATM FMIC for about a year now and have about 25K miles on it. Engine screams in cooler temps and barely noticeable temp rise in mid summer, even on long uphill pulls. No bogging that I am aware of.

[Nordlight]

Originally Posted by dmanb2b

I have been running my ATM FMIC for about a year now and have about 25K miles on it. Engine screams in cooler temps and barely noticeable temp rise in mid summer, even on long uphill pulls. No bogging that I am aware of.

Thanks for input man
ATM IC and the rest is stock ?

[E_Fahlman]

Dammit I bought my Intercooler back on July 4th when it was on sale and I’m just getting around to installing it today. And just noticed it was on a better sale for Black Friday today. Kind of ironic

[E_Fahlman]

Originally Posted by Torqu3

Awesome! I'll add it to my DIY guides. Appreciate the writeup!

So i’ll add my 2 cents to the tutorial. Credits to the OP as my Intercooler had no instructions and I was using only this guide until I found the PDF on ATM Website about half way through my install.

Also 2 hours is optimistic. Took me about 4-6 hours over 2 days but I had troubles with a few things.

1. There’s a T27 Bolt Passenger Side Top of the Electric Fan Shroud that needs to be removed that wasn’t noted

2. The Electric Fan needs to be removed from the top side. (I wasted about 20 mins trying to drop it out from the bottom of the car)

3. My cars a 2009 and I needed an Angle Grinder to trim back some of the plastic at the bottom of the fan shroud to fit the ATM Intercooler in. Upon actually getting it in there and after everything was bolted up I probably didn’t need to trim any of it but it sure made it easier after I tested fitted likely three times with no luck of getting it straight

4. I used a little All Purpose Grease on the Silicon Boots to make it easier to slide on the Intercooler or the Turbo Outlet.

Again TY so much to 3D Turbo his pictures were essential. Furthermore the weather in Vancouver BC was only 10 Celsius and Raining today so I noticed absolutely no difference with the new Intercooler but I will report back in the Spring.

[Goboro100]

I was trying to install the ATM Intercooler and intake. None of that shit fits right

[Goboro100]

Absolute nightmare I don’t know how the hell the ic is so heavy. The ic is way too heavy only Supposed to be held up by two little screws that are screw onto plastic. None of it looked right ic sat way too low all the way down past the bumper, could bottom out break everything anytime. All the pipes Just way too big not enough room. I want to sell it or return it

[BB_cuda]

Which chassis do you have? e90 pretty easy. I did go to H/w store and got slightly longer screws to hold IC to the upper supports. I guess I had slightly stripped the plastic tapped threading. I think I used #14 size. Take screws with you to get right diameter and also to know you slightly increased length.
You’re not doing something right if it’s hanging down below bumper.
Installing into E70 is definately a lot more work.

[Goboro100]

I want this thing in my car but I also didn’t take the time to remove the fan shroud. They provide the long screws which is nice. But really if I don’t have hybrid turbo do you really need $750 bucks in an intercooler?

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

Which chassis do you have? e90 pretty easy. I did go to H/w store and got slightly longer screws to hold IC to the upper supports. I guess I had slightly stripped the plastic tapped threading. I think I used #14 size. Take screws with you to get right diameter and also to know you slightly increased length.
You’re not doing something right if it’s hanging down below bumper.
Installing into E70 is definately a lot more work.

[BB_cuda]

Job easier with shroud out of the way. Shroud isn’t hard to remove either.

[e90Noobie]

Originally Posted by Goboro100

I want this thing in my car but I also didn’t take the time to remove the fan shroud. They provide the long screws which is nice. But really if I don’t have hybrid turbo do you really need $750 bucks in an intercooler?

Unless you're racing the car then you really don't need it until you get into the really aggressive tunes.