[Smokey33]

You can't fade decent OEM brakes on the road, no chance. Either you've got aftermarket shit on, or ya brake fluid needs a change.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Smokey33

You can't fade decent OEM brakes on the road

Well, I was thinking that, but I wasn't going to say it

OP, what did you do when you lost your brakes?

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Well, I was thinking that, but I wasn't going to say it

OP, what did you do when you lost your brakes?

If you mean what was I doing, I had to brake very hard from high speed to a stop.

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by Smokey33

You can't fade decent OEM brakes on the road, no chance. Either you've got aftermarket shit on, or ya brake fluid needs a change.

Thanks for your insight

Granted, you shouldn't be able to fade your brakes on the road.

ATE discs with recently fitted Brembo front pads, which to be fair had been ok, obviously not as good as the ceramics they replaced.

The fluid was my first thought, it had been changed a little over a year ago, although for some reason I'd had it changed at my local STS, so as I stated in an earlier they'd have used dot 4 that meets minimum requirements which are lower than the Bmw fluid.

Had I not been driving like acunt I wouldn't have had an issue.

[nomiS330d]

That’s good to read about the lines being decent, that’s my next job as mine do look a little perished. You confirmed how much of a PITA they are to change so I’m not looking forward to it. As for the fluid, I changed mine a while ago with Halfords dot 4. I didn’t do any homework on it, just assumed brake fluid was brake fluid. When I do the lines I’ll make sure I use some quality stuff although I have to say after doing it last time the brake peddle felt a lot better, more positive.

[Tambohamilton]

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

If you mean what was I doing, I had to brake very hard from high speed to a stop.

I'm still surprised that this was enough to cause issue. I would have expected you'd need to do that at least twice in quick succession to have any bother...

I occasionally mechanic for a 325i that runs in the V4 class in VLN/NLS/NES races. Regs have them running stock calipers and discs, and only pads are upgraded. They use ATE discs and blue ATE fluid. Can't remember what the pads are, though I think they're pretty special! Anyhow, they never report any fade issues, and I can vouch for how hot the brakes are when they pit! I think they use HEL or goodridge lines, for what it's worth. The point of me mentioning this is that decent fluid is necessary, but nothing space-age. ATE discs are good; no reason to change them. Pads need to be very good, and are the main bit worth investing in. Unfortunately for road cars you have to choose a balance between outright performance and manners (low-temp feel, bite, noise, etc). Lines will help a little with feel, but again are a minor part of the puzzle.

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

I'm still surprised that this was enough to cause issue. I would have expected you'd need to do that at least twice in quick succession to have any bother...

I occasionally mechanic for a 325i that runs in the V4 class in VLN/NLS/NES races. Regs have them running stock calipers and discs, and only pads are upgraded. They use ATE discs and blue ATE fluid. Can't remember what the pads are, though I think they're pretty special! Anyhow, they never report any fade issues, and I can vouch for how hot the brakes are when they pit! I think they use HEL or goodridge lines, for what it's worth. The point of me mentioning this is that decent fluid is necessary, but nothing space-age. ATE discs are good; no reason to change them. Pads need to be very good, and are the main bit worth investing in. Unfortunately for road cars you have to choose a balance between outright performance and manners (low-temp feel, bite, noise, etc). Lines will help a little with feel, but again are a minor part of the puzzle.

I was also very surprised at losing what felt like maybe 70/80% if I had to put a figure on it of braking force.
There was a very, very strong smell of burnt friction material & there genuinely was a brief moment when I didn't think it would slow down enough.
It was the first time I had tried a hard stop at that speed with these pads. I had done the same kind of late hard braking before with the carbon pads without issue including a few laps at Lydd.

Anyways braking is now much better with the fresh fluid, how much of a difference have the lines made? Probably not much but at the very least they look good

As for the pads, if I had glazed them they seemed to have cleaned up & it all feels good now.....But I am going to refit some carbon pads up front & the rear pads also need changing.

[Tambohamilton]

Endless MA45B. Haven't found a price for them yet, but I think something like £200 per axle... Ouch.

[Chappers 71]

Have just ordered another set of EBC Red Stuff for the rears.
Am fairly sure that I will get a set of Brembo HP2000's for the front

[Chapperss]

Originally Posted by Chappers 71

Have just ordered another set of EBC Red Stuff for the rears.
Am fairly sure that I will get a set of Brembo HP2000's for the front

Not that the BM is comparable in weight but I never got on with EBC pads in the Clio - much preferred Brembo's and never managed to cook a set, unlike the EBC`s.

