[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by rick100

I find 90% of the people online bashing k and n filter are the ones that never used it and just read the bad stuff on other forums

I also find about 80% of people that actually used or are using k and n filter are happy with the product

Because of the work I do , I tend do have days that I literally have nothing to do , and the internet is my only distraction. So I got lost on different forums where the k and n filter is discussed. Almost every car forum has a topic on this and almost every forum has the same type of response.

Guys that never used it , bash it , like the filter ruined their car, even though they have never used it. Then you have the guys that are using it or used it come and say they have pretty good experience. Then you have very few that said they used it and it was crap and I would even say half of them are lying and never used the product, these last group is very very minor

Bottom line to me is k and n filters have been around for ages, back when I was still in high school ( 20 years ago) I remember seeing them on cars . Almost all the car guys that I know or talk have used it at some point and I have never heard one of them say k and n filter ruined my car. I have personally put over 200 000 miles on my civic that already had k and n filter when I bought it from last owner and never once had an issue with it . The BMW has been running great for the past 30 000 kms with k and n filter, pulls strong , no idle problems . I would also say that AA headers did not pulled as nice before I had the filter, so maybe someone running AA headers without a filter should just add k and n filter temporarily and confirm this. Power was there, but it was not as smooth and I had already drove 800 kms with the headers. Maybe it was just placebo effect

All I can say is that the problems seems to be when people re oiled the filter, or some defective filters that come over oil from factory ( some people claimed this) . I ve never seen or know someone that had an over oiled filter out of the box , but I guess it could be possible.

The other major claim is that it lets more dirt in the engine ( does not filter as well as oem), therefore reducing the life of it . The first part is true , that is where you get the " performance" , which to me feels more like responsiveness which can be translated into torque ( at least thats how I can described , as many other people running these filters). The second part I call BS. Many people running their engines well into the 200s-300s miles with these filters without having to change the engine. As a matter of fact I would say people are usually using k and n filter on older cars as it is a cheap mod so you would think these engines should not be able to handle such a bad filter letting all these dirt in

Anyways , to me is plain and simple , if you have not used it , then don't make claims that you read somewhere else.

Lastly german straigh 6 would probably say he used it now

I used k&n in my old n52. Had one in both the stock air box and a coned one for the euro air box. Had them because they tend to last forever but hp wise I doubt they made any difference.

Btw I pretty much had everything done to my N52 besides weight reduction, headers, or a super charger.

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by rjahl

How does a video clip after an exhaust mod relate to ECU adaption ? You have zero chance to pick up tonal differences in adaption values with your ears and standard Audio equipment.

Did you record the DME adaption values at intervals?


K&N. others will jump in on this.

the ECU must change ignition/fuel timing in order to adapt to the modification in exhaust flow. the exhaust note and overall engine sound was notably different 100KM into the whole process VS 500KM later when everything was done. engine felt peppier as well.

[rick100]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

I used k&n in my old n52. Had one in both the stock air box and a coned one for the euro air box. Had them because they tend to last forever but hp wise I doubt they made any difference.

I agree, but the general consensus is that the car becomes more responsive which I truly believe is because of the small gain in torque ( rather then HP).

I can not confirm on the torque or HP numbers as I have never dyno my car after doing a k an n filter , but I can confirm on the responsiveness effect. I had the same effect on my moms sentra and my older mazda 3. If it is placebo effect, then its a damn good one !

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by German Straight-6

the ECU must change ignition/fuel timing in order to adapt to the modification in exhaust flow. the exhaust note and overall engine sound was notably different 100KM into the whole process VS 500KM later when everything was done. engine felt peppier as well.

The ECU automatically adjusts the fuel mixture to the target values in real time, always. The trim or adaptations are the values stored to help the DME achieve the target values quicker, measured in milliseconds. You are not going to run lean for 200 miles after a mod.

If you hear adapting after an exhaust mod, it's the metal changing tone after being subjected to heat.

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by rjahl

The ECU automatically adjusts the fuel mixture to the target values in real time, always. The trim or adaptations are the values stored to help the DME achieve the target values quicker, measured in milliseconds. You are not going to run lean for 200 miles after a mod.

If you hear adapting after an exhaust mod, it's the metal changing tone after being subjected to heat.

I still think it is a mixture of both. I've tested on more then one car with different exhaust mods and it always took 500KM to fully adjust whenever you add something new.

also, when you increase exhaust flow this does cause a lean condition, but the ECU automatically compensates by dumping more fuel so you are actually running rich during this frame.

the ECU will not continue to run rich after your first full throttle pull (where the ECU takes a big leap in learning whatever you've done to your car) but it will not be quite done yet.

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by BimmerGeeks

Completely incorrect. That is not how the dme works. As usual, your full of it.

You know who that is right?

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by BimmerGeeks

Completely incorrect. That is not how the dme works. As usual, your full of it.

Okay, so let me get this straight. I've done some research on this matter, tried some real-world testing on my own car and noted that the exhaust sounded completely different when i first did the mod VS. 500KM later. so you essentially walk in here and disproved my ideas without any ideas or theories to back it up? you're dead serious right? how do you expect anyone to learn anything unless you come up with your own reasoning or ideas?

have you even done anything to your exhaust and compared the sound after 500KM yourself? or my ideas and logical findings are just incorrect as usual, and your base-less claim with not a single theory in sight is correct?

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

You know who that is right?

thank you for your recommendation regarding the M3 control-arms.

[German Straight-6]

Originally Posted by BimmerGeeks

Yes. I have. I've actually fitted MANY custom exhaust & monitored & logged live data including adaptations on more BMW's than years you've been alive.

Real data, real monitoring using tools meant for the job, not a camera recording a video and basing it off the sound.

This is why I say your incorrect. It's fine to come up with your own theories, but use the words "maybe", "I think" "possibly" etc.. you pass it off as facts for others to read, who then pass it on as facts & information is spread throughout the forum that is incorrect. This is why you are continually banned & will be re-banned again tomorrow.

why does the exhaust sound change after 500KM? does the metal piping break-in or something?

how long does it take to fully adapt? full throttle pulls speed this process up, correct?

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by German Straight-6

I still think it is a mixture of both. I've tested on more then one car with different exhaust mods and it always took 500KM to fully adjust whenever you add something new.

also, when you increase exhaust flow this does cause a lean condition, but the ECU automatically compensates by dumping more fuel so you are actually running rich during this frame.

the ECU will not continue to run rich after your first full throttle pull (where the ECU takes a big leap in learning whatever you've done to your car) but it will not be quite done yet.

Again, where do you get this?

The ECU corrects the fuel mixture in real time, like revolution by revolution. If it the 02 sensors measure a mixture that does not match the target, the DME will make an immediate adjustment and add that value to the short term trim table. It will not allow the engine to run rich or lean outside of the target values. It's called "close loop" for a reason. Please don't continue to spread "Urban legends" on this forum.

[hassmaschine]

Originally Posted by German Straight-6

...

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by German Straight-6

thank you for your recommendation regarding the M3 control-arms.

Quit sucking up. Are you banned yet, again?

[rjahl]

Originally Posted by tlow98

Quit sucking up. Are you banned yet, again?

Yep,

He's gone........until the next time.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by rjahl

Yep,

He's gone........until the next time.

Ah, calm seas.