[A.Kon]

Originally Posted by Belarus

I'm all for the police to enforce traffic laws, and probably would never challenge them specially speeding if it was not directly impacting my insurance rate. I would consider it a fee you pay for getting faster from point A to B.

I am in exactly the same train of thought. I have no problem paying a speeding ticket if I was going too fast, but for the fear of how much my insurance premium would rise, I will always fight any ticket, even if it's only 1 kph over the limit. To the insurance companies a 1 kph over the limit ticket = 49 kph over the limit ticket - get 3 of them in 3 years and be prepared to say hello to facility insurance and be labelled a "wreckless driver" for the next 5 years.

Since I have seen first hand how insurance companies will rape innocent people with their outrageous premiums, I gladly pay my lawyer $300 to fight every one of my tickets. Sometimes they win, sometimes they only lower the speed, but in the end I feel like they are saving me thousands of $ in premiums.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by Me_Hi

<Then tell me why then is the Autobahn, at which traffic averages 120 MPH, the safest highway in the world. In fact, the autobahn goes as far as to have absolutely no speed limit through parts of it. Speed doesn't kill, bad drivers do.>

no dissrespect here but do you know the driving schools here ? Please do not compare them with the ones in Europe. First of all, no AT there so all cars pretty much standard. For example, they'll make you go on a 45 degree ramp, make a complete stop and have to advance without going backwards not even 1 mm. In Canada, ANYBODY can get a driver license.....

No offense taken . That's the beauty of the public forums for people to share and express their experiences and views.

I agree with you 100%, it's much more difficult to get your drivers license in Europe, which weeds out individuals that are risk behind the steering wheel.

The other difference you notice between North American driving style and European is respect for the other driver and road etiquette. Some examples:
One of the biggest things you notice driving in Europe (Germany, Belgium, Spain, France, Italy) when there is no traffic jam the understanding of the left lane. It's for passing NOT for driving in it. How many times we've come across driving in North America going fast in the left lane just to hit brakes because some one in it doing 105-110 and not even checking his/hers rear view mirror on the regular bases. Then when they do have no respect for a faster driver to let them pass by moving to the right. They'll make you change to the right lane and pass them on the right. Big NO NO in Europe and you'll for certain get a dirty look and if it's a truck driver he might even do something special for you for attempting to pass on the right.
Second, using turn signal for changing lanes and using it properly, i.e. you don't turn it on as you change the lane vs at least 10 seconds before to allow other driver to see your intentions specially if he/she is in your blind spot and allow them to react accordingly to avoid an accident. Then you have idiots that interpret you turning on turn signal as a reason for them to speed up and get beside you, still trying to understand that driving mentality and the reason behind it.

It's this type of driving behaviors vs speed that lead to road rage, driving disrespect for each other and at the end increase number of accidents.

[hubble bubble]

Originally Posted by A.Kon

Maybe that's ok out east ... but what's happening in Toronto is outrageous imo.

There's more than a few threads about tickets in the GTA. I just read one with Jim Kenzie's article - his opinions of Toronto traffic ticketing is clear to me if you read between the lines; not that I value all of his opinions all that much but atleast he's a notable public figure who also disagrees with what local law enforcement is doing and made a publis statement about it.

In Toronto, if you get a ticket - just fight it. Yea you were probably speeding and breaking the law, but technically 5 kph over the limit or coming to a rolling stop at a light or stop sign is also breaking the law.

Traffic enforcement shouldn't be black and white, and abusing it is literally highway robbery.


Anyone get a ticket for not having a bell on their bicycle yet? I heard the police are beginning to crack down on this too ... cash grab ... that's just ghey - I can't believe our police have nothing better to do.

The law says you need a bell, whistle or other warnign device on a bicycle. To me, yelling "look out" is a pretty good warning device. And if cop gave someone a ticket for not having a bell, there is a good chance the k=bike rider was riding like a sphincter and the cop was looking for soemthign to charge him with.

[hubble bubble]

Have to agree with AKon and Belarus.....be polite, take off your sunglasses, say yes sir/maam, etc. It often goes a long way, not only for not giving the cops and excuse to go everything they can, but sometimes you'll get a warning.

