[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Jeller

I believe Xander was on map 4

I (Jeller) running Procede (old version upgraded to v3 pnp NOT Rev II) with user torque settings at 90%

I would like to see my car on Stg 2 map with user torque about 94% max vs. his Map 6. That would be another great comparo.

Older Procede car (V2) pulls on both of us from the start, he was letting off due to poor tires/not comfortable in cold weather. His user torque settings are 94% tapering to 92%, he has an 08 coupe.

I have to say the older v2 is no joke, his car is fast for old maps. I thought for sure once I upgraded I would edge him out, but have not once since I upgraded to V3 from V1 for me. Makes me curious as to why the older v2 is more powerful ? or is the user torque table with incremental adjustment a better tool ?

Jeller

That doesn't surprise me that the V2 car jumped ahead of you all.
The highest dyno I've ever gotten with any of my tunes on an otherwise stock car was the PROcede v2. The JB3 1.0 was next closest with only 4-5 rwhp less. And the last V3 I had (the first V3) was 12-15 rwhp below that yet.

And the V2 had the most low end torque for sure, that's why he jumped ahead. I think it's pure boost control. V2 had high levels of boost (around 15-15.5 psi peak) where the current V3 and JB3 on "normal" maps are in the 13-14.5 psi range most of the time. The newer maps also ramp up the boost more smoothly. So even though the V2 was worlds better in smoothness over say the v1.x or JB2, the JB3 and V3 are even tuned to be smoother than V2 with less of a "hit" of boost down low.
I never had any issues with my V2, it was a strong runner and made lots of torque, but some had issues and problems with boost spikes and so forth and I believe that's one of the reasons V3 was developed to not only smooth the power out even more, but control boost spikes and be an even safer tune, same goes with JB3 when compared to JB2.

The differences you all saw on the road, could easily be equated to individual cars performance, as well as drivers skill in shifting.
My guess is you jumped on the JB3 car a bit at first simply because of more low end torque (as Map 4 is pretty mild in the torque department below 4000 rpms. But as you all stated once above 4000 rpms and you were both on full boil you stayed even.
The V2 car I'm sure has the best low end torque of them all and a good reason he jumped all at the word go.

But yes, JB3 Map 6 (with it's 10-15 rwtq more below 4000 rpms as well as a bit more on the high end) against the V3 on stage 2 would be a good close race I'm sure. But with manual cars, there's a lot more emphasis on driver shifting skill that can skew the results towards the faster shifter. With auto cars, it's just floor it and go, and the car with more power is going to pull away a bit, no driver influence at all.

[Turkishexpress]

Good comparison. Why didn't you ever put it on map 6 to see how that would hold up? If you get a chance put it on map 6 and do some real pulls from 3rd gear up. On 93 octane you'll will be safe with no other mods all day long

Also if you want to figure out who has more usable torque next time just kick it into 5th gear starting out at 20mph and punch it. We used to do this with our Evo's all the time where you can really compare the torque/boost characteristics and how they present themselves in real world conditions under load. Its funny as shit too. You'll only be going 60mph after about 10 seconds

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Turkishexpress

Also if you want to figure out who has more usable torque next time just kick it into 5th gear starting out at 20mph and punch it. We used to do this with our Evo's all the time where you can really compare the torque/boost characteristics and how they present themselves in real world conditions under load. Its funny as shit too. You'll only be going 60mph after about 10 seconds

I 2nd that. I used to do those types of tests too and with manual cars it's a perfect test of low rpm power.

[Jeller]

Originally Posted by Terrance28

How did the cars stay equal with you starting in 2nd gear and him in third taking off from a 50 mph roll? These tunes almost perform identical so how didn't the tune that was in a lower gear didn't jump ahead. A little more low end power is not gonna do that. A friend of mines has a 460whp GTO & I had a 346whp GTO. We did a couple of rolls with him giving me a edge. I would roll out in 2nd and him from 3rd. The outcome was the same everytime I would jump ahead and hold it into almost until the end of 3rd then he would come soaring past me. So how could you start off in a lower gear and didn't pull on him a little?

