[kaigoss69]

Originally Posted by norcal330

Too funny. I'm no spring chicken either, but I still found the install NTFB (Not Too F-in Bad). Yes, it's a 2-3 beer job, and yes, your wife won't appreciate you being in the garage "taking care of a few things" for about 6-7 hours on a Saturday afternoon while she runs all the errands you were supposed to be doing. But at the end of the day, there's the satisfaction of A) doing it yourself B) saving yourself about $300-$400 and best of all, C) knowing that the only one to lay their hands on your "precious" was yourself. Plus, it just sounds better when you do it yourself...

I agree, this was one of the easiest installs I have ever done. A few beers and a dinner for the wife to make up for the lost attention should do it!

[norcal330]

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

I agree, this was one of the easiest installs I have ever done. A few beers and a dinner for the wife to make up for the lost attention should do it!

I don't know how many dinners I've taken her too! At this point, she just doesn't raise a fuss anymore because she knows I have some "issues". Lucky for her, I don't want to mess around with the E90 as much as I did with my last car. I had the entire interior of that truck stripped out and spread all over the garage so I could install Raammat sound deadening on the floor, ceiling, everywhere. When she saw that she just sighed and walked away...

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by norcal330

The Polyfill is what some people do when they're working with really small enclosures. It is supposed to make the enclosure "act" bigger than it is, and some feel it increases output a tad. Of course, most of this can probably be chalked up to placebo effect, but I've always been able to notice *some* improvement. As always, YMMV...

I've not read that some feel polyfill is a placebo. It's actually a quite useful tool that can be used to help tune the drivers output.

You're idea to use dynamat is a sound one. Pun.
Have you used the "brown bread/B-quiet" product? I used it in my 325i and a 2000 Mits Eclispe. Great stuff and lower cost.
I probably would have added it to the outside though to dampen/deaden the plastic box, leaving more room for the sub and polyfil.
And, yes the polyfil helps the driver produce lower bass extension by mimicking a larger enclosure, as it "slows down" wave propagation.
I always use it in subs.

I think I've asked this before, but didn't get an answer.
Did you seal your enclosures, or did you leave the port open?
I'm going to seal mine up. I've got plenty of power for it, and I've always preferred sealed enclosures.

[norcal330]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I've not read that some feel polyfill is a placebo. It's actually a quite useful tool that can be used to help tune the drivers output.

You're idea to use dynamat is a sound one. Pun.
Have you used the "brown bread/B-quiet" product? I used it in my 325i and a 2000 Mits Eclispe. Great stuff and lower cost.
I probably would have added it to the outside though to dampen/deaden the plastic box, leaving more room for the sub and polyfil.
And, yes the polyfil helps the driver produce lower bass extension by mimicking a larger enclosure, as it "slows down" wave propagation.
I always use it in subs.

I think I've asked this before, but didn't get an answer.
Did you seal your enclosures, or did you leave the port open?
I'm going to seal mine up. I've got plenty of power for it, and I've always preferred sealed enclosures.

Oh, there are plenty of doubters re: Polyfill. I think it's because it's so cheap and simple, some doubt it's effectiveness. Perhaps they've never tried it before? I think it works!!!

I used Raammat. Trust me, I've had many issues with edead, brown bread, fatmat in the past. Raammat sticks like hell, has nice thickness, is butyl based, has a nice thick retaining layer and best of all doens't cost an arm and a leg.

Re: the port, DO NOT plug this up. This is not a true port, but rather a port which vents into a chamber underneath the door sill to increase the enclosure volume. The enclosure + the chamber are effectively a sealed chamber which is connected via this port. Besides, if you've ever seen the enclosure itself, there's no more than .3 cubic feet of volume there, which is why they used the chamber under the sill to increeas ethe volume.

[skh]

Originally Posted by Technic

If what you are really looking for is the easiest installation then get this;

- JL Audio 300/2v2 amp - http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=436
- JL Audio RCA to Speaker Wire Plugs cable - http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_c...l.php?cat_id=5
- SWS-8 in either the 4 or 2 ohms.
- follow the DIY to install the SWS-8 in the enclosure only.

To install the amp you need to tell me first what sound system do you have, standard or Logic7, and then I can tell you exactly how to connect this JL amp the easiest possible.

