[rgoel]

no

[Gripster]

My advice? You've done your homework, you know what to pay. Go to the dealership(s) you intend to fax this thing to.

Go out for a test drive and don't commit - give a line about trying other cars first. Call a few days later and speak to the salesman that drove you. Tell him you've done some research, want to do ED and want to pay ED invoice + $x. They can tell you what $x is. Tell him you've called other dealers and best price gets your business. Be willing to go the same day and place a deposit.

Tell him you're not sure about financing. Dealers can be more willing to discount if they think there's a chance of selling you on their financing. You don't have to commit to any financing until a few weeks before actual delivery and can shop for better rates.

This fax method (rizzo method) can work when sales are lagging, but the 335 is a hot commodity right now, so as others have said you will not likely get any responses.

[juuni]

Originally Posted by rgoel

(cross-post)
Would appreciate people's help. I'm planning to purchase a 335i via ED. I have drafted a letter which I intend to email or fax to 5-10 dealers in my vicinity (San Francisco, CA). The letter is below. Would appreciate any and all feedback before I send it out. Thanks in advance.


From: First Last
XXX-XXX-XXXX
email@email.com

To: BMW USA Dealer

Re: Intent to Purchase BMW 335i Coupe

Dear Sir/Madam:

I intend to purchase a new BMW 335i Coupe via BMW’s European Delivery program. I have already determined the configuration and ordering options, and am currently seeking a BMW dealer who is willing to do business with me immediately based on the specification indicated below. I am contacting multiple dealers.

Car configuration European Delivery INVOICE price
335i Base: $34,360
Premium Package (ZPP): $2,230
Sport Package (ZSP): $910
Comfort Access (322): $455
Metallic Paint (A22): $430
Park Distance Control (507): $320
Destination and Handling: $695
Subtotal: $39,400

Option Configuration
Paint – A22 Sparkling Graphite Metallic
Upholstery – LCSW Black Dakota Leather
Interior – 4AD Brushed Aluminum

In addition to the $39,400 European Delivery invoice price, I am willing to pay the following:
Dealer markup: Up to $600
Tax: Actual
Title: Actual
License: Actual
MACO fees: $0
Marketing fees: $0
Other fees: $0

Therefore, the total I am willing to pay is up to $40,000 + tax + title + license.

I am also considering financing up to half of the purchase amount, though final payment terms are not yet decided.

I assure you that I am a serious buyer. Upon your agreement to the terms defined above, I fully intend to purchase the vehicle with minimal time required from the sales agent or sales dealership.

If you are interested in doing business with me, please contact me at the phone number or email address listed above at your earliest convenience.


Thank you for your time and consideration,


First Last

I'm curious about some of your numbers here. I'm checking against this topic http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25892.

Your 335i ED invoice: $34,360 instead of $33,100 as per topic.. or is that because you're considering an automatic? Still, it should be $34,320 then?

Your ZSP: $910, should be $1,455, unless you meant ZCW (cold weather)?

I was considering doing the exact same thing, send my config and 'offer' via email to dealers around here (I'm also from SF). Going for ED as well since I'm flying to Germany for business once in a while.

My big question as well was how much over invoice should I propose? Either that, or just mention invoice price and ask for a best offer and see what comes back.

[yowsa]

Originally Posted by sarafil

A few comments:

Yes, the client has done most of the work here by knowing what he wants.

Actually, he hasn't done all his homework. What he doesn't know is that the price for ED has gone up to $34,740. Make sure you factor that in to your offer--otherwise, the dealer will be only making a $320 profit

from Bimmerfest: http://internetaddictionhelp.com/files/07_3_Cpe.pdf

Cheers

[Ascension]

Originally Posted by rgoel

(cross-post)
Would appreciate people's help. I'm planning to purchase a 335i via ED. I have drafted a letter which I intend to email or fax to 5-10 dealers in my vicinity (San Francisco, CA). The letter is below. Would appreciate any and all feedback before I send it out. Thanks in advance.


From: First Last
XXX-XXX-XXXX
email@email.com

To: BMW USA Dealer

Re: Intent to Purchase BMW 335i Coupe

Dear Sir/Madam:

I intend to purchase a new BMW 335i Coupe via BMW’s European Delivery program. I have already determined the configuration and ordering options, and am currently seeking a BMW dealer who is willing to do business with me immediately based on the specification indicated below. I am contacting multiple dealers.

