[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I didn't realize that they're keeping the ICE Cooper around too. That's great news, but man, who's gonna buy the electric one if you can buy the ICE one and it's gonna be faster, lighter, better, and more Mini Cooper?

It's funny you say this - I had this exact dilemma when I was looking for a 3rd car. I drove the electric cooper and thought, "this is fine... sort of fun... not BAD.... range is terrible but for a beater car that's meant to be driven around town it's fine".

Then I drove the gas powered cooper S and completely forgot the electric version even existed. It's a wonder what some engine noise, vibration, gear changes etc do for the driving experience. SO much more fun to drive than the EV version was. Cherry on top was my wife really wanted a convertible so we ended up ordering a cooper S convertible.

[KevinGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Seriously the "Caddy is for old people" thing is like 25 years out of date. Cadillac has been building enthusiast, athletic, sports oriented cars since the late 1990s. Most of Cadillac's cars beat BMW at its own game, and has been doing so for the better part of 15 years.

������

Most of Cadillac's cars do not beat BMW at its own game. Only their highest-performing V sedans give M models a run for their money. All other Cadillac sedans don't compete with BMW's lineup. Hec, non-V Caddies rarely even get compared to non-M BMWs, probably because they're so far apart in their missions and audiences.

Nevertheless, when I used Caddy earlier to make my point about EVs being a little "fun and silly" in many cases, I mentioned Cadillac EVs as the exception to that concept. I didn't insinuate that this applied to all Cadillacs, though it is likely true that most of the Caddy lineup targets the AARP crowd, except a few V models and maybe the Escalade.

So, yes, Cadillac EVs target a much older audience than most other EVs, and the Caddy EVs are the antithesis of fun and silly.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by mockngbrd

Apologies for missing this bit out for those interested in specs:
The battery capacity in the MINI Cooper E is 40.7 kWh, while in the MINI Cooper SE it is 54.2 kWh.

Interesting comments and takes. Which does seem to validate Mini's approach with this new generation to take the model into two different directions and platforms, the new J01 for purely electric, and the F66 platform (derived from the previous F56 platform) for petrol-powered cars and the new JCW which they ran/tested (with a wrap) over the wkend at the 24H Nurburgring event. So for those who prefer the more current flavour of the Mini, there is still a version made for you, the F66.

Visually the F66 is quite similar to the F66 too.

Thanks for more specs. MINI must be doing some great engineering to pull 240 miles of range from a 54 kWh battery.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Most of Cadillac's cars do not beat BMW at its own game. Only their highest-performing V sedans give M models a run for their money. All other Cadillac sedans don't compete with BMW's lineup. Hec, non-V Caddies rarely even get compared to non-M BMWs, probably because they're so far apart in their missions and audiences.

Nevertheless, when I used Caddy earlier to make my point about EVs being a little "fun and silly" in many cases, I mentioned Cadillac EVs as the exception to that concept. I didn't insinuate that this applied to all Cadillacs, though it is likely true that most of the Caddy lineup targets the AARP crowd, except a few V models and maybe the Escalade.

So, yes, Cadillac EVs target a much older audience than most other EVs, and the Caddy EVs are the antithesis of fun and silly.

I guess then you never drove the ATS. It exposed the F30 for what is was, a Buick. And the 7-series targets 30 year olds? And BMW's X-SUVs don't target soccer moms? A FWD X1 (speaking of Minis)? Please. Lol.

[Mach550]

Originally Posted by mockngbrd

Did I have a stroke cause this makes no sense to me???

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Mach550

Did I have a stroke cause this makes no sense to me???

Yeah, me neither. Maybe it's a Euro "thing".

[BlkGS]

Few more thoughts. The argument of "EV enthusiasts like quirky and minimalist" is silly. Nobody cares what EV enthusiasts think, at least not in the mainstream automakers. Automakers want to go mainstream with their EVs, and so they need to appeal to regular old people. They don't want to fight at great expense over the EV enthusiast niche and make no money off it.

EVs are (largely) cheap, but not low priced. Low priced is good, cheap is not. Cheap is Teslas being empty inside to save on materials, having terrible QC, and only offerong like 3 colors. When you compare Model Y with Mach E, Mach E is much better built, but doesn't come close to the sales.numbers because it's priced higher, and frankly, for the money it still feels cheap.

On the lightning. It's not JUST the screen that kept me away, that was just the deal breaker. It's that at this point Lightning is 2 generations behind f150 in styling. It's that instead of the normal high quality materiala you'd get in a loaded f150, lightning gets much cheaper feeling and looking "eco friendly" materials. Had they just made the light ing a powertrain option, and not a separate model, id probably have one.

Almost all my friends with EVa have a secondary family car for road trips. Those that are EV only rent a (gas) car for trips. Nobody has time for charging on long trips. Range anxiety isn't the problem, it's recharge speed. If you could get juiced up (without doing damage to the vehicle battery) from 0-100% in 2-3 minutes, it'd be a non issue. But when you have to charge from like 20-80 and it takes 15-20 minutes... That's a no for most people.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by KevinGS

Most of Cadillac's cars do not beat BMW at its own game. Only their highest-performing V sedans give M models a run for their money. All other Cadillac sedans don't compete with BMW's lineup. Hec, non-V Caddies rarely even get compared to non-M BMWs, probably because they're so far apart in their missions and audiences.

Nevertheless, when I used Caddy earlier to make my point about EVs being a little "fun and silly" in many cases, I mentioned Cadillac EVs as the exception to that concept. I didn't insinuate that this applied to all Cadillacs, though it is likely true that most of the Caddy lineup targets the AARP crowd, except a few V models and maybe the Escalade.

So, yes, Cadillac EVs target a much older audience than most other EVs, and the Caddy EVs are the antithesis of fun and silly.

Does Caddy even have EVs? They have the new electric Escalade wanna e thing, I don't think that's actually out yet though. But I don't think they have any EVs other than that?

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Does Caddy even have EVs? They have the new electric Escalade wanna e thing, I don't think that's actually out yet though. But I don't think they have any EVs other than that?

The Lyriq

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Mach550

Did I have a stroke cause this makes no sense to me???

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yeah, me neither. Maybe it's a Euro "thing".

We are not the target market apparently, guess the 18 year olds who will have 40-50k for this will understand

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

The Lyriq

I wish you hadn't told me about it. That thing is ugly.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by kyriian

We are not the target market apparently, guess the 18 year olds who will have 40-50k for this will understand

Lol, indeed. I'm sure there's plenty of kids with large enough incomes to want to buy a "silly and cartoon" Mini Cooper that wouldn't rather have something that is a bit more flashy...

[mockngbrd]

Originally Posted by Mach550

Did I have a stroke cause this makes no sense to me???

Haha yea, the result of multiple people talking at the same time.