Technic, this looks very interesting. How would you connect the amp with a standard system?

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by norcal330

Oh, there are plenty of doubters re: Polyfill. I think it's because it's so cheap and simple, some doubt it's effectiveness. Perhaps they've never tried it before? I think it works!!!

I used Raammat. Trust me, I've had many issues with edead, brown bread, fatmat in the past. Raammat sticks like hell, has nice thickness, is butyl based, has a nice thick retaining layer and best of all doens't cost an arm and a leg.

Re: the port, DO NOT plug this up. This is not a true port, but rather a port which vents into a chamber underneath the door sill to increase the enclosure volume. The enclosure + the chamber are effectively a sealed chamber which is connected via this port. Besides, if you've ever seen the enclosure itself, there's no more than .3 cubic feet of volume there, which is why they used the chamber under the sill to increeas ethe volume.

I'll have to check that "Raammat".

Thanks for the heads up on the "port" question.
I'll get a much better idea of the setup once I get in there. I've seen many install pics, but not much showing the expansion area.

It is interesting that it does that. Why not just use the whole available space as one big enclosure instead of "porting" it into the other space?
Doesn't make sense really.
Granted, if the port is not open to the outside in any way, then it's not truly a "port" as it's commonly known, but I wonder why they choose to do it that way?

I may try blocking it anyway, and leaving it open just so I can better understand why they did this.

Thanks again.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by skh

Technic, this looks very interesting. How would you connect the amp with a standard system?

The cable in the link above is a wire-to-RCA, so you can easily tap either the OEM HU/idrive outputs (5V peak, full range, low level differential signals) or the OEM amp underseat woofer outputs (around 9V peak, low pass, high level signals) and connect that cable to those signals.

The difference between using the OEM HU/iDrive outputs and the OEM amp outputs is that if you use a full range signal you can then fine tune your low pass frequency using the 300/2v2 built in low pass filter so you can maximixe the new bass capabilities of the SWS-8. If you use the OEM amp outputs you will be getting an already filtered low pass frequency that was set to work the best with the OEM woofers. So the choice of tuning or just use what is there is yours.

Once those OEM wires are tapped then you will have a set of stereo RCAs that you can plug into the 300/2v2 inputs. Set that amp switch to high level (11V peak max input), adjust gains, set low pass filter cutoff or just set the filtering to off depending of output used and that's it. Either output can be accepted by the 300/2v2 and there is a signal sensing feature that could be used to turn on the amp without the need of a remote signal connection. This signal sensing is kind of shaky, so try it and if any problems of turning on or noise is noted just get the proper remote signal connected and forget about this feature.

[bimmer01]

Very interesting, i know JL stuff is of excellent quality!

[skh]

Thanks Technic. That's a very helpful description and seems way easier than doing azwillNJ's full install. The key issue seems to be whether the signal sensing feature can be made to work.

[VP Electricity]

Remember that when using RCA connectors with either balanced or speaker-level signals, you may have a problem which is easily avoided.

Many nice RCAs use a metal outer housing which is electrically connected to the outer shield. If these metal housings touch each other, or if either touches metal in the car, there is usually no problem (RCA connectors are supposed to carry chassis ground connection on the outer shield).

But when carrying either speaker-level or balanced signals, if these outer housings get"shorted", bad sound ensues.

If you have any cable configuration where an RCA to RCA connection could touch the metal in the car or touch each other, just wrap them in electrical tape.

[norcal330]

Originally Posted by skh

Thanks Technic. That's a very helpful description and seems way easier than doing azwillNJ's full install. The key issue seems to be whether the signal sensing feature can be made to work.

The remote sensing feature on these amps is notoriously flaky. If you're only doing the under-seat sub upgrade and a sub amp, I highly recommend the Pac Trunk-LOC, or something similar.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by norcal330

The remote sensing feature on these amps is notoriously flaky. If you're only doing the under-seat sub upgrade and a sub amp, I highly recommend the Pac Trunk-LOC, or something similar.

If the OEM system is the standard 10-speaker, the OEM remote turn on is pin 10 in the OEM amp connector.

If the OEM system is Logic7, the OEM remote turn on is pin 13 in the rear main connector of the OEM HU/iDrive.

