[E90Boy]

Sounds like drag racing is not a good idea against them. What do you think if they were to race on the track?

[cbrant]

on a road course the 335 should likely win, a big turbo is generally just for the straight line and pure power, not handling.

chances are he'll be dragging alot of lag around the track whereas the 335 wont

[NYBMW335]

Throw some turns in, and that bad boy is history. Here is the thing, with a big turbo you have lots of lag, so either you have to keep that car reving really high, which then will have to much power for turns, or the power will come in unexpected which will be very hard to drive, specially if boost hits in the middle of a corner.

[BimmerFan61]

I had a 92 GSX back in 1992! Put a big Garret in it. HKS ECU, electronic boost controller, catless etc..

I ran about 21 PSI (that was good for back then!). Car was quick. I cant even fathom 35psi. The turbo lag is huge but when the turbo kicked in it would throw you back hard.

[possible335i2008]

he will destroy you on the dragstrip...my brother in law had an gsx running 32 and was in the the high 10's plus its all wheel drive, those things are crazy fast, if it were a road course you would have him but on a strip he will murder you: tell him to save his 500$ and his ego

[hotrod2448]

It's a DSM odds are you will win because it will break....but, if it holds together prepare to have your ass handed to you.

J/K.

As said before those cars can be incredibly quick when modded and still not look or sound like anything special at all.

[94JZA80]

Originally Posted by Spool

Prolly got one of these bad boys strapped to that Eclipse

LOL actually, with a turbo THAT big on the 4G63, the OP might actually get to 100mph before the Eclipse even spools up. after that, prepare to get passed like you're standing still.

Originally Posted by E90Boy

The engine is stock and it was rebuilt. I'm not sure if he put forge internals or whatnot, but isn't 35psi really high for a 2.0L? I know EVOs and STIs can have high boost up to the 40s. I just don't know how strong the GSX are.

pressure = force per unit surface area...in other words, 35psi in a 2.0L motor as the same amount of pressure as 35psi on a 6.0L motor. displacement has nothing to do with resistance to boost pressure. however, how strong its internals are DOES have alot to do with resistance to boost pressure. whether he used forged internals or not though, the fact of the matter is that they are stronger than the OEM parts he replaced. people don't run around boosting 35psi on a stock 4G63 block often (not to my knowledge anyways).


oh yeah - as for the race, i vote nay as well!

[E(@M#]

rofl....looking around at some numbers...with similar psi...etc....hes runnung around c6z06 times/speed....safe to say...you will lose...only by a little though

aside from that...this kid is a fucking mook.....im sure he knows plenty about cars...to challenge a car that is hardly a straight-liner....i hope his shit breaks

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by 94JZA80

LOL actually, with a turbo THAT big on the 4G63, the OP might actually get to 100mph before the Eclipse even spools up. after that, prepare to get passed like you're standing still.



pressure = force per unit surface area...in other words, 35psi in a 2.0L motor as the same amount of pressure as 35psi on a 6.0L motor. displacement has nothing to do with resistance to boost pressure. however, how strong its internals are DOES have alot to do with resistance to boost pressure. whether he used forged internals or not, the fact of the matter is that they are stronger than the OEM parts he replaced. people don't run around boosting 35psi on a stock 4G63 block (not to my knowledge anyways).

There are a few Evo's who run that kind of pressure on stock internals for how long is a matter of debate but, they can take it for a little while at least. I'm not sure how the internal of DSM compare to what they stuffed in the Evo but they are both 4G63's.

[94JZA80]

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

There are a few Evo's who run that kind of pressure on stock internals for how long is a matter of debate but, they can take it for a little while at least. I'm not sure how the internal of DSM compare to what they stuffed in the Evo but they are both 4G63's.

i withdraw my previous statement...i'll go back and edit it slightly . regardless, the 35psi figure alone would be enough to make me want to decline the race if i were in a 335i, OEM internals or not.

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by E90Boy

The engine is stock and it was rebuilt. I'm not sure if he put forge internals or whatnot, but isn't 35psi really high for a 2.0L? I know EVOs and STIs can have high boost up to the 40s. I just don't know how strong the GSX are.

If it was a rebuilt engine, then I'm more than 90% sure the guy went with forged internals. The cost of an oem block is usually more than a good 2.0L built motor.

The pressure 35psi is a relative term.
You need more specifics about the big turbo you're mentioning.
35psi on a 20g and 35psi on a gt35r or bigger will be a night and day difference.

If you have to let me guess, I would say GT35r or bigger because 20g's efficiency falls on its face at 35psi.

If he has his headwork done also, 35psi is not high at all on 2.0L.
Some drag evo's see 50+psi with 42r producing upwards of 1000+whp.

To me, it sounds like the DSM guy is making upwards of 600whp with a 35r or bigger. But then again, 35psi is only obtainable with race gas so the type of gas he will be using at the race will also be a determining factor.

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by Brianbmwboy

BMW's get out of the hole hard, and with a V3 his should be into the twelves, and that is no joke for some cobbled together mitsu with boost that takes 5 seconds to build at which point you may be well down the track.

Lastly, remember, that thing could go 300 mph, but it's still no BMW.

Not as hard as awd. And if the guy's using 35r or bigger, its an easy 10sec car.

I don't know where the launch control is set for DSMs, but 5500-6000rpm two step launch control = launch like bat out of hell.

Bottom line, the v3 335i will most likely have no chance at all.

[judec]

the guy has a monster sleeper - looks like your bro was intended to be the next one in the line of his cars sponsors. If U just take in to account how cheap he can buy such a car and mod it, let's say 7-8k for mods, it's enough for him to find 10-15 cocky EU-import owners to get his initial investition back. And if he's wise enough, he'll modulate the throttle to win the first race just a few feet max and make U pay double for your next "chance"...

