[tyler9595]

The car I drove was 2009 e90 335i (non-sport, 6at, no paddles, premium, winter). My daily driver is 2007 e90 335i sport 6at w/ paddles. My car was updated to 29.2 in May.

I know a lot of you guys are fed up with this lag issue and probably dont care much how the 2009 car compares. That's understandable, so please feel free to ignore this post...my lease is up and I was curious to know if the 2009 was less laggy...so I drove one.

It's hard to tell on a short test drive. But, the power delivery of the 2009 car was definately "different". I wonder if maybe the fact that the car was non-sport was fooling me...i.e. maybe the effect of the suspension compressing more under accelleration may have made it feel more powerful down low.

With the car warmed up to 250-255, I tried a few pulls from 1500-1700rpm in 2nd gear up to "at least 4500rpm" . The power seems to be coming on smoother than my 2007, but it didnt feel like 300lbs and I'm not sure that the lag is gone...just manifesting in a different way maybe? Hard to describe. Its almost like the throttle-response is a lot better but the torque is not really coming on until about 2.5k or 3k. The 2009 power is coming on smoother and the lag seems a bit less noticeable. It did not seem to be quite up to par with what I remember before 29.2. But, again it's hard to tell from a 20 mile test-drive.

I also tried a pull from about 2k in 4th gear on the highway...seemed to take forever to make power hard to tell. I need to spend a day or so with the car to really get a feel for it.

Other random comments: 1) The car was SG but looked A LOT lighter. It looked like it was about half way between SG and Ti silver. It's probably just my screwed up eyeballs, but that surprised me...I've seen lots of SG cars so I thought I knew what SG looked like...
2) CA said there are no 2-year leases as of now...wierd.

I posted this yesterday in the 29.2 lag thread. Also, should note that I thought the exhaust note was quieter and less "burbly" in the 2009 car than in my post-29.2 car.

[Kerosene Hat]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I have had the 2009 335i for two weeks now, and it definitely does not have any lag. BUT it does not put down truly outstanding power until about 3000RPM. I mean, the response is immediate but the power comes at higher RPMs, when it just takes off. I was expecting more torque down low but I think BMW modified some things to make the car more drivable in traffic and also to improve fuel consumption ?

That is called lag, mein Freund...

[sdiver68]

I have an '07 e90 335 purchased in Nov 06 and an 09 e93 335 purchased about a week ago.

I would not describe what I feel as lag at all. Lag is typically low power then BOOM, lots of power over a very small RPM range. I would say there is less low end TQ but it also is not 'snatchy' like my e90 is at times. I would describe what I have experienced as "anti-lag", power does not come on as abruptly (or as low in the RPM range). It is rather much more gradual and smooth. Of course all of this difference is at street speeds and RPM's less than 3K.

The e93 does feel "detuned" overall in comparison...but it's also 300lbs heavier. I compared it in a prior thread to my sedan when I have 2-3 passengers.

My wife noticed the overall smoothness of the new package and likes it better than the sedan. I attribute that to smoother delivery of power down low, and a combination of engine retuning + improvements in the ZF tranny software.

Ironically, I feel the exhaust note has actually become more "burbly". I don't know if BMW engineers were going after a different note between the e90 v e92/3?

[Tschuss]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Ironically, I feel the exhaust note has actually become more "burbly". I don't know if BMW engineers were going after a different note between the e90 v e92/3?

Nothing ironic about it. This burbly sound is due to the dme software version 29.2 (or higher) waste gate duty cycle having the gates open at idle and lower rpms. Call it what you want, but this is what causes the lackluster torque condition in rpm's under ~3k. The turbos aren't spinning hard until the waste gates close. Pre 29.2 duty cycle had the waste gates closed in low rpms for better bottom-end grunt.

I miss it, badly.

-B

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

I would not describe what I feel as lag at all.I would describe what I have experienced as "anti-lag", power does not come on as abruptly (or as low in the RPM range). It is rather much more gradual and smooth. Of course all of this difference is at street speeds and RPM's less than 3K.
Ironically, I feel the exhaust note has actually become more "burbly". I don't know if BMW engineers were going after a different note between the e90 v e92/3?

I am glad you feel the same as me. Actually, the convertible is ~440lbs heavier than the coupe/sedan, could this be the reason for the "detuned" feel ?

