[solstice]

“Most of the European reviews I've read so far haven't given much weight to this issue, and in fact most of the cars here are fitted with PS4S (and 245 front), could this be the reason?”

Tire width, compound and pattern make a big difference for sure. My wife’s has P zero summers 225 front and 255 rear. Not nearly as good as Michelin summers and the 225 fronts aren’t helping with steering weight. Still I don’t notice any nervousness around the center just a bit sensitive where relaxed hands is rewarded.

[CDN-Driver]

After more than a decade, it seems nobody has cracked the code of why some examples seem OK, and others are intolerable.

[danallxt]

Mine came with Non-RFT performance and i experienced the noticeable "twichiness" or what i would call over assisted at on center. I suspect the difference is not in the vehicles, rather what the driver has been used to in his/her previous vehicles. My previous has excellent on-center characteristics closer to a manual rack and pinion (it is EPS). I will get used to this.

[Hpirx]

About 3 weeks and 400 miles in with the car.
On 225 square Pirelli Sottozero winter 18" set.
I do notice a slight on center "drift".
Only noticed it after it was pointed out.
Don't really notice it most of the time.
I'm not too concerned. My '19 F22 240 needed a break in period before the steering settled down. It was initially kinda sketchy, but became quite solid.
The HP set of Michelin's will go on in April, by then the chassis and engine should have enough miles for a true evaluation.
Hopefully the speakers will have mellowed out a bit too!

[solstice]

Originally Posted by danallxt

Mine came with Non-RFT performance and i experienced the noticeable "twichiness" or what i would call over assisted at on center. I suspect the difference is not in the vehicles, rather what the driver has been used to in his/her previous vehicles. My previous has excellent on-center characteristics closer to a manual rack and pinion (it is EPS). I will get used to this.

After my drive I’m convinced you will, there’s no twitchiness around the center on this car. It tracks true and stable going straight on the hwy with just the occasional micro adjustments needed from winds, grooves etc. Just like any car with good steering and directional stability.

What it does have is lower center weight than for example our F80 or Cayenne. You just need to get used to applying less force when you do those adjustments otherwise you endup over correcting and start ping-ponging. You might need to change where you rest your hands and elbows as well to not lean too much on the steering.

Good luck!

[VIERsr]

I drove the M240i today and for me there is nothing wrong with the steering feedback.
Of course, we can't expect steering as sharp as that of a Porsche or old BMW, but it's by far Bmw's best EPS in a non-M car.
You can still feel some artificial feedback, but compared to the old F2x the improvement is more than huge.
Please note that "my" car had 245 PS4S front tires, unfortunately overinflated (2.8 bar cold, 3.2 bar after a few kilometers of fast driving), at the right pressure the steering response would be even better.

[alpinewhite3]

Am i the only one that doesn't view "twitchiness" as bad? Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't twichy steering means it's lightning quick and responsive? Who wouldn't want that when buying a sports coupe?

One of the things that irritated the hell out of me on my G20 330i was that god damn center dead zone-where i move the steering left and right and nothing happens. It feels like a Camry. I want that point and shoot, super sharp crisp turn in. I love those micro corrections where i can avoid potholes with one finger on the steering.

How do i get the most twitchy setting??? 19" performance tires? I would guess the cars would with the 18"s would be even crisper due to the smaller wheel diameter and less weight of the tire?

[GWIZ]

Originally Posted by danallxt

The steering feel debate continues, there seems to be two camps, one that thinks it's great, others that think it's not so good. Seems like a very personal thing, i will try to avoid that controversy but...

To me, my personal reaction is about the on-center steering twichiness. It's like one has to always do micro corrections, I'm not talking about steering play (there is none), but rather a lack of a on-center zone. I drove 130 miles interstate to pick up my M240x with my 7th gen GTI. Difference is night and day. The GTI you are not aware of having to guide it down the interstate, the M240 i found myself always correcting. I traded off with the person who was driving my GTI back and he had the same thing to say. The GTI is exceptional in having a firm on center zone that you don't notice having to keep in line. Others have mentioned this twichiness, again this is MY experience. Summer tires at 39psi. I may try a bit more toe in as that may help? I may likely in time get used to this steering, if not our relationship may be short term. As far as tire feel/feedback, to me it's akin to an arcade game.

danallxt -- You are not imagining the micro-adjustments. It appears to be a steering system problem that people are reporting in the G20, X3, and G42 forums (the extent of my knowledge) on Bimmerpost. it has become intolerable in my 330ix Sportline. I have also noticed this issue with my 230i M Sport. For now, I've been focusing on the G20: replaced the tires and had it aligned to spec, but this did not fix the problem. I am still researching solutions, but have completely lost interest in driving the car. Your input is most welcome. Here are the links to the other threads discussing this issue:
https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1928941
https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1892651
https://x3.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1937763

[m_g42bmw]

Coming from Dodge products like the 5.7 RT and 6.4 hemi the sport modes in both cars noticeable changed the dynamic feel of the wheel. My 18 scat had a way heavier feel then the M240i. However the feel of the m240 is alot more fun and refreshing. Definitely different

[Bandit009]

Interesting article with a BMW driving-dynamics expert on why the steering is “numb”, but “precise”.

All by design based on customer feedback.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...steering-feel/

[kwikit356]

I have a new '23 M240i X-Drive with ZTK, meaning 245s on 8.5" wide front wheels and 255s on 9.5" wide rear wheels. Only 1100 miles on the car right now. Next week I'm having 4 Michelin X-Ice 235/40x19 tires mounted on these OEM BMW wheels and saving the PS4S summer Michelin tires for the new forged wheels I just ordered from Apex with the 15% off sale.