If they give you a ticket, then ask for thier badge number. It is on the ticket, so they'll point it out to you. Then fight the ticket. There is a chance they won't show up. When you do, find that officer. Tell him/her you were planning on asking for an adjournment because your legal counsel was unavailable today, but you plan on fighting it. Chances are they will agree to lower the charge/points/fine if you plead guilty. All the guilty pleas go first, then the other adminstrative stuff, then the "not guilty". The cop doesn;t want to sit aroudn the courtroom for 2-3 hours any more than you do and doesn;t want to risk loosing the conviction, so they will bargain. If you do it politely.

[A.Kon]

Originally Posted by hubble bubble

The law says you need a bell, whistle or other warnign device on a bicycle. To me, yelling "look out" is a pretty good warning device. And if cop gave someone a ticket for not having a bell, there is a good chance the k=bike rider was riding like a sphincter and the cop was looking for soemthign to charge him with.

No seriously. I heard cops in Toronto are just standing around on certain bike paths in the GTA and stopping people and inspecting for a frickin bell !

I actually have a bell so I don't care but really ... handing out $60 fines for not having a bell?! Toronto City workers are starting to lose touch with reality.


It's about as stupid as if city garbage people were on strike because they can no longer accrue sick days to take a 2 year paid vacation ...


Oh wait, that's actually happening in Toronto too.
WTF?

[I3aby]

just read through the thread
it is very helpful!!
Thanks!

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by A.Kon

No seriously. I heard cops in Toronto are just standing around on certain bike paths in the GTA and stopping people and inspecting for a frickin bell !

I actually have a bell so I don't care but really ... handing out $60 fines for not having a bell?! Toronto City workers are starting to lose touch with reality.


It's about as stupid as if city garbage people were on strike because they can no longer accrue sick days to take a 2 year paid vacation ...


Oh wait, that's actually happening in Toronto too.
WTF?

Don't get me started on the garbage strike in Toronto....Thank god I live in Mississauga, that would be another 2 pages of essay

The mandatory bell on the bicycle.... another money grabbing law that politician genius must of came up with too much free time on his/her hands. You laugh initially because you think it's joke, then you think for a minute .....and say damn my TAX dollars were "well" spend on the salary of the politicians who came up with that bright idea and the rest who voted in favor to pass it.

[zuluZero]

Originally Posted by Belarus

No offense taken . That's the beauty of the public forums for people to share and express their experiences and views.
...

To the OP: I think that more people could evaluate your strategy if you provide more references to it's source and basis in law.

To all the people who think or post "You broke some rule, so just pay", please take some time to consider the information and opinions being posted. You might just change your mind as a bigger picture becomes clear to you.

Most of our legislation and ideas of law enforcement are decades old, and have become entrenched in society as quietly accepted norm. However, behind the scenes, law enforcement has been using technology to automate and scale the process: centralized databases, mobile computing, red light cameras, video, laser/photo radar, and "breathalyzers" (let's not even mention Tazzzers..). One officer can dole out far more fines per day than ever before. It's big business, and they have big political / media clout too.

Now, individuals have the opportunity to leverage technology too. Internet forums can arm people with knowledge that they wouldn't have gone to the library to research. Yes, there's more misinformation than not, but most people can get past that with a little effort. There is strength in numbers. If enough people learn about the flaws of the system, and protest it, you can effect change. Stunt driving - section 172 of the Ontario HTA is a perfect example: politically manipulated into existence by the police, for the police, regardless of facts, logic or constitutional rights.

Do you really feel like police are protecting society by handing out +15kph speeding tickets in deserted industrial roads - or would you like to get them enforcing other laws that are statistically more related to accidents? (hint: park near intersections and bars ). Protesting "quota" speed traps might be the only way to force the police "business" to change.


Damn...just thinking about Canada's Worst Driver....I simply lost the will to finish this rant

I recommend www.ticketcombat.com for a good place to learn about your options to dispute an infraction. It's pretty educational, and doesn't appear to be "just an advertisement" for paralegals.

[A.Kon]

Originally Posted by Belarus

You laugh initially because you think it's joke, then you think for a minute .....and say damn my TAX dollars were "well" spend on the salary of the politicians who came up with that bright idea and the rest who voted in favor to pass it.

Omg Belarus, you and I are on exactly the same wave length! LOL. It's really too bad we don't run the city.

I actually make a quite a bit of money (at least it is to me). Enough so that my income taxes in a year would have paid for my new car outright and then some. Just to be clear, I honestly have no problems paying taxes for social programs, health care, education and even those public services that I never use. But to know that a fraction of my tax dollars also go to pay for a cop's salary and the system to charge me for a ticket so my insurance company can also charge me more ... I just have to rant about how despicable it is.

