[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

If we're talking about which models CR considered to develop their rankings, for BMW that can be found by simply clicking on the rating to expand it:

Attachment 3034639

True. I was referring to more detail, i.e. X5M/X5 M50i/X5 40i etc.

Point is we agree on is that this survey is not going to be 100% accurate, the limitations are disclosed so people are informed it will not be 100% accurate, and it is better than any other survey than I am aware of. For example, it does not have data on my 2019 X6M but the fact that overall they jumped out to #3 overall does validate overall that the F85/F86 series is more reliable than the E70/E71 X5M/X6M series as can be seen in this very same BMW forum, although the CR survey does not have any data.

[Donatello.]

But does BMW still consider things like a water pump as regular maintenance items on their cars? If so, LOL

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

But does BMW still consider things like a water pump as regular maintenance items on their cars? If so, LOL

Good question. You should ask them and find out why Dodge is not listed at all, LOL.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

I'm confused... why are you taking this so personally? do you work for CR?

I never said to throw away the results or that they were worthless. I was just pointing out a statistical weakness in their analysis that could potentially skew the results we see. To be discerning of the results rather than blindly following them, I thought, was the point of a discussion.

I'm actually a subscriber to CR, so I'm well aware of what they DO disclose vs. what they don't. And they've never fully disclosed their data (which to some extent I understand - data is $$). But as someone who works closely with data in day to day profession, I have to take what they show with a grain of salt, ESPECIALLY when something jumps 10 places from one year to the next.

What is interesting about the data is Ford vs. Lincoln. There is virtually no mechanical difference nor software difference between Fords and Lincolns. Many share the same assembly lines/manufacturing plants, and all are shared chassis between the brands. The problem with such reports as these is owner bias. The Ford and Lincoln data show this.

[Piper1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I stopped reading CR car reports when they rated the 1984 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe as "poor" because it was difficult to get out of the driver's seat with two paper grocery bags of groceries...

I showed this to my brother in law he got a chuckle out of it. And agree with your Ford/Lincoln comment. My brother in law and I work in the same department at ford and there’s a good bit that comes out of our shop for Lincoln too. I can’t remember what year I stopped reading CR and paying attention to it but was when a majority of the negativity was based on how hard of a time customers were having to sync up their phones.
As a document on the autobahn I was watching someone said they can’t understand why Americans need cup holders in cars for, they’re meant to be driven not to have a meal in.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Piper1

I showed this to my brother in law he got a chuckle out of it. And agree with your Ford/Lincoln comment. My brother in law and I work in the same department at ford and there’s a good bit that comes out of our shop for Lincoln too. I can’t remember what year I stopped reading CR and paying attention to it but was when a majority of the negativity was based on how hard of a time customers were having to sync up their phones.
As a document on the autobahn I was watching someone said they can’t understand why Americans need cup holders in cars for, they’re meant to be driven not to have a meal in.

This is exactly the issue with CR and JD Power as well, "reliability" has in the definition how well the infotainment system works. Being an old dude, my definition for reliability is how often the vehicle leaves you dead on the road and you either have to walk or get a ride from the tow truck.

New car owners complain how well their phone integrates with the vehicle, and if it is problematic, they determine the vehicle is unreliable. Phone integration in my new Bronco absolutely sucks. I tried the Android auto app, and as soon as the phone leaves cell service, Android Auto disconnects and I have to fish through a menu sequence to reestablish connectivity. I live in a rural area where cell service is spotty, so it happens quite frequently. It's so annoying, I just deleted my phone from the system - LOL. I leave the screen dark most of the time.

Asking a favor... if you have contacts in the Bronco team, can you ask them to do a software update to add the clock readout to the main gauge screen? A simple email to the Bronco team is all I'm asking.

[Piper1]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This is exactly the issue with CR and JD Power as well, "reliability" has in the definition how well the infotainment system works. Being an old dude, my definition for reliability is how often the vehicle leaves you dead on the road and you either have to walk or get a ride from the tow truck.

New car owners complain how well their phone integrates with the vehicle, and if it is problematic, they determine the vehicle is unreliable. Phone integration in my new Bronco absolutely sucks. I tried the Android auto app, and as soon as the phone leaves cell service, Android Auto disconnects and I have to fish through a menu sequence to reestablish connectivity. I live in a rural area where cell service is spotty, so it happens quite frequently. It's so annoying, I just deleted my phone from the system - LOL. I leave the screen dark most of the time.

Asking a favor... if you have contacts in the Bronco team, can you ask them to do a software update to add the clock readout to the main gauge screen? A simple email to the Bronco team is all I'm asking.

I don’t consider myself old just yet but damn if our 6 year old hasn’t already labeled me but I still gauge it too by how less or more it’d leave you walking with the thumb out for the next tumble weed of a car coming by. A reason I’m not upset for what ever reason my e86 doesn’t like my phone and why I’m liking newer cars less and less they seem to be building around the infotainment first these days.

alas don’t have clout there I’m in machining for the F150 axle and Dana got the axle for the bronco, not sure if they’re going to change that this coming year or not with contracts haven’t heard anything yet, I’m following a thread on the bronco6g boards about a rear bent axle but there’s not been specifics yet on what actually bent.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Piper1

I don’t consider myself old just yet but damn if our 6 year old hasn’t already labeled me but I still gauge it too by how less or more it’d leave you walking with the thumb out for the next tumble weed of a car coming by. A reason I’m not upset for what ever reason my e86 doesn’t like my phone and why I’m liking newer cars less and less they seem to be building around the infotainment first these days.

alas don’t have clout there I’m in machining for the F150 axle and Dana got the axle for the bronco, not sure if they’re going to change that this coming year or not with contracts haven’t heard anything yet, I’m following a thread on the bronco6g boards about a rear bent axle but there’s not been specifics yet on what actually bent.

