[canesr1]

Originally Posted by Orb

You are both in denial as you think that the 2nd generation pump is fine. The pump will fail sooner or later and leave your stranded on the side road. Your ignorance is your worst enemy. You’re not even close to being the first to having these problems and all have been resolved with either a new pump or spark plugs and the power increase and gas mileage improved drastically.

As the code is upgraded they use the same base code from BMW so all those safety protocols are left untouched for the most part. The newer flash will use 29.x base code and they will match the latest code every few months or they risk incompatibility with other sub system. The newer programming for BMW is more aggressive at cutting throttle and pulling back time and even short shifting auto just to preserver the engine when fuel demand is not being met. I am one of the few that have seen this first hand how drastic it can on race track…it cuts back power to a stand still and is fully controlled. BMW does not have choice in this. If they don’t take drastic steps to preserve the engine it can be written off in just a few seconds.

The problem is the BMW has screwed me and every 335i owner on this site with lack of response to fuel pump replacement. If you have tune you have no choice to replace the pump on your own dime or wait for the recall.

Orb

How am I in denial? I dropped off my car for rev2 and a rear tail lamp failure at 8:30 am. On the drive to the dealership, my car had crazy power, especially 2 & 3rd gears...It was INTENSE!
I picked up my car at 4:30 PM THE SAME DAY. On my drive home, that "crazy power" was just not ALL there. The "OH SH!T!" factor was gone.
Now, don't get me wrong, there is still alot of power, but without a doubt, they detuned rev 2. Plain and simple.
My fuel pump didn't die sitting at the dealership for 8 hours.
Can you tell me why I had such a drastic change in power in those 8 hours, but NONE AT ALL in the previous 5 months? Not once did I have any power loss of any kind with rev1.
SO, are you saying that it's just a coincidence that I notice loss of power the same day the do a reflash?
BTW- rev2 was ONLY suppose to address throttle response. I have a 6mt and never had an issue with the throttle response on rev1.
//- Wish I never "updated"

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by sambonator

ybbiz34? ybbiz34? ...Bueller?

Hey sambo. What's up?

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by canesr1

...without a doubt, they detuned rev 2. Plain and simple.
My fuel pump didn't die sitting at the dealership for 8 hours.
Can you tell me why I had such a drastic change in power in those 8 hours, but NONE AT ALL in the previous 5 months? ...

It may not be the Dinan update that caused power loss... it may be the newer progman from BMW that caused it, with a lot more safety features (protective power reduction) built-in. One of these safety features include aggressive engine protection from reduced fuel pump function. I think that's what Orb is trying to tell you... and that you need a new fuel pump to fix the power loss issue.

[Noize]

Resistance is futile...

[canesr1]

Originally Posted by sambonator

It may not be the Dinan update that caused power loss... it may be the newer progman from BMW that caused it, with a lot more safety features (protective power reduction) built-in. One of these safety features include aggressive engine protection from reduced fuel pump function. I think that's what Orb is trying to tell you... and that you need a new fuel pump to fix the power loss issue.

OK! but I thought dinan's software overwrites all the BMW nonsense? Isn't that why dinan claims there is no turbo-lag from 29.2, b/c their flash overwrites bmw's restrictions?
I'm not very knowledgeable about these engines but it just seems very odd to me that nothing else changed w/ my car except dinans reflash and the diminished power.
So, you guys w/ rev2 AND new fuel pump, is rev 2 = to rev1?

[therealm3]

Originally Posted by canesr1

How am I in denial? I dropped off my car for rev2 and a rear tail lamp failure at 8:30 am. On the drive to the dealership, my car had crazy power, especially 2 & 3rd gears...It was INTENSE!
I picked up my car at 4:30 PM THE SAME DAY. On my drive home, that "crazy power" was just not ALL there. The "OH SH!T!" factor was gone.
Now, don't get me wrong, there is still alot of power, but without a doubt, they detuned rev 2. Plain and simple.
My fuel pump didn't die sitting at the dealership for 8 hours.
Can you tell me why I had such a drastic change in power in those 8 hours, but NONE AT ALL in the previous 5 months? Not once did I have any power loss of any kind with rev1.
SO, are you saying that it's just a coincidence that I notice loss of power the same day the do a reflash?
BTW- rev2 was ONLY suppose to address throttle response. I have a 6mt and never had an issue with the throttle response on rev1.
//- Wish I never "updated"

Call me what you will, but ~10 hp on a 300+hp car works out to ~3%. That's hardly "drastic" change.