Fight your tickets guys. Simply paying for them doesn't benefit anyone.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by A.Kon

Omg Belarus, you and I are on exactly the same wave length! LOL. It's really too bad we don't run the city.

I actually make a quite a bit of money (at least it is to me). Enough so that my income taxes in a year would have paid for my new car outright and then some. Just to be clear, I honestly have no problems paying taxes for social programs, health care, education and even those public services that I never use. But to know that a fraction of my tax dollars also go to pay for a cop's salary and the system to charge me for a ticket so my insurance company can also charge me more ... I just have to rant about how despicable it is.

LMAO.... I think the reason we think so a like because I'm also in 43% tax bracket. Got to luv it when u see your pay slip and look at the gross pay column that makes you go, then u look at the Net Pay column and you want to , then you look at deductions column and you want to when you look at health care, education, road conditions, public transporation degrading in front of your eyes and goverment offices e.g. MTO, Traffic Court houses, walk in clinic line ups getting longer, and there will be nothing left in the Canadian Pension plan left in 10 years. Considering on average across Canada unemployment rate is 5% outside deprecision/recession times and we don't really have an army, no offence intended to our Canadian man and women in armforces .... where are our tax $$$ being invested for us to continue to say this is the best country to live in .

BTW I think this is becoming the original subject was dispute traffic ticket, please comment.

[Me_Hi]

fight the ticket

[alanchan]

ok guys,

thank you for all your wonderful and helpful comments.

I was telling you guys this ticket dispute method actually work in BC ONLY.
the victum was my friend and he email me the advice.

[tin313]

i dont know if i have the balls as to piss the officer off that badly but this thread is definitely worth reading. very good info.

[alanchan]

Originally Posted by tin313

i dont know if i have the balls as to piss the officer off that badly but this thread is definitely worth reading. very good info.

you don't need to piss him off, never do that, otherwise he will find any other ways to nail you, say suspect with drugs or weapons etc...and search your car which you don't want to do.
like the guys said, Toronto cops got tons of power.

[Me_Hi]

I pissed an officer once.....
He gave me 4 tickets at once for accelerating trough an amber light at ( now you know why I pay 487/month insurance ) I told him : You didn't get laid last night or why 4 tickets ? The guy turned red so it must've been the truth. I fought the tickets and got away with just one of them....

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by alanchan

ok guys,

thank you for all your wonderful and helpful comments.

I was telling you guys this ticket dispute method actually work in BC ONLY.
the victum was my friend and he email me the advice.

Anytime, lucky for him if it worked in BC. Pretty positive it won't fly in Ontario.

[edisonchenFTW]

hey guys,

ive been keeping up with this thread all along and its pretty interesting stuff that you guys bring up, and today i was "blessed" enough to receive a speeding ticket on Marine way (LOL guess its the end of the month and the pigs have to meet their quota)..

judging from everyone's posts, im definately not gonna be a sucker this time around and will dispute this ticket for sure.. i was in a hurry today which led to me receiving this ticket so i didnt hv the time (or the balls) to use "alanchan"s suggested method of citing out the Bill of Exchange act..

so i am just wondering when you guys go to court to dispute..what do you bring up as your defense? or will you basically have nothing to say if the cop shows in court?.. i got pulled over today side-by-side with a pickup truck in the lane beside me and the one cop clocked my speed at 78.. how can u clock 2 cars at once? can i use that as my defense? please give me other suggestions as to what you guys would say in court to defend urself.. i will be sure to cancel the first court date as well as plenty of members here suggest...

also, since my license isnt registered under any car (the e92's insurance is registered under my mother) will her insurance increase because of this if i end up having to pay the ticket?

thanks

[alanchan]

Originally Posted by edisonchenFTW

i got pulled over today side-by-side with a pickup truck in the lane beside me and the one cop clocked my speed at 78.. how can u clock 2 cars at once?

I was in the court last year, one guy also dispute a similiar case as yours
he questioned the cop for the accuracy of the instrument.
there was no proof of the laser gun tagged to his license #.
the cop just told him he was travelling at 75 km/hr, here is your ticket.
as he was saying all other surrounding cars were going faster than him, why he got the ticket instead.

