[MachinesWithSouls]

Take this, the airbag issue, VWs cheating, and now the Japanese steel issue, and it's become clear that the auto industry itself could use a refresh.

New BMWs might be uninspiring to drive, but the quality is there, and they sell more than ever before. In the end, that's all they are concerned about. Pretty sure Hans and Frans are not pouring over the latest issue of Car and Driver wondering why their 5 Series finishes last in tests.

[IB M]

Originally Posted by BorisBulldog

When you produce uninspiring cars it makes sense to go find dirt and snitch on your competitor.

Yea Merc is jealous that they can't produce anything that appeals to those under 60 years old.

[SleevedCoyote]

Not the first time Merc and VW has had some alliance stuff going on. Better team up with the big VW which means teaming up with Audi and Porsche as well, much easier to snitch on BMW then lol. From this day and forth, I shall call them:

Snitchcedes Benz
Snitchwagen (SW)

[BorisBulldog]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

You talking about BMW?

Ive owned a Mercedes and an Audi and presently own two BMWs

That answer your question?

[MSCD]

Generally no smoke without fire. If Mercedes have said 'we'll help' and VW too that doesn't exonerated them from wrong and just make BMW the bad party.

Someone should check on the billions the EU wastes.... highly over paid MEP's. This is just a way to prop up their coffers as well....

Shame. Maybe my next car will be lower priced.

[F32Fleet]

I have mixed feelings over this. On one hand are auto manufacturers guilty if in response to emissions regulations they collaborate on the standardization of said equipment?

On the other hand there are plenty of things that the Deutsche 3 could price fix over such as sheet metal, tires, fuel injectors, and transmissions (ZF).


I eagerly await the response from Berlin because the Deutsche 3 are a huge part of the German economy and the govt needs all the tax revenue it can get.

[cc3]

Originally Posted by Railgun

Good luck with that

Yes looking forward to life outside of the EU

[Laki021]

This is natural cooperation between companies and should be legal.
At the end customers are the ones profiting the most by getting better and cheaper cars.

Full support to the BMW in this case. Obviously they are the only big German producer left unscratched by the Dieselgate (congrats!), so why should they be better then the other kids, lets find find something else to fine them.


On the other hand, shameful behaviour of Mercedes and the European Commission which is strongly and openly promoting this kind of snitching behaviour.

[VT-man]

Originally Posted by N & M

I cannot believe the amount of anti BMW sentiment in what is supposed to be a BMW fan site. Amazing how I never cease to be amazed by the toxic nature of Human emotions.

Agreed 100%
It's funny, right?

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Laki021

This is natural cooperation between companies and should be legal.
At the end customers are the ones profiting the most by getting better and cheaper cars.

Full support to the BMW in this case. Obviously they are the only big German producer left unscratched by the Dieselgate (congrats!), so why should they be better then the other kids, lets find find something else to fine them.


On the other hand, shameful behaviour of Mercedes and the European Commission which is strongly and openly promoting this kind of snitching behaviour.

Is it if they use their collaboration to obtain a lower price on a part at the expense of a competitor that's not a "member" of the cartel?

[E90M3velocity]

How do you know they are passing the savings to the customers? I don't see the prices going down, just going up. That is like saying "Reagonomics" work, well if only everybody had a sense of fairness.

Originally Posted by Laki021

This is natural cooperation between companies and should be legal.
At the end customers are the ones profiting the most by getting better and cheaper cars.

Full support to the BMW in this case. Obviously they are the only big German producer left unscratched by the Dieselgate (congrats!), so why should they be better then the other kids, lets find find something else to fine them.


On the other hand, shameful behaviour of Mercedes and the European Commission which is strongly and openly promoting this kind of snitching behaviour.

[Viffermike]

These threads are more entertaining than most reality TV shows because of how clueless (or pseudo-clueless in the case of those posts that are farcical, in which case: most of you need to work on your humor chops) people are.

How can fanboys be so negative? Read any fan site of any sports team. Not new. Been around forever.

Benz not not building anything that appeals to those under 60? You must be getting it confused with Cadillac. Plenty of sorority Mercs and AMG bromancing in my city.

Benz cooperating with the EU? Blame VW for all of that -- and that's likely why VW is cooperating, too. VW can't afford another Dieselgate. To Benz, BMW is fundamentally nothing more than a petulant younger stepsibling.

Collusion, a good thing? Not for anyone but suits. It's not good for consumers, not good for labor, not good for product quality, not good for R&D, not good for any sort of competitive, open-market economic model. But it happens because suits are suits who only answer to other suits -- both themselves and the ones in government.

Finally: Great Britain leaving the EU because of its ineffectiveness? Typical island mentality (pun intended). Let's see how it feels in 10 years after Scotland and Wales leave the Commonwealth and Ireland is united, which is what will happen if Britain goes through with it. It may as well start calling itself Albion again.

[Matski]

Originally Posted by Agni

Additionally, Car makers no longer have any power, they gave it all to suppliers. Nowadays Magna Steyr does all the car manufacturing, just as Foxconn makes Galaxy phones, iPhones, Xbox, Playstation.

Fact check. Last year Steyr made 2.3% of BMW Group's total production... Even if you included VDL and the partner plants in India, Egypt, Malaysia, Russia and indonesia, BMW still manufacture 92.6% of their automobiles.

So yeah... "Nowadays Magna Steyr does all the car manufacturing"....

[Matski]

Originally Posted by MSCD

If Mercedes have said 'we'll help' and VW too =

They haven't said, "we'll help". They said "Now you have us by the balls, in order to avoid paying any fines for our potentially criminal activities, we'll snitch on the opposition."

... commendable. NOT.

[clbmw]

Am hoping the suits who colluded are the same ones that decided moving to FWD was a good idea and refused to M and i produce a car. Sack them and 3 problems solved for the price of one

[goj]

I'll wait to see what the investigation leads to. Also it's pretty weak that a company of potential equal guilt can get off of easier by being a whistle blower

[Falafel Combo]

This would never happen if they sold more cars with manual transmission.

[Killed by Death]

Maybe American car makers need to conspire since we don't have one single decent manufacture

[Yeru]

And who gets to investigate the car-castrating Eurocrats in Brussels?

[Agni]

Originally Posted by N & M

I cannot believe the amount of anti BMW sentiment in what is supposed to be a BMW fan site. Amazing how I never cease to be amazed by the toxic nature of Human emotions.

Did you expect us to be lemmings and not speak up when we see things going to shit?

[Laki021]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Is it if they use their collaboration to obtain a lower price on a part at the expense of a competitor that's not a "member" of the cartel?

I would encourage more of them collaborate. More standardized parts, the better for everyone.
Then, there is a big question, what is legal and what not... Why is it OK for Mercedes to share the whole same engine with Renault and Dacia (1.5dci), but it's not Ok to agree with BMW about the size of the adBlue tank?

Second thing, simple example. VAG is making ~12milon cars per year, why would e.g. BMW (2.5mil) not be allowed to collaborate with some other manufacturer in order to achieve similar economy of scale and negotiation power as VAG already has alone?

Originally Posted by E90M3velocity

How do you know they are passing the savings to the customers? I don't see the prices going down, just going up. That is like saying "Reagonomics" work, well if only everybody had a sense of fairness.

Because the margins in car industry are very low. BMW is operating with 8.5%, VW 1.5% Merc, 7%, so the prices are very fair I would say and the savings are passed to the final consumers (the competition is forcing them to do so).
It is even too competitive industry, really no reason to prevent them from cooperating.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

This would never happen if they sold more cars with manual transmission.