Car configuration European Delivery INVOICE price
335i Base: $34,360
Premium Package (ZPP): $2,230
Sport Package (ZSP): $910
Comfort Access (322): $455
Metallic Paint (A22): $430
Park Distance Control (507): $320
Destination and Handling: $695
Subtotal: $39,400

Option Configuration
Paint – A22 Sparkling Graphite Metallic
Upholstery – LCSW Black Dakota Leather
Interior – 4AD Brushed Aluminum

In addition to the $39,400 European Delivery invoice price, I am willing to pay the following:
Dealer markup: Up to $600
Tax: Actual
Title: Actual
License: Actual
MACO fees: $0
Marketing fees: $0
Other fees: $0

Therefore, the total I am willing to pay is up to $40,000 + tax + title + license.

I am also considering financing up to half of the purchase amount, though final payment terms are not yet decided.

I assure you that I am a serious buyer. Upon your agreement to the terms defined above, I fully intend to purchase the vehicle with minimal time required from the sales agent or sales dealership.

If you are interested in doing business with me, please contact me at the phone number or email address listed above at your earliest convenience.


Thank you for your time and consideration,


First Last

Dude.............save all the formality BS with that letter and take the time to visit a few dealerships in person Good luck and let me know how it goes

[BK]

I agree -- go in person to a dealership rather than send a formal letter. I understand you want to send a letter because you want them to know you’re a serious buyer, ready to purchase if they give you terms you like, and you don’t want to waste your time. They’ll be able to tell that from your visit. Plus by visiting, you get the benefit of (a) seeing if you like the CA and (b) test driving the car.

For those not in a hurry, I recommend you do as I did, and test drive a ton of cars of different makes and models over the course of weeks. I had a blast and now I know just how much better my Bimmer is than other cars in its class.

[whippersnapper]

Originally Posted by rgoel

I don't understand the comment "I just think it is funny that you are going to pay $40K plus and are worrying about $200 (0.5%)". As I already stated in my posting, I'm willing to pay $600, $1000, or $2000 over invoice. I'm just using this as a negotiating tactic to get a low price. Clearly I'm not "worried" about $200.

Based on your logic, you could end up at $50K going up $200 at a time. I think the question I asked previously still stands: what's the perspective on how much over ED is sufficient to get a deal done? Perhaps the tender is the way to go...

Well I've already recommended the tender.

[rgoel]

juuni,
i believe your numbers are for the 335i sedan. i am purchasing the 335i coupe. the numbers I am using come from here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...5&d=1152216122 (page 2 - wholesale / invoice pricing)

[DDTAN]

See this:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=164062

There was a price increase on the 07 ED Coupe.

[rgoel]

Good catch juuni and DDTAN. Revised numbers are below.

Car configuration European Delivery INVOICE price
335i Base: $34,740
Premium Package (ZPP): $2,230
Sport Package (ZSP): $910
Comfort Access (322): $455
Metallic Paint (A22): $430
Park Distance Control (507): $320
Destination and Handling: $695
Subtotal: $39,780

[gos]

I wouldn't bother listing the invoice price of everything. The dealership knows what the invoice price is already (my CA based our deal on invoice price before I'd even brought it up), so listing each one out yourself looks snotty to me.

You can just say "ED Invoice + $x" as suggested, and see if they take it. Make sure you're clear on what is and isn't within the invoice price.

--gos

[rgoel]

somewhat random question: when buying from an in-state dealer, is the sales tax rate based on the dealer's city or the purchaser's city?

[CALIF65GM]

Originally Posted by rgoel

somewhat random question: when buying from an in-state dealer, is the sales tax rate based on the dealer's city or the purchaser's city?

The buyer's residence or I think more specifically where the car is registered.

Otherwise, everyone in Calif would play the game of buying a car in a city with the lowest state sales tax.

[THE JEDI]

Dude are you joking with these prices...thats the Military sales price...good luck and even if the dealer does give you that price ...you want all invoice....good luck buddy....guy gotta eat know what I mean

[Shawn_speed]

So far there have been 35 posts to this thread and it has been viewed over 500 times. Demographics suggest BMW owners earn $75k or better a year or around $35.00 an hour. If it takes about five minutes to do a post and the average viewer spends three minutes browsing the thread, we have collectively spend about 28 hours here. At $35.00 an hour, that is about $1000 of productivity down the drain, which happens to be the exact amount that if added to the OP’s $600 would make the dealer mark up attractive enough to increase the odds of a deal being made close to 100%.

