Rr Catted Downpipes

marcel b · 10-29-2009, 02:49 PM

thank you! I will have a look. I will not do a ECU flash, as I just installed the BMW Powerkit. Without flash, how much +HP can I count on you think?

ar design · 10-29-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

Daehler, Belp. Costs are CHF 2800 including install. Daehler uses HJS catalysts which are quite expensive and high quality. You can get their 335i ECU flash as well ( based on Noelle / Evotech ). The car is running perfect. Homologated.

If there is a need/interest for the European guys, I am fairly sure we can build our DPs with HJS cats. We initially looked into HJS, however they would make the downpipes MUCH more expensive, which is why we went with our current choice, which seems to work well on *most* cars without getting crazy on the price.

e.n335 · 10-29-2009, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcel b

thank you! I will have a look. I will not do a ECU flash, as I just installed the BMW Powerkit. Without flash, how much +HP can I count on you think?

I think 10 to 20 hp crank. The point of those DP's is to let the Turbos spool up more easily. I put down 400+ HP / 560NM crank ( 360whp/365wtq ) plus the DP's hp/tq increase. Other mods are HP drop-in filter, Code3/Spearco FMIC, Forge DV's, VK Oilcooler for lower oil-temps. I still have to dyno the car with the new OEM Turbos and those DP's. It feels great.

e.n335 · 10-29-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar design

If there is a need/interest for the European guys, I am fairly sure we can build our DPs with HJS cats. We initially looked into HJS, however they would make the downpipes MUCH more expensive, which is why we went with our current choice, which seems to work well on *most* cars without getting crazy on the price.

Let me test those

. I wonder how much power the optimized ar design airflow will gain compared to the stock DP's, both equipped with the same 200 cell HJS cats.

ToadHollow · 10-29-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

why would you even want catted dp's.. just stick with OEM, not worth it IMO for the minimal gains..

Not so minimal if you think about it ........

e.n335 · 10-29-2009, 03:30 PM

+1

The OEM DP's are a major restriction on a tuned 335i. However, I would upgrade the FMIC first, especially with the BMW Performance upgrade ( Powerkit ) "only" - gains measured. Even catted DP's may not gain that much in power, they are needed for a balanced tune, IMO. Why would you allow more heat and inefficiency as necessary on the N54 and it's turbos ? Completely offtopic now, sorry.

Bomis · 10-29-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar design

Hmmm. What tune?

JB3 map 6 & map 7...

cstavaru · 10-29-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar design

If there is a need/interest for the European guys, I am fairly sure we can build our DPs with HJS cats. We initially looked into HJS, however they would make the downpipes MUCH more expensive, which is why we went with our current choice, which seems to work well on *most* cars without getting crazy on the price.

I am one of the many guys who would like to stick to mostly OEM performance parts, or if not possible, at least with legally and mechanically safe parts in order to keep the car healthy for as long as possible. Many people have their car under warranty and do not want radical changes like removing catalytic converters and receiving engine codes, having to use simulators, etc. Its just messing with the car in a way many people are afraid of.

So I think you would have some success by also selling modified OEM downpipes with HJS cats, and offering an exchange program (similar to Quaife: first pay a bigger amount of money and receive the modified downpipes, then send your own downpipes and receive some of the money back). I don't think AR design downpipes with HJS cats makes sense, but OEM downpipes with HJS cats makes sense, especially with a downpipe exchange program similar to Quaife. There are people in Europe who would pay top dollar for the best setups available but most of the USA tuners are mainly concentrated on the low-price bracket. Take the downpipes for example: the OEM downpipes are double-walled and have flexible coupling, whereas the aftermarkets are just some regular stainless steel pipes. Inacceptable for me. I want to maintain the most amount of BMW-designed parts on my car while only moderately increasing the performance.

cstavaru · 10-29-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

Daehler, Belp. Costs are CHF 2800 including install. Daehler uses HJS catalysts which are quite expensive and high quality. You can get their 335i ECU flash as well ( based on Noelle / Evotech ). The car is running perfect. Homologated.

Does the CHF 2800 price include a new set of downpipes or is it just the price of modifying your own ? In case it does not include the downpipes, the price is very big, do they use "race" cats or "tuning" cats (they have several classes of cats according to their website) ?

marcel b · 10-29-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

I am one of the many guys who would like to stick to mostly OEM performance parts, or if not possible, at least with legally and mechanically safe parts in order to keep the car healthy for as long as possible. Many people have their car under warranty and do not want radical changes like removing catalytic converters and receiving engine codes, having to use simulators, etc. Its just messing with the car in a way many people are afraid of.