[canesr1]

Originally Posted by therealm3

Call me what you will, but ~10 hp on a 300+hp car works out to ~3%. That's hardly "drastic" change.

Ok...You are an IDIOT! If you paid $2000+ for something and were extremely happy with the product, then someone took part of it away and didn't give you a refund, how would you feel?

[Kelvin1000]

Lets keep it civil guys.

I understand that there are various possible culprits for a gradual and or sudden loss in power with the N54 engine.

However, what we are experiencing happens the same day of the reflash. The difference is there for sure.

I wish the fuel pump was the reason, believe me I do. Like I said before: Show me a Stage 2 Rev 2 Dyno with a "healthy fuel pump" that puts out over 335whp...then I will entertain the possibility further. The only Dinans that have put out 335+whp are those that had the original flash (including mine)

I think that if the new progman 31x works out and reduces lag and improves wastegate cycles, then I might have to flash away the Dinan and go with JB3...

[canesr1]

Hey- He told me to call him whatever I want!
Kelvin- We know what we're talking about. I just wish there was a fix or flash to get us back to where we were!
Here's hoping that v31.1?@!# will rectify everything

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Lets keep it civil guys.

I understand that there are various possible culprits for a gradual and or sudden loss in power with the N54 engine.

However, what we are experiencing happens the same day of the reflash. The difference is there for sure.

I wish the fuel pump was the reason, believe me I do. Like I said before: Show me a Stage 2 Rev 2 Dyno with a "healthy fuel pump" that puts out over 335whp...then I will entertain the possibility further. The only Dinans that have put out 335+whp are those that had the original flash (including mine)

I think that if the new progman 31x works out and reduces lag and improves wastegate cycles, then I might have to flash away the Dinan and go with JB3...

[J.]

Originally Posted by Orb

You are both in denial as you think that the 2nd generation pump is fine. The pump will fail sooner or later and leave your stranded on the side road. Your ignorance is your worst enemy. You’re not even close to being the first to having these problems and all have been resolved with either a new pump or spark plugs and the power increase and gas mileage improved drastically.

As the code is upgraded they use the same base code from BMW so all those safety protocols are left untouched for the most part. The newer flash will use 29.x base code and they will match the latest code every few months or they risk incompatibility with other sub system. The newer programming for BMW is more aggressive at cutting throttle and pulling back time and even short shifting auto just to preserver the engine when fuel demand is not being met. I am one of the few that have seen this first hand how drastic it can on race track…it cuts back power to a stand still and is fully controlled. BMW does not have choice in this. If they don’t take drastic steps to preserve the engine it can be written off in just a few seconds.

The problem is the BMW has screwed me and every 335i owner on this site with lack of response to fuel pump replacement. If you have tune you have no choice to replace the pump on your own dime or wait for the recall.

Orb

Orb

Can you give me the part #?

Im just gonna get a 3rd gen pump and leave my original tune.

Jon

[leftcoastman]

It is very clear that for both of you, your fuel pump MUST HAVE died on the exact same day as your upgrade to the Revision. Just bad luck on your part. If that wasn't the case, then it would be Dinan's fault. And it's clear that Dinan is never at fault.

It is one of those immutable laws. E=mc^2 and Dinan is never wrong.

That said, if I were you, I'd ask for a refund.

[sambonator]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

It is very clear that for both of you, your fuel pump MUST HAVE died on the exact same day as your upgrade to the Revision. Just bad luck on your part. If that wasn't the case, then it would be Dinan's fault. And it's clear that Dinan is never at fault.

It is one of those immutable laws. E=mc^2 and Dinan is never wrong.

That said, if I were you, I'd ask for a refund.

Yes, I'd say get a refund if you're not happy with Dinan.

From what I understand from the folks here who got the Dinan revisions, they got it because it was needed, in order for it to work properly with a newer progman version.

I think their fuel pumps were already degraded (as are all rev1 and rev2 pumps), and the new progman just made that fact much more clear.

I know Orb went ahead and purchased the new rev3 pump on his own, and he regained all his power back, along with better fuel economy.