Cant remember if they were Red or Yellows but upshot is I'm a Brembo fan boy now.

[Tambohamilton]

Too many Chappers in this thread now

[nomiS330d]

I too was surprised just one heavy braking from admittedly high speed was enough to cook the brakes. My 330d has the same large brakes as chappers 335i which I would have though more than up to one high speed stop. As I’ve only recently changed all 8 pads I’m not going to replace them but will be doing the pipes and fluid soon. Need to find out what’s the best fluid to use. Don’t want race stuff that needs changing frequently. What’s recommended?

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by nomiS330d

I too was surprised just one heavy braking from admittedly high speed was enough to cook the brakes. My 330d has the same large brakes as chappers 335i which I would have though more than up to one high speed stop. As I’ve only recently changed all 8 pads I’m not going to replace them but will be doing the pipes and fluid soon. Need to find out what’s the best fluid to use. Don’t want race stuff that needs changing frequently. What’s recommended?

After doing a bit of research into Dot 4 brake fluid boiling temps, I thought the best 2 options were genuine Bmw or the Castrol React Performance which has a slightly higher boiling temp than the Bmw stuff, see post #10.

Also after digging out my service book it appears that my last brake fluid change, which I had done at my local STS tyre place was late November 2017, I had thought it was 2019. Although the cars only covered just over 14,000 miles in that time, the brake fluid absorbs moisture & the fluid being 10 months past its recommended change date, with most likely having minimum requirements brake fluid in there wouldn't have helped.

With the new lines & fluid the brake pedal is now nice & firm & maybe has more 'feel' to it.

[Smokey33]

Sounds like ya fluid was shot. Brake fade occurs from continued use of the brakes over and over and it basically boils the fluid and the discs and pads get too hot. Seems unlikely from 1 stop.....

[nomiS330d]

Originally Posted by Smokey33

Sounds like ya fluid was shot. Brake fade occurs from continued use of the brakes over and over and it basically boils the fluid and the discs and pads get too hot. Seems unlikely from 1 stop.....

Yeah that’s the thing though, my fluid is about a year old but is Halfords own so maybe not much good? Like chappers said, surprising the brakes were cooked after only one high speed stop.

[rasa bmw]

Originally Posted by Smokey33

You can't fade decent OEM brakes on the road, no chance. Either you've got aftermarket shit on, or ya brake fluid needs a change.

total shite that,,,after one stop no,,after several its quite easy

[Chappers 71]

Some of you guys..

Smokey, rasa, Tambohamilton what are you implying, that I've just made this thread up?

The whole point of this thread was that I made 1 very hard stop from a very high speed & by the time the car had slowed to around 20mph it had lost most of its braking ability accompanied by a very strong smell of burnt friction material which I could smell inside the car with the windows up,both front discs also had a nice blue sheen to them when I got home & looked at them, if that's not brake fade, please go ahead & enlighten me as to what brake fade is.

I had been enjoying a spirited drive, so the brakes weren't exactly cold but even so, yes I agree that it's surprising that 1 stop would make this happen but as for it being 'total shite'....

As I had previously posted I never had an issue like that before, no matter how hard or late I'd braked but it was the first time I'd done so with the non ceramic brembo pads fitted & I won't be trying it again.

Smokey, when I swap the front pads out for ceramics I'll send you the Brembo pads if you like & you could give them a go (on a private road, obviously), & let us know how they work for you

[Tambohamilton]

Yep, total made up nonsense. You must have driven past a BBQ while slowing down, and accidentally spray painted your discs before inspecting them...maybe parked too close to a graffiti artist?

All I said was I was surprised it happened from just one stop.

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Yep, total made up nonsense. You must have driven past a BBQ while slowing down, and accidentally spray painted your discs before inspecting them...maybe parked too close to a graffiti artist?

All I said was I was surprised it happened from just one stop.

Lol, no worries

[Tambohamilton]

Just a thought - how thick/worn are your front discs?

[Chappers 71]

Originally Posted by Tambohamilton

Just a thought - how thick/worn are your front discs?

Just about bedded in, I fitted new ATE discs just under 3K ago along with the Brembo pads.

[Tambohamilton]

Fair enough, continue