So I think you would have some success by also selling modified OEM downpipes with HJS cats, and offering an exchange program (similar to Quaife: first pay a bigger amount of money and receive the modified downpipes, then send your own downpipes and receive some of the money back). I don't think AR design downpipes with HJS cats makes sense, but OEM downpipes with HJS cats makes sense, especially with a downpipe exchange program similar to Quaife. There are people in Europe who would pay top dollar for the best setups available but most of the USA tuners are mainly concentrated on the low-price bracket. Take the downpipes for example: the OEM downpipes are double-walled and have flexible coupling, whereas the aftermarkets are just some regular stainless steel pipes. Inacceptable for me. I want to maintain the most amount of BMW-designed parts on my car while only moderately increasing the performance.

+1 !

dlbrooks18 · 10-29-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToadHollow

Not so minimal if you think about it ........

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

+1

The OEM DP's are a major restriction on a tuned 335i. However, I would upgrade the FMIC first, especially with the BMW Performance upgrade ( Powerkit ) "only" - gains measured. Even catted DP's may not gain that much in power, they are needed for a balanced tune, IMO. Why would you allow more heat and inefficiency as necessary on the N54 and it's turbos ? Completely offtopic now, sorry.

Really?? another advantage with aftermarket catted dp's is the weight savings, yes I know there are some whp gains but not enough to justify the price IMO.. but I too would go with an upgraded FMIC before upgrading my catted dp's to freer flowing catted dp's

e.n335 · 10-29-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Does the CHF 2800 price include a new set of downpipes or is it just the price of modifying your own ? In case it does not include the downpipes, the price is very big, do they use "race" cats or "tuning" cats (they have several classes of cats according to their website) ?

The price is core exchange, I got the core from a new car. The catalysts are 200 cells, whatever this refers to ( race or tuning ).

e.n335 · 10-29-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

Really?? another advantage with aftermarket catted dp's is the weight savings, yes I know there are some whp gains but not enough to justify the price IMO.. but I too would go with an upgraded FMIC before upgrading my catted dp's to freer flowing catted dp's

How does an upgraded oilcooler fit in your way of thinking ?

You can get 360 whp with a PROcede or JB3 and a FMIC, IMO. I paid for the same power ~ 9k US$. Justification ? My preferences.

ar design · 10-29-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

Really?? another advantage with aftermarket catted dp's is the weight savings, yes I know there are some whp gains but not enough to justify the price IMO.. but I too would go with an upgraded FMIC before upgrading my catted dp's to freer flowing catted dp's

Our catted pipes will lose ~7whp over catless. Somewhat marginal, IMO. We have done some testing. On what are you basing the above statement?

FWIW, a LOT of the gains/improvement we are seeing is due to going from a 2 3/8 tube to a 3" tube - not just removing the cats.

cstavaru · 10-30-2009, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar design

Our catted pipes will lose ~7whp over catless. Somewhat marginal, IMO. We have done some testing. On what are you basing the above statement?

Do you use 100-cell metallic cats ? This may explain the better performance, but a lot of cars will get CELs. I think 200-cell cats would eliminated the CELs.

e.n335 · 10-30-2009, 07:23 AM

The 200 cell metallic HJS cats don't look like they would be a big bottleneck in the system - plenty of room for exhaust gases flowing through. Stock catalysts even look like a big bottleneck.

marcel b · 10-30-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

The price is core exchange, I got the core from a new car. The catalysts are 200 cells, whatever this refers to ( race or tuning ).

so I have to buy a set of new OEM downpipes with cats and in addition pay the 2800 CHF? (just to make sure I understand you correctly)

e.n335 · 10-30-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcel b

so I have to buy a set of new OEM downpipes with cats and in addition pay the 2800 CHF? (just to make sure I understand you correctly)

You get a pair of DP's from Daehler and leave yours there.

ar design · 10-30-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

You get a pair of DP's from Daehler and leave yours there.

$2,700?

e.n335 · 10-30-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar design

$2,700?

Yes, including installation.

Kevin@AKMotorwerk · 10-30-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar design

$2,700?

time for you to relocate and make some big money!!

ar design · 10-30-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

Yes, including installation.

I am sure we can do an 3" HJS equipped setup for far less than that.... Is there any interest?

10-29-2009, 02:49 PM	#23
marcel b Lieutenant Colonel 138 Rep 1,898 Posts Drives: F31 340i Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Europe iTrader: (0)	thank you! I will have a look. I will not do a ECU flash, as I just installed the BMW Powerkit. Without flash, how much +HP can I count on you think?
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10-29-2009, 03:30 PM	#28
e.n335 Moderator 295 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	+1 The OEM DP's are a major restriction on a tuned 335i. However, I would upgrade the FMIC first, especially with the BMW Performance upgrade ( Powerkit ) "only" - gains measured. Even catted DP's may not gain that much in power, they are needed for a balanced tune, IMO. Why would you allow more heat and inefficiency as necessary on the N54 and it's turbos ? Completely offtopic now, sorry.
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10-30-2009, 07:23 AM	#38
e.n335 Moderator 295 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	The 200 cell metallic HJS cats don't look like they would be a big bottleneck in the system - plenty of room for exhaust gases flowing through. Stock catalysts even look like a big bottleneck.
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