[Ryan@Motorwerks]

Will you disclose what method you are going to use to tune it?

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Ryan@Motorwerks

Will you disclose what method you are going to use to tune it?

Flash tuning. Its the only way to properly tune a setup making serious power, IMO. We are not going to try and override the OEM ECU. Anyone who says you cannot tune bigger turbo(s) on the stock ECU is 100% full of it / does not know what they are doing with the stock ECU.

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

Wow very nice! I'm impressed.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by ar design

Flash tuning. Its the only way to properly tune a setup making serious power, IMO. We are not going to try and override the OEM ECU.

Now that sounds interesting. I had ruled out the ASR option (whenever that will become available, if it does) that had certain advantages (invisible from the outside due to stock housings) as I don't want to go the piggyback route. However, if a good flash tuner reprograms the ECU, that's a different story, even though I can't really imagine how I'll get it through TÜV...

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by ar design

316 Stainless SCH40 twin-scroll exhaust manifold, off the shelf Borg Warner turbo(s), Tial V-Band wastegates.....

Interesting.

What made you choose Borg Warner over models from Garrett or Turbonetics?



- my 2c - :

Also, I personally would love a larger BB single instead of twins.

- reliability of lower rpm
- not as vulnerable to oil starvation
- better efficiency (faster impeller-speed @ lower rpm, etc ... with a screaming top-end. Doesn't start to choke as soon as smaller ones.)

3L engine will spool a single super fast. I would rather have all the performance and reliability benefits of a single instead of saving 0.2 seconds of lag and adding cost.

also, i'm not talking about a monster drag-racing focused uber-single. just a normal 30r style turbo.

/-my 2c-

-scheherazade

[ar design]

We are shooting for 500whp on pump gas. Borg Warner turbos have larger shafts, and IMO a better compressor wheel design than the Garrett units. And I am not a big fan of twins either so A properly sized single will spool up NASTY quick.

[scheherazade]

Well, the single would shave a grand or two off the parts cost versus a dual... which is another benefit :P

Care to share which turbo model you're thinking about?

I was looking up some of their stuff, and I only found one BB model (Granted that I have no knowledge about this brand).

Or if you don't want to name the parts, maybe you could point me at the general family of models so I could have a nice read.

Thanks,
-scheherazade

[ar design]

We aren't using ball bearing..... These spool up just as fast if not faster than a Garrett though.....

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by ar design

We aren't using ball bearing..... These spool up just as fast if not faster than a Garrett though.....

Welp, I'm ready for you to rock our socks off

Also, if you could run the exhaust headers to raise the turbo a bit, or at least make it removable from the topside, that would be a great maintenance bonus.
Not necessarily a top-mount... just more maintenance-friendly than the current set.

-scheherazade

[ar design]

I'm ready for this thing to be done too. But it takes a LOT of time to develop a product like this. Not to mention, a lot of money.

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by ar design

I'm ready for this thing to be done too. But it takes a LOT of time to develop a product like this. Not to mention, a lot of money.

No 'rush' intended. Just being optimistic.

I'm just happy to see someone working on an upgrade that finally ditches the OEM stuff for something more maintainable.

I'm sure you've got plenty to do. Keep in touch. Pictures would be exciting if/whenever you have em'.

Thanks,
-scheherazade

[dlbrooks18]

Originally Posted by ar design

We are shooting for 500whp on pump gas. Borg Warner turbos have larger shafts, and IMO a better compressor wheel design than the Garrett units. And I am not a big fan of twins either so A properly sized single will spool up NASTY quick.

Exciting news, keep us posted please

[Zeph]

Check out this link:

http://www.turbo-kits.com/350Z_turbo_kits.html

Tons of examples of COMPLETE single and mostly TWIN turbo kits for the 350z... a normally aspirated engine being upgraded to run turbos. Notice these kits includes turbos (mistu, APS, Greddy, Turbonetics...), IC's, all piping, manifolds, intake/filters, I mean you name it these are truly COMPLETE kits. Prices go from about 6k-8k. You can bump it up to around 9K for the "HUGE" turbo kits which I don't think is being discussed for our cars at the moment.

This should give us an idea of what price to "expect" for our kits given they actually include this many parts (which I don't think we will need quite this many parts). All custom kits made from high quality materials just like AR is said to be using.

Of course, let's see if the BMW tax kicks in

[ar design]

Those kits have cast manifolds. A huge part of the cost of our kit is a proper tubular manifold, with a twin scroll setup and two 38mm wastegates. They also are not providing flash tuning.

[scheherazade]

I'm guessing the kit will come with an MBC so that we can 'kick it down a notch' for DD. Procede and JB come with different maps, so you can run more conservative when you're not playing.

Also, are the turbos water and oil cooled?
The N54 already has a water pump that keeps working after shutoff, that keeps us from needing a turbo timer.
If the BW turbos don't have water lines, are you going to include a turbo timer in the kit?