[norcal330]

Originally Posted by Technic

If the OEM system is the standard 10-speaker, the OEM remote turn on is pin 10 in the OEM amp connector.

If the OEM system is Logic7, the OEM remote turn on is pin 13 in the rear main connector of the OEM HU/iDrive.

The problem with the OEM remote turn leads on is that they don't provide enough voltage to turn-on an aftermarket amp (at least my Alpine). That is why I used the trunk-loc. Saved me from havnig to run a wire to somewhere near the front of the car.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by norcal330

The problem with the OEM remote turn leads on is that they don't provide enough voltage to turn-on an aftermarket amp (at least my Alpine). That is why I used the trunk-loc. Saved me from havnig to run a wire to somewhere near the front of the car.

You can always use a simple relay triggered by this OEM wire and the 12V in the same OEM amp connector. Or if an LC6i is used this OEM wire will turn it on and then the LC6i will relay this OEM signal thru its own circuitry to turn on any number of aftermarket devices with up to 1A output.

The important thing with the OEM wire is that it behaves exactly like OEM. Any other 12V switched wire is not synchronized/timed to the OEM audio system like this signal. For example, if you turn off the car while having a Bluetooth conversation going on the OEM remote signal will stay on until the call is finished. The other switched 12V signals turn off with the ignition... with your aftermarket amp, so there will not be any audio from that amp.

[norcal330]

Originally Posted by Technic

You can always use a simple relay triggered by this OEM wire and the 12V in the same OEM amp connector. Or if an LC6i is used this OEM wire will turn it on and then the LC6i will relay this OEM signal thru its own circuitry to turn on any number of aftermarket devices with up to 1A output.

The important thing with the OEM wire is that it behaves exactly like OEM. Any other 12V switched wire is not synchronized/timed to the OEM audio system like this signal. For example, if you turn off the car while having a Bluetooth conversation going on the OEM remote signal will stay on until the call is finished. The other switched 12V signals turn off with the ignition... with your aftermarket amp, so there will not be any audio from that amp.

I agree with everything you're saying. All I'm saying is that for people like the OP and myself, who don't have a lot of audio install experience, or don't want to spend too much extra $$$ on an LC6i, the Trunk-LOC is a simple-to install, and inexpensive component which makes the install of an aftermarket sub very easy. I wouldn't worry to much about the amp turning off with the car. All you're losing in this case is the subs. Your bluetooth conversation can carry on off the OEM amp, right?? I've never noticed any ill effects of having the sub amp turn on & off using the Trunk-LOC. It's worked just as I hoped...

[skh]

Originally Posted by norcal330

I agree with everything you're saying. All I'm saying is that for people like the OP and myself, who don't have a lot of audio install experience, or don't want to spend too much extra $$$ on an LC6i, the Trunk-LOC is a simple-to install, and inexpensive component which makes the install of an aftermarket sub very easy. I wouldn't worry to much about the amp turning off with the car. All you're losing in this case is the subs. Your bluetooth conversation can carry on off the OEM amp, right?? I've never noticed any ill effects of having the sub amp turn on & off using the Trunk-LOC. It's worked just as I hoped...

I also don't have any audio wiring/install experience. But would wiring the Trunk-LOC be any easier than using a relay, as Technic suggested? It seems like both require about the same effort/skill. I don't really know though.

[dejav0o]

Why would the AMP turn off with the car? Theoretically, as long as the stock amp is still sending a signal to the subs, that should trigger the LOC unit to continue sending an 'on' signal to the remote, so the aftermarket amp should stay on. Am I missing something?

Also, I'm assuming when you said the car is 'off' the engine is dead, but you're still listening to the radio. Obviously, if the radio is off, then the aftermarket amp won't be on, at least that's how I imagined it.

[norcal330]

Originally Posted by skh

I also don't have any audio wiring/install experience. But would wiring the Trunk-LOC be any easier than using a relay, as Technic suggested? It seems like both require about the same effort/skill. I don't really know though.

Well probably the same amount of work, but installation would be a little more complex with the relay, particularly if you don't really have much experience. The Trunk-LOC only requires 4 OEM wires (sub wires) to be cut for an aftermarket amp to be installed. The other connections from the Trunk-LOC go to the aftermarkets amplifier's power, ground and remote terminals. No OEM remote tapping is necessary as it uses the sub signal for remote turn-on.