Alas, efficient market theory dictates that we are getting real value for our time spent here. Could it be that chatting about the process is half as much fun as the process itself? What difference does it make if we are drooling over Automobile magazine Dyno numbers or a Dear John letter to a dealer? Most of us probably end up spending more time at the forums than actually doing 90 mph through a section of twisties in one of these babies.

Car salesmen on the other hand spend time with us so that they can feed their families, not to indulge our fantasies or wet dreams. Wouldn’t our experience be that much more divine if we treated everyone involved in getting our babies to us safe with a high degree of gratitude and respect? Shouldn’t each of us assume that the sales person’s time is worth at least as much as ours if not more?

Look at the amount of time the OP has spent educating himself about the process. Why should he jack himself and half a dozen salesmen around now? $1,500 over ED invoice is generous and $1000 over invoice is a screaming deal. Anywhere between is a good deal. At $1,500 you should expect excellent service and at $1000 you should be happy with a handshake.

Let us know what you end up doing and we’ll gladly spend another $1000 of productivity during our work day virtually negotiating the deal along with you.

Shawn
Phoenix

[RyanE92]

I would also suggest going to various dealers with your proposal. I have done the fax/email attack method and it was successful with my Jeep, but they have dealers all over town, a lot of inventory and are always discounted. This car is different in that it is new, there is a lot of interest, limited inventory and a likely wait while you order. Get to know the dealers and research their service departments. Decide which dealer you want to buy from, tell him you will go to him for service if a deal is worked out and give him a chance to beat the best offer you get from anyone else. He will.

[rgoel]

I find many of these posts about putting food on the table of the car salesman rather humurous. Let's talk some basic economics: the price of a car is based on what the market will bare. What the market will bare is based on the intersection of how much somebody is willing to sell for and how much somebody is willing to pay. Everything else is irrelevant.

If you take a pool of 25 dealers and a pool of 25 buyers, virtually every dealer and every buyer is going to have their own idea of what the minimum acceptable selling price is (for the dealer) and the maximum acceptable purchase price is (for the buyer). Now, this isn't a system that the consumer created. This is a system that the auto dealers created and sustain through opaque and non-fixed pricing policies. And what is MSRP? MSRP is a made up number, especially with a new car. THe manufacturer has an idea of what price the market will bare, but certainly no factual data for that specific car.

So what does this mean? The exercise of completing a transaction is based on matching a buyer with a seller such that acceptable prices are found on both sides. One dealer may decide his time is worth more than another's, and so a higher level of profit is required. One buyer may decide that his time is worth more than another buyer's, so he's willing to pay more for a shorter transaction cycle. To each his own. Nobody is forcing a dealer to do business. The question is simple - what is a minimum price at which one would find a dealer willing to accept. If it's not worth the dealer's time, I'm happy for him to tell me that and send me on my way.

But please come down off of your high horse about what you think a dealer's time is worth, how much food he needs to put on the table for his family, and at what price a buyer should feel happy.

[BK]

rgoel - I think it’s fair to say we all know that. We’re trying to help you here, and maybe some of us are trying to gently reset your expectations a bit. Nearly all of us have bought BMWs recently, so the advice you are getting comes from experience.

In any case, best of luck with your negotiations and in getting your new car! I still say don’t bother with the letter, just visit a few dealerships. Figure out who are the best dealers in your area and go see them. Avoid dealers that everyone complains about online. E-mail the Internet sales department before you go. Good luck!

[THE JEDI]

AMEN BK

[oc24]

I got $600 over ED invoice by the way, but not on a 335i.

[sobriquet]

I second Whippersnapper's suggestion of tender. I'd suggest going into your local dealer to see how far you get.

If you don't like his/her number, tell them you're going to shop around. Worst case scenario, you go back to that dealer with the lowest price you could find from your internet campaign and ask if they'd like to match it.


By the way guys.. chill out. The guy came here for guidance, not a lecture. How many hours does a dealership put in to place that order and support the customer during the ordering process? I can't imagine it's more than 3 hours total. $200/hr sounds like a perfectly reasonable (dare I say it.. excessive?) rate. Even if you cut that figure in half to account for dealer overhead, you're still $25/hr higher than where the gentleman above suggested the average BMW buyer is compensated.

[ward]

so how's the response been rgoel? you've had some time to send the letters out right?