-scheherazade

[ar design]

We are working on getting factory boost control to work. They are not water cooled.

[scheherazade]

I think you should consider a 30r or 35r.

You would have BB which won't suffer if you have oil supply issues (a-la wet sump).

And you'd have water lines, which won't require you to machine fancy stuff to block off the water lines. You'd just need new lines/fittings to attach, and no need for a turbo timer.

-scheherazade

[JoeyFiasco]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Check out this link:

http://www.turbo-kits.com/350Z_turbo_kits.html

Tons of examples of COMPLETE single and mostly TWIN turbo kits for the 350z... a normally aspirated engine being upgraded to run turbos. Notice these kits includes turbos (mistu, APS, Greddy, Turbonetics...), IC's, all piping, manifolds, intake/filters, I mean you name it these are truly COMPLETE kits. Prices go from about 6k-8k. You can bump it up to around 9K for the "HUGE" turbo kits which I don't think is being discussed for our cars at the moment.

This should give us an idea of what price to "expect" for our kits given they actually include this many parts (which I don't think we will need quite this many parts). All custom kits made from high quality materials just like AR is said to be using.

Of course, let's see if the BMW tax kicks in

hopefully we'll be able to salvage some of the current bolt ons, that of course will depend greatly on how the manufactures go on about the turbo kits..

[JesusFrEAk]

dang scheherazade is a freaking turbo guru, lol!!

Anyways this looks awesome guys...keep it coming.

Have you guys found a way around the fuel limits of this car?

Or is everything fine if you stay around 500rwhp?

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by ar design

Those kits have cast manifolds. A huge part of the cost of our kit is a proper tubular manifold, with a twin scroll setup and two 38mm wastegates. They also are not providing flash tuning.

Cast iron manifolds are usually more reliable and retain heat better (good thing for spool up). Only true downside is weight. Cast manifolds cost more for tooling but in the end can be produced cheaply. Tubular manifolds WILL crack, its just a matter of when and at $2400 are ridiculous.

I am curius as to why you would need 2 wategates een though you are going single turbo.

I agree BW turbos have thicker shafts but other than costs i don't see any real reason to not go garrett / BB. IMO just saying BW has "better" wheels does not really cut it unless you are providing more details. A correctly sized GT35r will work perfectly. I prefer BB turbos to journal bearing turbos simply because of reliability issues.

IMO
Manifold - $1000
GT35R correctly configured - $1500
Tial External - $275
SS DP with provisions for External gate - $600
Inlet and outlet piping - $ 350
Misc hardware - $250

Roughly $4000
Flash - $1000

This is with generous allowances for profit. i see no reason for 8000 - 10 k turbo kits. Instead of turbo kits people should be working on making the high pressure fuel pump flow more and remain reliable. IMO thats more important than over priced turbo kits that cannot be used to their full potential.

Harry

[SouthCali335]

Originally Posted by ar design

We are working on getting factory boost control to work. They are not water cooled.

So you guys are saying that the full kit is going to cost over $10k? I dont think too many people will consider it to tell you the truth for that kind of money... Not to mention HPF will probably come out with a kit for a bit more that will toast spank the competition as they have in the past...

Not trying to be a dick or anything so please don't take it the wrong way but i just think you guys should try to work on a solution that doesn't cost so much money...

[ar design]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

Cast iron manifolds are usually more reliable and retain heat better (good thing for spool up). Only true downside is weight. Cast manifolds cost more for tooling but in the end can be produced cheaply. Tubular manifolds WILL crack, its just a matter of when and at $2400 are ridiculous.

I am curius as to why you would need 2 wategates een though you are going single turbo.

I agree BW turbos have thicker shafts but other than costs i don't see any real reason to not go garrett / BB. IMO just saying BW has "better" wheels does not really cut it unless you are providing more details. A correctly sized GT35r will work perfectly. I prefer BB turbos to journal bearing turbos simply because of reliability issues.

IMO
Manifold - $1000
GT35R correctly configured - $1500
Tial External - $275
SS DP with provisions for External gate - $600
Inlet and outlet piping - $ 350
Misc hardware - $250

Roughly $4000
Flash - $1000

This is with generous allowances for profit. i see no reason for 8000 - 10 k turbo kits. Instead of turbo kits people should be working on making the high pressure fuel pump flow more and remain reliable. IMO thats more important than over priced turbo kits that cannot be used to their full potential.

Harry

You're not even close, sorry.

Originally Posted by SouthCali335

So you guys are saying that the full kit is going to cost over $10k? I dont think too many people will consider it to tell you the truth for that kind of money... Not to mention HPF will probably come out with a kit for a bit more that will toast spank the competition as they have in the past...

Not trying to be a dick or anything so please don't take it the wrong way but i just think you guys should try to work on a solution that doesn't cost so much money...

Not what I said. I said LESS than 8-10k...... IE $5,000.