[saeyedoc]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Buy a 991S, drive it 3 years, sell it for close to what you paid for it. lol @ $2k/month for a boxster. You could buy a 991.1 GT3 for that kind of money

Yeah, I bought my '13C2S with 25k miles CPO two years ago for $75k, MSRP $129k. Not sure if I could buy the same car for that now if I could find one. Only depreciation really is for miles and stealer profit if you trade it.

[spectrumphoto]

I lease all my vehicles under my company name these days. The tax benefits I have gotten out of it have soo far outweighed the "nothing to show for it" at the end of the lease.

But what I really love is the Porsche dealer Docs "Market Value Selling Price" line. Any dealer using such language I would stay far far away from.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by ASAP

did you just compare a new lease to a used car purchase?

Always - because every car you drive is used. The second you drive it off the lot, it is a used car. Makes little difference to most sensible people if, a month later, the car is a month old or six month old and if it has 1,000 miles on it or 6,000 miles.

Financially, no one who has less than a million dollar net worth should buy a brand new car, the depreciation is so huge, that to eliminate that much of your capital when you aren't a millionaire is just silly.

[Red Bread]

So we should all buy used Corollas, got it.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

Always - because every car you drive is used. The second you drive it off the lot, it is a used car. Makes little difference to most sensible people if, a month later, the car is a month old or six month old and if it has 1,000 miles on it or 6,000 miles.

Financially, no one who has less than a million dollar net worth should buy a brand new car, the depreciation is so huge, that to eliminate that much of your capital when you aren't a millionaire is just silly.

I get what you are saying, I would just say its much more fair to compare new to new... leasing a new car when the residuals are artificially high (as bmw's were in the past) and the potential tax advantage business owners could get does come out at times cheaper than the depreciation on the purchase of a new car... I'm a CPO man myself but I do see the lease attraction. BMWs leases are no longer cheap so FWIW resale values will be better and leasing prob will now be far more exp.

[saeyedoc]

I agree with ASAP, in some cases (not Porsche) it can be advantageous to lease when they are subsidized by the manufacturer. Add in tax advantages and it can be a no brainer. In some states though it's awful to buy at the end of the lease because you have to pay tax on the residual after already paying it on the entire purchase price.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

Always - because every car you drive is used. The second you drive it off the lot, it is a used car. Makes little difference to most sensible people if, a month later, the car is a month old or six month old and if it has 1,000 miles on it or 6,000 miles.

Then you should compare leasing a used demo or loaner. A new car is always more expensive than used. I don't need a CPA to tell me that.

[Machinebuilder]

If your considering a Porsche you should check this guys videos https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Q...nsU8egEDEt9nGw I don't anything more about him than he/they go by JP & Co on Youtube where I found them. He is a really smart guy and really takes a serious analytical approach to Porsche ownership costs. You can get alot of insight in determining what deal is best for you.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

No you can't, show me a 991.1 GT3 for 103K I'll buy 10. You can barely buy a clean 997.2 GT3 for that money.

I didn't say you could get a 991.1 GT3 for $103k, I said you can get one for $2k/month budget. There have been several on rennlist in the $115-120k range, plu they have a 10 year warranty on the engine. Put down $10k and you have a $2k/mo payment for 60 months. After 36 months you'll have a ton of equity, meanwhile with the Boxster you'll have zero, and a car that isn't nearly as awesome as a GT3.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by saeyedoc

Yeah, I bought my '13C2S with 25k miles CPO two years ago for $75k, MSRP $129k. Not sure if I could buy the same car for that now if I could find one. Only depreciation really is for miles and stealer profit if you trade it.

I bought my 2012.5 991S with 34k miles for $58k. I drove it for two years and sold it with 41k miles for $67k. Definitely can't do that leasing a new Boxster!

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

Bing! you win a prize. Yes, it is almost always more expense to buy a brand new car over a CPO. So the question begs, then, why buy new? Can't really compare a CPO or used vehicle lease, as they are no where nearly as incentivized on the residual as a new car is by the OEM, so the lease rates on a used vehicle are usually even far worse than a new one - it would just make my comparison even more accurate.

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but leasing a current model year demo/loaner from BMW or Porsche is cheaper than new. I'm not talking about CPO cars 2-3 years old.

[CosmosMpower]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

I bought my 2012.5 991S with 34k miles for $58k. I drove it for two years and sold it with 41k miles for $67k. Definitely can't do that leasing a new Boxster!

Sounds like you stole the car from a sucker when you bought it. The money is made in the buying not the selling. You can't normally do that with a non GT 911 either, you got very lucky.

[dgoldenz]

https://forum.leasehackr.com/ would beg to differ that leasing is not a good idea. It all depends on the lease. I have seen lease deals with $0 paid up front for as little as 0.4% of MSRP per month, which is insane.