Following that too. Not sure how you bend an axle without launching it...

And I'm not sure which is louder, my Bronco or my E86. My wife says the Bronco is noisy when I call her from it.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

Good question. You should ask them and find out why Dodge is not listed at all, LOL.

I ask a legit question that I wanted the answer to & you act like a tool, thanks.

Also, here you go. Good day

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...dability-study

[eluded]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

But does BMW still consider things like a water pump as regular maintenance items on their cars? If so, LOL

Steering rack every 20k

Injector replaced every 20k

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

What is interesting about the data is Ford vs. Lincoln. There is virtually no mechanical difference nor software difference between Fords and Lincolns. Many share the same assembly lines/manufacturing plants, and all are shared chassis between the brands. The problem with such reports as these is owner bias. The Ford and Lincoln data show this.

what Ford and Lincolns share the same assembly line ?

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Caravaggio

what Ford and Lincolns share the same assembly line ?

Oakville, Canada: Edge/Nautilus
Chicago Assembly: Explorer/Aviator
Kentucky Truck: Expedition/Navigator
Louisville Assembly: Escape/Corsair

Also, currently Ford Corporate supplies transmissions and engines and other major components such as body stampings from various factories in the US and worldwide that are used to build both Ford and Lincoln brands, so essentially the vehicles are comprised of the same parts assembled on the same assembly line in the same facilities. Other than trim details, the cars and trucks are identical as far as manufacturing.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Oakville, Canada: Edge/Nautilus
Chicago Assembly: Explorer/Aviator
Kentucky Truck: Expedition/Navigator
Louisville Assembly: Escape/Corsair

Also, currently Ford Corporate supplies transmissions and engines and other major components such as body stampings from various factories in the US and worldwide that are used to build both Ford and Lincoln brands, so essentially the vehicles are comprised of the same parts assembled on the same assembly line in the same facilities. Other than trim details, the cars and trucks are identical as far as manufacturing.

The Navigator Expedition have similar ratings on consumer reports the Navigator being marked as quieter - wonder if navigator has more sound deadening.

I see that ConsumerRep had dinged the Bronco Sport for reliability after a reporting a good initial year. I think Ford pickups have also been getting dinged.


Ford is an amazing company. My friends 2007 Mustang hood vibrated at high speed. But another friends 2022 maverick was impressive and I think assembled in Mexico.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Caravaggio

The Navigator Expedition have similar ratings on consumer reports the Navigator being marked as quieter - wonder if navigator has more sound deadening.

I see that ConsumerRep had dinged the Bronco Sport for reliability after a reporting a good initial year. I think Ford pickups have also been getting dinged.


Ford is an amazing company. My friends 2007 Mustang hood vibrated at high speed. But another friends 2022 maverick was impressive and I think assembled in Mexico.

Surely the Lincoln gets added sound deadening material. The higher trim Broncos with the Lux package get additional sound deadening material as compared to the lower trim models. I have a lower trim Bronco and it's not that loud inside to me.

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

CR's problem has always been that their survey sample includes only their own members. It's pretty obvious they are not a fun-loving lot by looking at the makes they didn't have enough of to sample. Their auto ratings are like their toaster ratings. It's amazing to me that BMW is as high as it is, but that just convinces me that their methods and sample are skewed.

Fun-loving CR member checking in.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Oakville, Canada: Edge/Nautilus
Chicago Assembly: Explorer/Aviator
Kentucky Truck: Expedition/Navigator
Louisville Assembly: Escape/Corsair

Also, currently Ford Corporate supplies transmissions and engines and other major components such as body stampings from various factories in the US and worldwide that are used to build both Ford and Lincoln brands, so essentially the vehicles are comprised of the same parts assembled on the same assembly line in the same facilities. Other than trim details, the cars and trucks are identical as far as manufacturing.

^this^

Let's make no mistake, Lincoln is a badge-engineered Ford.

[Autobacs]

Originally Posted by Donatello.

I ask a legit question that I wanted the answer to & you act like a tool, thanks.

Also, here you go. Good day

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...dability-study

Ohh, you ask the question jokingly and you think my response is being a tool

Actually your question is so broad that it cannot be answered. Each BMW model has some quirks that others may not. Like for example specific Honda's are problematic with the CVT transmission even though Honda's in general are very reliable. Now take a chill pill LOL

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by eluded

Steering rack every 20k

Injector replaced every 20k

Seriously? Wowzas...

[chassis]

And…no BMWs on the 10 least reliable cars. Someone will post the link to the article.

BMW is in something of a golden age now. Sales volumes, profit and vehicle quality/reliability all in a good place.