I didn't know he won or not.
What I recall is the cop said the laser gun do have a + - reading.
well, 100% accurate or not, I can't say, maybe someone else can clarify

Dispute and good luck

[Belarus]

Additional reasons to consider why you want to plea NOT guilty and fight the ticket:

Reasons Why You Should Fight an Ontario Traffic Ticket

1. Insurance Rates- "Will my insurance go up?" Once you pay a traffic ticket in Ontario you are pleading guilty to the offence and it will immediately show up on your driving record for your insurance company to see. Even if you don’t win you will still have the luxury of postponing the traffic ticket charge from appearing on your driving record by fighting it. This is especially helpful when you have a traffic ticket that will be coming off of your record in a few months, avoiding multiple traffic convictions that could affect your insurance. Generally 2 (two) minor traffic offences will act as one major traffic offence in the eye of most insurance companies.
2. Future Toronto Traffic Tickets - One traffic ticket may not worry you and your insurance company may even forgive you without increasing your insurance rates. But what if you receive another traffic ticket within the next three years? In our opinion it is always smart to think ahead and avoid these stressful situations in the future.
3. Keeping a Clean Driving Record – Some jobs may require you to have a clean driving record. In Ontario a traffic ticket is not listed on your drivers abstract until you are convicted of that ticket in court. Fighting a Toronto traffic ticket or any ticket in Ontario, can postpone it being listed on your driving record for up to a year or more.
4. Demerit Points - A Toronto Traffic Ticket may include more than just the fine amount listed on the ticket. Most traffic tickets come with Demerit Points against your licence. If you accumulate too many Demerit Points, the Ministry of Transportation of Ontario (MTO) may suspend your driver's licence.
5. Police/Officers are sometimes wrong - The Highway Traffic Act (HTA) is only a small aspect of what police officers learn at the Police Academy. Not only is the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (HTA) very detailed, but it is also easily misinterpreted. A good example of a police officer misunderstandings of the Highway Traffic Act (HTA) is the stop sign offence. The police officer had stated in the officer's notes (disclosure) that driver failed to stop at the stop sign for the full 3 seconds. Fortunately Highway Traffic Act, HTA, does not state anywhere within it that a driver must stop for a full 3 seconds at a stop sign. I.E. if you've come to a complete stop even for 1 second you have not violated traffic law.

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by tin313

i dont know if i have the balls as to piss the officer off that badly but this thread is definitely worth reading. very good info.

As much as we would love too give a cop hard time for being pulled over right or wrong. IMHO this is the best you can do, as the saying goes you'll catch more flies with honey vs vinegar:

1. Don’t try anything funny. This isn’t the time to be argumentative — or, even worse, make the officer worry about whether or not you might be dangerous.

• Pull over promptly and carefully, ideally where the cop will not be worried being hit by another car as he approaching or stands besides your vehicle
• Turn your engine off
• Turn on the hazard lights
• Roll down your driver’s side window specially if they're tinted
• Keep your hands clearly visible on your steering wheel.
• Be excessively polite
• Only go fumbling around for documents when you’re asked to do so.

2. What to say. Concentrate on saying as little as possible. You’re under no obligation to admit to anything specific; when asked why you think you were pulled over, you can simply say, “I don't know.” Practice saying such non-committal phrases as “I see” and “Hmmm.” The objective is to avoid shooting yourself in the foot, if your strategy to plea NOT guilty and fight it in the court, no reason incriminate yourself, because cop will make notes of your statement to his questions.


3. ‘Can I get a warning?’ It doesn't hurt to ask for one, especially if you haven’t been pulled over for years. If u were acting like a jackass skip this step .


Steps 1 and 2 saved my ass 4 weeks ago from being charged with stunt driving and if the cop wanted to push the envelope could of slapped me with racing and consequences it carries in Ontario. I was shitting BRICKS !!! I followed this simple steps showed the officer utmost respect and got only charged with unsafe lane with the comment "you can challenge it in the Traffic Court if you wish too", which I will.

Worse case scenario even if I lose, unsafe lane conviction certainly beats stunt driving on your record (automatic min 50% insurance increase for the next 5 years, 6 demerits points, and your driving rating becomes HIGH RISK driver).