2nd gear gets the jump, but the 3rd gear car does not have to shift and ends up being pretty equal. Just playing around a bit with that comparo.

[Jeller]

Originally Posted by Driver72

That doesn't surprise me that the V2 car jumped ahead of you all.
The highest dyno I've ever gotten with any of my tunes on an otherwise stock car was the PROcede v2. The JB3 1.0 was next closest with only 4-5 rwhp less. And the last V3 I had (the first V3) was 12-15 rwhp below that yet.

And the V2 had the most low end torque for sure, that's why he jumped ahead. I think it's pure boost control. V2 had high levels of boost (around 15-15.5 psi peak) where the current V3 and JB3 on "normal" maps are in the 13-14.5 psi range most of the time. The newer maps also ramp up the boost more smoothly. So even though the V2 was worlds better in smoothness over say the v1.x or JB2, the JB3 and V3 are even tuned to be smoother than V2 with less of a "hit" of boost down low.
I never had any issues with my V2, it was a strong runner and made lots of torque, but some had issues and problems with boost spikes and so forth and I believe that's one of the reasons V3 was developed to not only smooth the power out even more, but control boost spikes and be an even safer tune, same goes with JB3 when compared to JB2.

The differences you all saw on the road, could easily be equated to individual cars performance, as well as drivers skill in shifting.
My guess is you jumped on the JB3 car a bit at first simply because of more low end torque (as Map 4 is pretty mild in the torque department below 4000 rpms. But as you all stated once above 4000 rpms and you were both on full boil you stayed even.
The V2 car I'm sure has the best low end torque of them all and a good reason he jumped all at the word go.

But yes, JB3 Map 6 (with it's 10-15 rwtq more below 4000 rpms as well as a bit more on the high end) against the V3 on stage 2 would be a good close race I'm sure. But with manual cars, there's a lot more emphasis on driver shifting skill that can skew the results towards the faster shifter. With auto cars, it's just floor it and go, and the car with more power is going to pull away a bit, no driver influence at all.

I have not driven the V2 car in quite some time as its been put away for most of winter, since then I have upgraded from v1 to v3 so I have no comparison in terms "feeling" with the v2.

and once again these are close races, a car length or so. With that said we are not talking about too much really. I guess that's the fun part... being such good door to door racing is always the best

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Turkishexpress

Good comparison. Why didn't you ever put it on map 6 to see how that would hold up? If you get a chance put it on map 6 and do some real pulls from 3rd gear up. On 93 octane you'll will be safe with no other mods all day long

Also if you want to figure out who has more usable torque next time just kick it into 5th gear starting out at 20mph and punch it. We used to do this with our Evo's all the time where you can really compare the torque/boost characteristics and how they present themselves in real world conditions under load. Its funny as shit too. You'll only be going 60mph after about 10 seconds

I think you should use map #6 also. I am running it on 91 octane and the car runs amazingly strong with no drawbacks at all besides excessive tire wear! I read my computer again today with my oil change. Absolutely nothing irregular at all.

[Proper Motion LLC]

Next time do 2 tests.

20MPH Roll in 4th gear. (race starts at 20MPH @ 1000RPM)

45MPH Roll in 2nd gear. (race starts at 45MPH @ 4500RPM)

Jeller should lose the 20MPH Roll test (nearly an inch taller wheel/tire combo)

[AV9]

thanks for the review! was definitley informative!`

[Xander]

I'll update this thread when we get some dry roads again out here in the tundra. LOL

We didn't get a chance to change maps, but that certainly is a good idea. I will switch out to 6 now actually and let the car adjust to that tune. I thought without supporting mods that map 4 was the ideal one, but I will give it a shot.

Driver72 your post gives us some insight as to why the V2 seems the strongest down low, thanks!

It will be fun to keep testing this stuff out, and with 3 cars available quickly, and some acess to another car with procede (and maybe soon another JB car) these real world comparisons give us a good idea of how things line up.

x...