The new Apex wheels will be 9.0" wide on the front and 10.0" wide on the rear. I also plan to put camber plates on the front struts so that I can dial in some negative camber (with some on the rear as well). I'm not going to bother with any alignment until the new wheels go on in the spring, then we can play with both the camber and toe to see what's possible. This BMW will not be my track car, but I would like to make it a bit more eager to turn, and with a little less understeer at the limits, along with giving it a very small amount of front toe-out to see how that impacts both tracking and turning. Fortunately, I have the help of suspension experts, because otherwise it would be all too easy to make what is okay now into a disaster.

[mburg]

I've owned multiple 3 series coupes (starting with E36), up through the 128 and then each iteration of the 2 series. I was also a 'car jockey' for a BMW dealer in the late 1970s and drove every 2002 year, along with the Bavaria, 3.0 coupe, etc.

The best steering - on center, feedback, control - was the 128, with hydraulic power steering. If other manufacturers can do electronic, why can't BMW? I think they can, it's just that they are tuning it for something other than the feel and feedback of yesteryear BMWs.

[Bandit009]

Originally Posted by mburg

I've owned multiple 3 series coupes (starting with E36), up through the 128 and then each iteration of the 2 series. I was also a 'car jockey' for a BMW dealer in the late 1970s and drove every 2002 year, along with the Bavaria, 3.0 coupe, etc.

The best steering - on center, feedback, control - was the 128, with hydraulic power steering. If other manufacturers can do electronic, why can't BMW? I think they can, it's just that they are tuning it for something other than the feel and feedback of yesteryear BMWs.

If you read the article, BMW explicitly states why they have removed steering feel. Based on customer surveys. Majority of customers don’t want to feel the road. They could produce more feel with the EPS, but BMW says that’s not what their customers want.

[Bandit009]

Having read that article and just got back from a ride in my 330i I have a better appreciation for what BMW is trying to accomplish. The 330i is hydraulic steering. The wheel pulls when the wheels encounter any grooves or uneveness in the road. The 240i doesn’t do that but at the same time the steering is very precise and direct. Like flying an F16. Just goes where you point it without any harsh input from the road. I am coming around.

[VIERsr]

It's more about how they tune the steering, than the technology itself. There are poor hydraulic steerings and great EPSs. Unfortunately with Bmw we were used to excellent hydraulic steerings and now we have to deal with poor EPSs; Audi, for example, had poor hydraulic steerings and now has 'decent' EPSs (compared to the old ones).

[Bandit009]

Originally Posted by VIERsr

It's more about how they tune the steering, than the technology itself. There are poor hydraulic steerings and great EPSs. Unfortunately with Bmw we were used to excellent hydraulic steerings and now we have to deal with poor EPSs; Audi, for example, had poor hydraulic steerings and now has 'decent' EPSs (compared to the old ones).

Yes I agree it’s about the tuning of the EPS and WHY they tune it this way - customer surveys. The customers requested less feedback.

[RICH S202]

It would be nice to be able to tune the steering in the g42 to that of say the g80 M3.

[hxrly]

Our 23 M240i came with 225 runflats, which is less than ideal for handling, so I'm not putting too much emphasis on the steering until I get regular tires.

I thought, or maybe hoped, there'd be more separation between the Sport and Comfort settings. The Sport feels fine, but I would have liked the Comfort setting to feel a bit lighter, a bit closer to a GTI to cite an example.

I feel no on-center twitchiness, on the contrary, it's quite solid specially at the 90 mph this car likes to go everywhere (we do get 85 mph limits in TX). I usually steer with a couple of fingers and that's where the heft of the steering becomes apparent. Maybe the xDrive cars feel different?

[BG42]

I had 225/255 run flats on mine stock. Luckily for me the road gods took care of a right rear for me and bubbled a sidewall with less than 1k miles on the tires. I usually do aftermarket wheels so I skip the wheel and tire warranty. TBF the stock rfs are also known to be trash check facebook/reddit. Anyway the car def felt alot more loose with the rfs I replaced them with ps4s's and its been night and day even road noise is vastly improved car just feels better on the road.

[Evilmoretea]

Originally Posted by hxrly

Our 23 M240i came with 225 runflats, which is less than ideal for handling, so I'm not putting too much emphasis on the steering until I get regular tires.

I thought, or maybe hoped, there'd be more separation between the Sport and Comfort settings. The Sport feels fine, but I would have liked the Comfort setting to feel a bit lighter, a bit closer to a GTI to cite an example.

I feel no on-center twitchiness, on the contrary, it's quite solid specially at the 90 mph this car likes to go everywhere (we do get 85 mph limits in TX). I usually steer with a couple of fingers and that's where the heft of the steering becomes apparent. Maybe the xDrive cars feel different?

Do you have the adaptive suspension/dampers

[mburg]

Originally Posted by Bandit009

If you read the article, BMW explicitly states why they have removed steering feel. Based on customer surveys. Majority of customers don’t want to feel the road. They could produce more feel with the EPS, but BMW says that’s not what their customers want.

IMHO they're surveying the wrong customers. Oh well, times change.

[Bandit009]

Originally Posted by mburg

IMHO they're surveying the wrong customers. Oh well, times change.

I think BMW could offer a “setting” that allowed more road feel. Part of the supposed benefit of EPS is that you can change the feel relatively easily.