I love that burbly exhaust note

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Tschuss

Nothing ironic about it. This burbly sound is due to the dme software version 29.2 (or higher) waste gate duty cycle having the gates open at idle and lower rpms. Call it what you want, but this is what causes the lackluster torque condition in rpm's under ~3k. The turbos aren't spinning hard until the waste gates close. Pre 29.2 duty cycle had the waste gates closed in low rpms for better bottom-end grunt.

I miss it, badly.

-B

Ahhh, thanks.

I have not kept up on all the technical details the last year or so.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I am glad you feel the same as me. Actually, the convertible is ~440lbs heavier than the coupe/sedan, could this be the reason for the "detuned" feel ?

I love that burbly exhaust note

Yes, exactly. It weighs much more, thus it feel heavier and slower. 440lbs? I thought it was 300. Whatever, I can definitely feel it.

My 07 e90 is more exciting. My 09 e93 feels more civilized. Of course, we all have tuning options available to "bring back that loving feeling...."

[Manboy]

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I am glad you feel the same as me. Actually, the convertible is ~440lbs heavier than the coupe/sedan, could this be the reason for the "detuned" feel ?

I love that burbly exhaust note

I guess If you keep telling yourself enough times that it's because of the weight you'll start to believe it..

the 335i is no longer the car it used to be, its still great, but it will never win any awards as the "old" did. I know Its hard for someone who just picked up their brand new 335i to announce that they are'nt happy with what they got and that there is something wrong with it, and that is perfectly understandible.. i was in denial for quite some time too.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Tschuss

Nothing ironic about it. This burbly sound is due to the dme software version 29.2 (or higher) waste gate duty cycle having the gates open at idle and lower rpms. Call it what you want, but this is what causes the lackluster torque condition in rpm's under ~3k. The turbos aren't spinning hard until the waste gates close. Pre 29.2 duty cycle had the waste gates closed in low rpms for better bottom-end grunt.

I miss it, badly.

-B

I think again this is a clear misunderstanding of turbos and just is going to leak your credibility if you are looking for an answer from BMW. Whether the wastegate is open or closed is irrelevant on whether the turbo spinning "hard" as you state. That turbo is spinning for all intensive purposes just as fast. If they are manipulating the wastegates, then the car is "detuned".

[cstavaru]

Originally Posted by Pavel

I guess If you keep telling yourself enough times that it's because of the weight you'll start to believe it..

I'm sorry but I 440lbs is big weight and cannot be overlooked.

I just noticed that my car loses traction in 1st and especially in 2nd almost every time even if I only press half throttle (car goes a bit sideways), at 1800-2500RPM. Maybe as the engine is broken in it gains more and more power/torque ? Right now I'm afraid to pass other cars in slow traffic because my car loses traction (we have a very plain tarmac). Last night I tried to pass a van and pressed the throttle hard...the car movement scared the hell out of me, I was doing an "S" on the street...I tought the ESP should keep you straight ?

[Tschuss]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

I think again this is a clear misunderstanding of turbos and just is going to leak your credibility if you are looking for an answer from BMW. Whether the wastegate is open or closed is irrelevant on whether the turbo spinning "hard" as you state. That turbo is spinning for all intensive purposes just as fast. If they are manipulating the wastegates, then the car is "detuned".

Are you suggesting that the waste gate does not impact the spin speed of the turbine? It think it's time for you to book up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate

I understand how turbos function just fine, thank you. Save your insults for someone else. And please don't worry about my credibility with BMW.

-B

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Tschuss

Are you suggesting that the waste gate does not impact the spin speed of the turbine? It think it's time for you to book up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wastegate

I understand how turbos function just fine, thank you. Save your insults for someone else. And please don't worry about my credibility with BMW.

-B

B, to be honest, I never really even thought of whether we have an external or internal wastegate. Which does the N54 have?

With that said, I stand by my statement that even with an open wastegate these tiny turbos will spool more than sufficiently to produce full boost by 3k rpm.

On a side note, I am definitely not insulting you. I just think the term lag is not really a good description of the situation.

[RBBMWE46M3]

With that said, I stand by my statement that even with an open wastegate these tiny turbos will spool more than sufficiently to produce full boost by 3k rpm.

Maybe, but, that is not what BMW advertises. By you explaining that "boost by 3k rpm" is a direct conflict in what BMW advertises. They say that they have "eliminated lag altogether" when I step on the gas and I don't feel the ass dyno pull until 3krpm or 1.5 seconds later what do you want me to call it? Pumpkin pie delay??? NO!!! That delay is the same delay you explained as "tiny turbos will spool more than sufficiently to produce full boost by 3k" BMW says that the tiny turbos should produce full boost at 1200 or so rpm "virtually eliminating lag altogether"

[Tschuss]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

B, to be honest, I never really even thought of whether we have an external or internal wastegate. Which does the N54 have?