[Captain Blood]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

https://forum.leasehackr.com/ would beg to differ that leasing is not a good idea. It all depends on the lease. I have seen lease deals with $0 paid up front for as little as 0.4% of MSRP per month, which is insane.

OMG! I just hit a link that had "hackr" in the address. How stupid am !?!?

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by alex2364

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but leasing a current model year demo/loaner from BMW or Porsche is cheaper than new. I'm not talking about CPO cars 2-3 years old.

I was referring to a properly used car. Demo/Loaner cars aren't titled, so technically, they are still new cars with an MSO.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

Sounds like you stole the car from a sucker when you bought it. The money is made in the buying not the selling. You can't normally do that with a non GT 911 either, you got very lucky.

I got a good deal, yes, but it just goes to show that if you know you're buying you can drive a 911 with little to no depreciation. The market wasn't as good 2.5 years ago and the car was in an accident prior, but I knew it would always be at the bottom of the 991 market and the market has been extremely strong the last two years. Just look at the "hot for sale" thread in the 991 forum on Rennlist, cars at at the same price they were 2 years ago with higher mileage now. I'll take the 911 with little to no depreciation over paying $60k to rent a Boxster.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

https://forum.leasehackr.com/ would beg to differ that leasing is not a good idea. It all depends on the lease. I have seen lease deals with $0 paid up front for as little as 0.4% of MSRP per month, which is insane.

Hmm, a suspect forum website for a bunch of people trying to justify their poor financial decision? Yeah, I'll take that source over math. You bet.

.4% of MSRP with zero due at signing? I'm calling your bluff on this one - please provide this lease. That would be a $140/mo payment on a $35,000 car.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

Hmm, a suspect forum website for a bunch of people trying to justify their poor financial decision? Yeah, I'll take that source over math. You bet.

.4% of MSRP with zero due at signing? I'm calling your bluff on this one - please provide this lease. That would be a $140/mo payment on a $35,000 car.

There have been a number of deals posted for $26-30k cars for $100-120/mo with $0 out of pocket. Search the forum, I'm not going to waste my time looking for them again.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

There have been a number of deals posted for $26-30k cars for $100-120/mo with $0 out of pocket. Search the forum, I'm not going to waste my time looking for them again.

Gotcha - you make a dubious and unsubstantiated claim and then tell me to prove it for ya.

Yeah, lemmie get right on that.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

Gotcha - you make a dubious and unsubstantiated claim and then tell me to prove it for ya.

Yeah, lemmie get right on that.

I didn’t ask you to prove anything, I said go look for yourself if you want to find them. They are there. Or you can just keep telling yourself that leasing is NEVER a better deal than buying, which is just stupid. Never say never. OPs “offer” is clearly horrible though, Porsche’s always have terrible lease rates especially considering how well they hold value.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

I didn’t ask you to prove anything, I said go look for yourself if you want to find them. They are there. Or you can just keep telling yourself that leasing is NEVER a better deal than buying, which is just stupid. Never say never. OPs “offer” is clearly horrible though, Porsche’s always have terrible lease rates especially considering how well they hold value.

I'm just calling it like I see it. I think your statement of those super low lease payments is inaccurate and wrong. I called you on it. If you want to back up that claim, it is up to you to do so. If you don't want to back it up, that's fine with me.

As someone who spent nearly two decades in executive management within the car industry, I can categorically say that in almost all instances, leasing a new vehicle is one of, if not the absolute most expensive way to buy a car. But you keep doing you.

If you enjoy leasing - good for you! You are welcome to continue to do so, but don't stand around talking like it's a good deal to make yourself feel better, cause math is math.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I'm just calling it like I see it. I think your statement of those super low lease payments is inaccurate and wrong. I called you on it. If you want to back up that claim, it is up to you to do so. If you don't want to back it up, that's fine with me.

As someone who spent nearly two decades in executive management within the car industry, I can categorically say that in almost all instances, leasing a new vehicle is one of, if not the absolute most expensive way to buy a car. But you keep doing you.

If you enjoy leasing - good for you! You are welcome to continue to do so, but don't stand around talking like it's a good deal to make yourself feel better, cause math is math.

They were easier to find than I thought.

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/fire-...ire-fire/22891

$121/mo for a $38k Bolt

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/2017-...-nj-ny/31788/2

How about a $50k BMW for $54/month?

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/2017-...-216-tax/32217

Or a $52k 330i for $216/mo?

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/2018-...l-237-mo/39464

Or a $60k Volvo for $237/mo?

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/succe...k-506-mo/32648

$87k F-type S for $500/mo? Sounds decent.

https://forum.leasehackr.com/t/2017-...-a-month/19260

Even found a $144k F-type SVR for $748/mo, that ain't bad either.



Clearly, buying is always better.