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by edisonchenFTW

hey guys,

.... i was "blessed" enough to receive a speeding ticket on Marine way (LOL guess its the end of the month and the pigs have to meet their quota)..

judging from everyone's posts, im definately not gonna be a sucker this time around and will dispute this ticket for sure.. i was in a hurry today which led to me receiving this ticket so i didnt hv the time (or the balls) to use "alanchan"s suggested method of citing out the Bill of Exchange act..

so i am just wondering when you guys go to court to dispute..what do you bring up as your defense? or will you basically have nothing to say if the cop shows in court?.. i got pulled over today side-by-side with a pickup truck in the lane beside me and the one cop clocked my speed at 78.. how can u clock 2 cars at once? can i use that as my defense? please give me other suggestions as to what you guys would say in court to defend urself.. i will be sure to cancel the first court date as well as plenty of members here suggest...

thanks

Step-by-Step Guide to Fight Your Ticket http://fightyourtickets.ca/how-to-fi...arking-ticket/


Think about your defence:
You might want to study the exact wording of the law you’re charged under, see example I've posted about NOT stopping at the STOP sign for 3 seconds. You'll need to search the web for BC Highway Traffic Act. The following link is for Ontario: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm#BK308

Request for disclosure i.e. the officer’s notes and any other evidence that will be presented against you . This will help to avoid surprises, request a copy of these notes in advance of your court date. These notes will document whatever you said in that nervous rush of energy when you got pulled over. Related information http://fightyourtickets.ca/tickets/disclosure/
http://www.toronto.ca/court_services/forms/disclosure_request.pdf There must be something similar on the Web for BC.

The following are some of the strategies defending yourself:

READ Step-by-Step Guide to Fight Your Ticket !!!!!!!

1. The easiest way to win is, hope the Cop doesn't show up. If you were caught in the speed trap 99.99% the cop will be in court, count on it (exception, he got sick or died), since everyone who got caught in the speed trap on that day and decided to fight it will be scheduled for the same day, so you better believe it cop will be there
2. Precedence set by Regina v. Askov, [1990] 2 S.C.R. 1199 (Supreme Court of Canada) case, which has to do with the CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS Section 11(b) to be tried within a reasonable time; http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter...-ga:l_I-gb:s_7 basically if the set court date is more than 10 months from the date of the ticket issued, you can request the case to be dismissed on the grounds that your rights under Canadian Charter of Rights have been violated. There is a form that needs to be filled before you go to trial, but I can't find it anymore. EDIT: found it - If the trial date is more than 10 months from the date of the alleged infraction you should begin preparing an Application for a Stay of Proceedings to halt the action against you for violation of your Constitutional Right to a speedy trial. http://fightyourtickets.ca/tickets/a...f-proceedings/. BTW If you cancel the first court date this defense can't be used by counting from the original date of charge.
3. If the cop does show up try to request for adjournment, but have a good reason why you're requesting it. Saying “I'm not prepared" this days specially if your trial date is 6 months since you've been charged doesn't cut it if Crown Attorney is prepared to proceed and the cop showed up.
4. Read the following http://www.beatmyspeedingticket.com/busted/busted.pdf even though it's book promoting there are some good information specially section:

• • Odds of winning (specially part about hiring traffic defense attorney
    
  • Ticket Defense Myths – Have you heard this ?
  • Actual Trial Transcript (some of my friends used the approach in the transcript and were successful getting speeding ticket dismissed or having Crown Attorney request for adjournment)

Do your homework and research there is a lot of good information on the web if you're willing to invest time and search for it.

OR

Hire a GOOD traffic lawyer. If you do make sure you negotiate the condition under which you'll pay their fee, since they'll consider reducing your charge as a WIN. Well in Ontario and I'm assuming the same in BC you can reduce your charge on your own by showing up in the court and Crown as a rule of thumb will offer everyone a reduced speeding charge before court proceedings start. So make sure the condition and definition of WIN is that their is NO conviction that goes on your driving record, otherwise you don't pay. Take opportunity to attend Traffic Court that you'll be appearing at in advance to observer the proceedings so you know what to expect.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a legal adviser nor do I practice law. The information I've provided is based on the research I've done and use to represent and defend myself in the traffic courts, and happy to share, however using it is at your own risk.

Good Luck

[Belarus]

Originally Posted by zuluZero

To the OP: I think that more people could evaluate your strategy if you provide more references to it's source and basis in law.

I recommend www.ticketcombat.com for a good place to learn about your options to dispute an infraction. It's pretty educational, and doesn't appear to be "just an advertisement" for paralegals.

Tickets in Toronto Stats:http://fightyourtickets.ca/statistic...ts-in-toronto/ That should make you jaw drop on How Much Do We Contribute to this source of Revenue

LAW : http://fightyourtickets.ca/law/

Step-by-Step Guide to Fight Your Ticket: http://fightyourtickets.ca/how-to-fi...arking-ticket/