With that said, I stand by my statement that even with an open waste gate these tiny turbos will spool more than sufficiently to produce full boost by 3k rpm.

On a side note, I am definitely not insulting you. I just think the term lag is not really a good description of the situation.

Read my note, I never said the word 'lag' once. I did say that an open waste gate impacts the spin speed of the turbo. That is the functional purpose of the waste gate. I stand by that.

I believe your statement is not correct. Full boost can be achieved at 3,000 rpm with wastegates open? That's poo poo.

Here's BMW's own description:
The exhaust-gas flow can be completely or partially directed to the turbine wheel with the
wastegate valves. When the boost pressure has reached its desired level, the wastegate
valve begins to open and direct part of the exhaust-gas flow past the turbine wheel.
This prevents the turbine from further increasing the speed of the compressor.
This control option allows the system to respond to various operating situations.

In the idle phase, the wastegate valves of both turbochargers are closed. This enables
the full exhaust-gas flow available to be utilized to speed up the compressor already at
these low engine speeds.

When power is then demanded from the engine, the compressor can deliver the required
boost pressure without any noticeable time lag. In the full-load situation, the boost pressure
is maintained at a consistently high level when the maximum permissible torque is
reached by a partial opening of the wastegate valves. In this way, the compressors are
only ever induced to rotate at a speed which is called for by the operating situation.

The process of the wastegate valves opening removes drive energy from the turbine such
that no further increase in boost pressure occurs, which in turn improves overall fuel
consumption.

So with that, you say that with the waste gates open, maximum boost is achievable at 3,000 rpm? It makes no sense. It's quote obvious that open wastegates on this engine with tiny turbos will impact performance.

-B

[BzzzBom]

I have a pre v29.2 2007 335i and my lease expires in a few months. I am thrilled to hear that the old 335i performance is back and am looking forward to a 2009. Apparently some of the early 2009 cars still had the turbo lag.

[Manboy]

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

I have a pre v29.2 2007 335i and my lease expires in a few months. I am thrilled to hear that the old 335i performance is back and am looking forward to a 2009. Apparently some of the early 2009 cars still had the turbo lag.

Beeing an owner of a 2007 you should know better. Seriously, go ahed and get one. Then look at the big hole in your wallet while you wait for the turbos to kick in.

people are happy with the 2009 modell, and I can understand that, but I wonder how many of these folks have driven an older 335i?

[marell01]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Beeing an owner of a 2007 you should know better. Seriously, go ahed and get one. Then look at the big hole in your wallet while you wait for the turbos to kick in.

people are happy with the 2009 modell, and I can understand that, but I wonder how many of these folks have driven an older 335i?

I have...

[BMWagain]

Me too although I have forgotten it

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by Pavel

Beeing an owner of a 2007 you should know better. Seriously, go ahed and get one. Then look at the big hole in your wallet while you wait for the turbos to kick in.

people are happy with the 2009 modell, and I can understand that, but I wonder how many of these folks have driven an older 335i?

I wonder how many posting about the 2009 own both. I do. I'm very happy with both.

[BMWagain]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

I wonder how many posting about the 2009 own both. I do. I'm very happy with both.

So refreshing to read.
My cars power comes so smooth in the beginning.Driving around in a civilazed way. I have real power when I need it. And this shit about little power under 3000 rpm.
My car hasnt heard about that. I cannot say my car has some bad behavior at all. Its not driven in yet too.Only 1000 km. I truly say it´s an amazing automobile.

Just my 10 cents

[marell01]

Hi all...
I´ve been driving my new car for 400km now and I can´t feel any difference on the new car produced in september/oktober -08 vs my old car that where produced in june -07 and pre 29.2. Good and imediate power when i´m hitting the accelerator. Both cars are manual transmission ones. Though the new car is a little little smoother at 1000-1500 rpm, where the old one tended to jerk a little. Also the new one is very quiet from the exhaust...
Sincerely Marcus

[MadManMax3000]

First post, been lurking for a couple months and finally ordered an 09 335xi yesterday. It should be here in 6-8, and I'm already planning mods.

So just to clarify...the Juicebox 3 does work with the 2009's right?

So if this new lag is really an issue you I just spend $600 and be rid of it, yes?