[longodj]

omg don't race :-P he'll be destroyed

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by cbrant

on a road course the 335 should likely win, a big turbo is generally just for the straight line and pure power, not handling.

chances are he'll be dragging alot of lag around the track whereas the 335 wont

This is really not the case.

Unless he's using something really large that's dedicated to 1/4mile only such as 42r, 74mm, t51r, t88 etc etc the spool isn't going to matter much unless its a really really tight road course.

Besides, who stays at 2000-3000rpm on a road course?

[Curt2000]

Originally Posted by Choolgooz

Whatchu gonna do Brotha!!

LMAO

+whatever # we are at now...your bro's gonna get his doors blown off

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by bdkevoIX

This is really not the case.

Unless he's using something really large that's dedicated to 1/4mile only such as 42r, 74mm, t51r, t88 etc etc the spool isn't going to matter much unless its a really really tight road course.

Besides, who stays at 2000-3000rpm on a road course?

Just curious, have you been to a road course?

Even the lag on the 335i, minimal as it is, annoys the crap outta me. The guy who carries the most speed through the corners often wins. When you are unable to determine when/how boost builds, as I imagine the case is with a large single turbo, you can't drive right at the limit through the corner since the power surge will overcome the remaining tire adhesion and you'll be going agricultural.

You can be "decent" with a high hp, high lag car. You just coast through the corners and hope you can catch up on the straights. I see it all the time at the track. Those guys (Vipers, Z06s, big ass turbo cars) usually get really misty eyed when that little Miata with a competent driver that pulls 1.5+Gs in the corners.... runs faster overall lap times.

[Evolunchbox]

you will lose, that is all

[///AFRO]

Originally Posted by E90Boy

Sounds like it'll be a bad loss. I'll just tell my brother to do a couple runs just for fun then. I'm interested in seeing what this guys got.

Bet aside, what do you guys think my brother will fair with if they do it from 20-30 roll to lets say 120ish? Big turbo has a lot of lag right, if we keep it low maybe the 335 won't lose as bad.

-1 just because it has a Big Turbo and it has a lag, doesnt mean his ganna lose, just wait until the lag is up and you Donzo..


Not to mention, if this guy is pushing 35psi, I think he knows how to drive it, Brake Boost anyone..?

[bdkevoIX]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Just curious, have you been to a road course?

Even the lag on the 335i, minimal as it is, annoys the crap outta me. The guy who carries the most speed through the corners often wins. When you are unable to determine when/how boost builds, as I imagine the case is with a large single turbo, you can't drive right at the limit through the corner since the power surge will overcome the remaining tire adhesion and you'll be going agricultural.

You can be "decent" with a high hp, high lag car. You just coast through the corners and hope you can catch up on the straights. I see it all the time at the track. Those guys (Vipers, Z06s, big ass turbo cars) usually get really misty eyed when that little Miata with a competent driver that pulls 1.5+Gs in the corners.... runs faster overall lap times.

To be honest with you, no I haven't been to a road course.
If I had road course in my mind, I would need a completely different tune.

But being on evo forum for 3 years and watched some of the tuners including my own tuner (DTM) winning alot of road course events, led me to a conclusion you can have a large turbo such as gt35r on a small displacement motor (2.3L stroker) and still be very competitive.

Usually these cars will have higher static compression ratio and lower boost (~18psi) to compensate for high EGTs so the boost will come on quicker.
Much less if you're staying above 5000rpm during a corner, you'll be able to build up boost instantly as you exit.

One of the fastest time attack evo's in this country (AMS TA evo) has a GT35r which some consider very very large. Not to mention HKS evo has a GT3252 or some sort which is a variant of GT35r. These cars don't get beat by likes of miata. And some of the cars you mentioned (viper, Z06) do not have lag because they lack turbochargers.

What's more important in road competition is combination of parts used, tune, and most importantly car weight and suspension set up.

[Brianbmwboy]

My bad for not noticing that he was talking about AWD, so it's possible that the car will launch very hard, although with a good driver so will the BMW.

The fastest street DSM cars i have ran into run into high 10's, and break transmissions all the time.

The number of DSM owners whose cars run 10's vs the number of DSM owners who THINK their car's run 10's and have 500+hp is about 1 in 50.

Were i the op, i would say screw it and go race the guy for fun. I would never bet money on any race as i have seen the most screwed up cars beat the fastest (e.g. I was racing a souped up integra that turn out to be a low 15 sec car with my previous m3 and lost due to a missed shift) unless i had money to burn.

DSM cars can be very fast, but there are a lot of factors that a big turbo alone don't rule out.

[hotrod2448]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

Just curious, have you been to a road course?

Even the lag on the 335i, minimal as it is, annoys the crap outta me. The guy who carries the most speed through the corners often wins. When you are unable to determine when/how boost builds, as I imagine the case is with a large single turbo, you can't drive right at the limit through the corner since the power surge will overcome the remaining tire adhesion and you'll be going agricultural.

You can be "decent" with a high hp, high lag car. You just coast through the corners and hope you can catch up on the straights. I see it all the time at the track. Those guys (Vipers, Z06s, big ass turbo cars) usually get really misty eyed when that little Miata with a competent driver that pulls 1.5+Gs in the corners.... runs faster overall lap times.

I've been to a road course with my Evo and you learn pretty quickly how the car will come on boost and how to adjust where and how you are picking up throttle for it. Grant it that was a stock turbo but, considering F1 used to run 1,000Hp+ 1.8 or 1.6 liter cars and they still managed to get them around road courses I'd say it can be done not to mention all the other series that allow turbo engines and road race.