With a relay, you will need to cut the 4 sub wires AND tap into the OEM remote and power wires.

The main benefit with the Trunk-LOC is that you don't need to cut into any additional wires in the harness. On top of that, you get the Hi-Lo conversion which may give you a cleaner sound (also if your amp doesn't have high-level inputs). It comes with SIMPLE wiring instructions which would help any novice and it's also very inexpensive ($24).

[Technic]

Originally Posted by dejav0o

Why would the AMP turn off with the car? Theoretically, as long as the stock amp is still sending a signal to the subs, that should trigger the LOC unit to continue sending an 'on' signal to the remote, so the aftermarket amp should stay on. Am I missing something?

Also, I'm assuming when you said the car is 'off' the engine is dead, but you're still listening to the radio. Obviously, if the radio is off, then the aftermarket amp won't be on, at least that's how I imagined it.

The signal sensing of the JL Audio built-in that I'm talking about seems to be "temperamental" with BMW audio systems. It could either work flawlessly, could turn the amp on an off at random times or simply create turn on/off pops depending on the signal input levels based on my experience.

If you use a switched 12V wire for remote turn on signal for the amp -instead of the OEM remote signal- the amp will turn off when you turn off the car.

The OEM remote signal works independently from the ignition and from any 12V switched source other than the radio. The radio can stay on for 20 minutes of so after turning the engine off, and the OEM remote signal will turn off some 2 minutes of so after that. This signal turns on as soon as you open a door or trunk as well.

[fdiprete]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I'll have to check that "Raammat".

Thanks for the heads up on the "port" question.
I'll get a much better idea of the setup once I get in there. I've seen many install pics, but not much showing the expansion area.

It is interesting that it does that. Why not just use the whole available space as one big enclosure instead of "porting" it into the other space?
Doesn't make sense really.
Granted, if the port is not open to the outside in any way, then it's not truly a "port" as it's commonly known, but I wonder why they choose to do it that way?

I may try blocking it anyway, and leaving it open just so I can better understand why they did this.

Thanks again.

I tried this, and really, DO NOT, block that "port" which is really a portal to a larger air space. There is close to zero air space in that tiny enclosure. (0.3 as stated before). Blocking it yields really really bad results - and the added bonus of taking the thing apart again to remove it.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by norcal330

Well probably the same amount of work, but installation would be a little more complex with the relay, particularly if you don't really have much experience. The Trunk-LOC only requires 4 OEM wires (sub wires) to be cut for an aftermarket amp to be installed. The other connections from the Trunk-LOC go to the aftermarkets amplifier's power, ground and remote terminals. No OEM remote tapping is necessary as it uses the sub signal for remote turn-on.

With a relay, you will need to cut the 4 sub wires AND tap into the OEM remote and power wires.

The main benefit with the Trunk-LOC is that you don't need to cut into any additional wires in the harness. On top of that, you get the Hi-Lo conversion which may give you a cleaner sound (also if your amp doesn't have high-level inputs). It comes with SIMPLE wiring instructions which would help any novice and it's also very inexpensive ($24).

The only LOC that can give you a cleaner signal than the source is an active LOC... a passive LOC by design cannot give you a cleaner signal than the source. It will lower the distortion of the signal of course, but that is because is lowering as much the original level of the signal itself.

Less distortion with proportionaly less signal is no cleaner signal, it is the same signal but smaller in amplitude.

[norcal330]

Originally Posted by Technic

The only LOC that can give you a cleaner signal than the source is an active LOC... a passive LOC by design cannot give you a cleaner signal than the source. It will lower the distortion of the signal of course, but that is because is lowering as much the original level of the signal itself.

Less distortion with proportionaly less signal is no cleaner signal, it is the same signal but smaller in amplitude.

How would using a passive LOC's low-level RCA output compare to using the internal High-Level conversion capabilities of most aftermarket amps? That is what I was referring to when I said it MAY give you a cleaner sound. Of course, I have no technical data to validate my statement, but I would still assume that an external passive LOC might sound better than using high-level inputs.

My only reference for this was when I put an Infinity Basslink into my wife's G35 years ago using the high-level inputs. It sounded like poop.