That said, the combination of degrading fuel pumps, upgraded progman versions with more engine protection against fuel starvation due to degrading fuel pumps, and a tune (any tune) really complicates things.

[canesr1]

Originally Posted by leftcoastman

It is very clear that for both of you, your fuel pump MUST HAVE died on the exact same day as your upgrade to the Revision. Just bad luck on your part. If that wasn't the case, then it would be Dinan's fault. And it's clear that Dinan is never at fault.

It is one of those immutable laws. E=mc^2 and Dinan is never wrong.

That said, if I were you, I'd ask for a refund.

If Dinan would be willing to refund my money, I would do it in a millisecond just for the principle.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by canesr1

If Dinan would be willing to refund my money, I would do it in a millisecond just for the principle.

The extent at which people exaggerate things on here sometimes is pretty comical.

Have you tried to contact Dinan, or has the majority of your time and effort been spent venting here on the forum?

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by sambonator

From what I understand from the folks here who got the Dinan revisions, they got it because it was needed, in order for it to work properly with a newer progman version.

I got mine of my own volition, because I wanted better throttle response.

Overall, I have no complaints with Rev. 2.

[canesr1]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

I got mine of my own volition, because I wanted better throttle response.

Overall, I have no complaints with Rev. 2.

I got mine because I had no other choice! I have a 6mt and had no problems whatsoever with the throttle beforehand.
How am I comical ybbiz? Because I had a perfectly running tune that I paid good money for, then BMW/dinan changed it(lessened the power output) and didn't give me a choice?...but still charged me for the Initial tune in excess of $2000? They took away power I paid for! that's why I'm pissed.
Now, if I didn't know better and just got REV2(w/out ever having rev1) then I would have no complaints at all.
My issue is they took something away that I paid for.
Now to your next question... Yes I have contacted Dinan AND BMW and they insist I have the same power. Kelvin and I(and I'm sure there are others) know better as we are experiencing similar things. I had the stage 2 rechecked to make sure I wasn't on Stage 1.
It's pretty obvious and I can't understand why you all can't see this. Trust me, I've had dinan products on other BMW's and was always a "fan boy" until this all came about.

[canesr1]

as a matter of fact, through this forum, dinan contacted me after i initially came here to see if anyone else was experiencing what I was. They were trying to help and I appreciated that. however, they refused to admit to any detuning and power reduction and offered me no other options/alternatives as to why I missing some power. I have put over 8000 miles since rev2. I enjoy the tune, but it's NOT as powerful as Rev1 and I do feel a bit cheated.

[Kelvin1000]

Canesr1:

Don't worry about it, I remember there where 2 other occassion where people like us where ridiculed:

1) The first days of the revision there where many cars that actually got flashed back to stock because of a Dinan software issue and people where actualy praising the new "TUNE" because it had better throttle response and more linear delivery. People had been flashed to stock and they actually raved about it. PLACEBO at its very, very best.

2) Back in 2007 I asked if the 2008 335s might have some ECU or software changes which would make them incompatible with the Proceed before I purchased it. The post turned into a joke at my expense. But well..., we all know how that one turned out...

--- Getting back to the point:

I don't want a refund because I have enjoyed the tune quite a bit and I think it would be unfair to them. However, I will contact Dinan and see if it is possible to send them the ECU so they can put back the original flash.

If this can't be done then I will probably have to update to PROGMAN version 30.1 (if I can get BMW to restore THEIR warranty).

After that I will have to take my chances in the darkside...JB3 perhaps.

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Canesr1:

Don't worry about it, I remember there where 2 other occassion where people like us where ridiculed:

1) The first days of the revision there where many cars that actually got flashed back to stock because of a Dinan software issue and people where actualy praising the new "TUNE" because it had better throttle response and more linear delivery. People had been flashed to stock and they actually raved about it. PLACEBO at its very, very best.

2) Back in 2007 I asked if the 2008 335s might have some ECU or software changes which would make them incompatible with the Proceed before I purchased it. The post turned into a joke at my expense. But well..., we all know how that one turned out...

--- Getting back to the point:

I don't want a refund because I have enjoyed the tune quite a bit and I think it would be unfair to them. However, I will contact Dinan and see if it is possible to send them the ECU so they can put back the original flash.

If this can't be done then I will probably have to update to PROGMAN version 30.1 (if I can get BMW to restore THEIR warranty).

After that I will have to take my chances in the darkside...JB3 perhaps.

You are not the first to go through this and a few others have said what you are saying about rev 2. All the pumps are in decay and once a threshold is targeted in the software it will run with reduced power. The fact is that changing the fuel pump not only dramatically increased power but it far exceeded the original flash. The people who I have discussed this with and who did get thier pumps replaced had the same comments afterwards. That is 100% fix rate.

The two things you should check. Gas mileage in the city over half tank should be above 16 MPG (you need to covert to US gallons). If you run the car about 1/8 of tank and go around a corner fast or drive up a hill the car will have problems. There are 100+ cars my dealer who been towed in because thier car died while doing this and all passed the fuel pump test with 50% of them have full failures shortly afterwards.

The rev 2 of the Dinan II will pull hard with little or no throttle depression and peaks well before half throttle. My car was never like this before the fuel pump.

BTW, there a reason why Shiv implemented a new safety protocol in the proceed for fuel pumps because all the piggy backs are bypassing the safety portals and a few seconds of starvation will (not maybe) damage your engine. You may want to ask this about the JB3.


Orb

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by Orb

You are not the first to go through this and a few others have said what you are saying about rev 2. All the pumps are in decay and once a threshold is targeted in the software it will run with reduced power. The fact is that changing the fuel pump not only dramatically increased power but it far exceeded the original flash. The people who I have discussed this with and who did get thier pumps replaced had the same comments afterwards. That is 100% fix rate.

The two things you should check. Gas mileage in the city over half tank should be above 16 MPG (you need to covert to US gallons). If you run the car about 1/8 of tank and go around a corner fast or drive up a hill the car will have problems. There is 100+ cars my dealer who been towed in because thier car died while doing this and all passed the fuel pump test with 50% of them have full failures shortly afterwards.

The rev 2 of the Dinan II will pull hard with little or no throttle depression and peaks well before half throttle. My car was never like this before the fuel pump.

BTW, there a reason why Shiv implemented a new safety protocol in the proceed for fuel pumps because all the piggy backs are bypassing the safety portals and a few seconds of starvation will (not maybe) damage your engine. You may want to ask this about the JB3.


Orb

Orb,

I respect your opinion and I will do my best to swap out the pump.

In regards to my other question... Have you seen anyone with a "good fuel pump" and Rev 2 post over 335whp like I did with my original flash???

How can I get BMW to cover change my pump. I called them yesterday following your advice and they told me that the VIN # in my car does not qualify me for the pump recall... If I can't get them to do it, much would it cost to change the pump?

[Orb]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Orb,

I respect your opinion and I will do my best to swap out the pump.

In regards to my other question... Have you seen anyone with a "good fuel pump" and Rev 2 post over 335whp like I did with my original flash???

How can I get BMW to cover change my pump. I called them yesterday following your advice and they told me that the VIN # in my car does not qualify me for the pump recall... If I can't get them to do it, much would it cost to change the pump?

The pump was 370.00 and under two hours to install and I did the spark plugs that needed changing as well. BMW is not yet doing a recall since they don’t have the supply to do it and there not going to help you out. The pumps they are recalling are the one that have known tolerance problem. The core problem with the pumps is the seal and the 2nd generation pumps improved but it wasn’t a long term fix. This is why the newer software is so aggressive in cutting back power when demand is not meet. The fix is addressed and stated in TSB about the 3rd generation pumps.

I paid out my own pocket and in the end I already paid this off just in gas savings since I’m getting 18MPG in the city and was getting 11.5 MPG or worse and very little torque which I only found out after the fact.

Orb

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by Orb

The pump was 370.00 and under two hours to install and I did the spark plugs that needed changing as well. BMW is not yet doing a recall since they don’t have the supply to do it and there not going to help you out. The pumps they are recalling are the one that have known tolerance problem. The core problem with the pumps is the seal and the 2nd generation pumps improved but it wasn’t a long term fix. This is why the newer software is so aggressive in cutting back power when demand is not meet. The fix is addressed and stated in TSB about the 3rd generation pumps.

I paid out my own pocket and in the end I already paid this off just in gas savings since I’m getting 18MPG in the city and was getting 11.5 MPG or worse and very little torque which I only found out after the fact.

Orb

Thanks for the reply. Have you dynoed your Rev 2 since the pump replacement?