[xenon]

Not a chip, but I'm over it now you've admitted that there is at least one thing you would change, given the chance.

All e92s have bi-xenon lights and I can see no reason why the coupe was singled out above any others. But there you go.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

1. The msport steering wheel is fatter smaller and nicer to use. Too fat IMO.

You must have freakishly small hands

Originally Posted by 335diesel

2. The msport gearstick is shorter, chunkier and nicer to use. Does it matter with an auto?!

Probably not, but I'd never consider an auto.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

3. The wheels are fatter - which means more grip - and staggered which means more neutral handling. Utter tripe. That's what you are meant to think. Have you ever tested as SE then a M Sport back to back? Thought not. Are you Walter Rohrl? No. You are a marketing victim.

It's not tripe - it's physics. I used to own a 320cd msport which I replaced with an SE. There is absolutely no doubt that a wider tyre means a larger contact patch, which also means more grip. I can tell you from experience that you definitely do not need to be Walter Rohrl to get the tail out on a rear wheel drive car.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

4. The sports seats have whizzy electric side bolsters that hold you in place when you are 'pressing on'. They didn't even touch my sides when I had use of an M Sport. Only handy if you're fat.

Being fat has bugger all to do with the horizontal width of your chest and shoulders. Having said that, my wife is a size 6 'petite' and she can get the bolsters to support her. Exactly how tiny are you?

Originally Posted by 335diesel

5. The black headlining is lovely and cozy. No it isn't. It makes it dark and claustrophobic.

If you are prone to claustrophobia perhaps. But for the vast majority of sane people the big glass windows all around the car let a fair amount of light in and since the car is exactly the same size as an SE claustrophobia doesn't really set in.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

6. The m-sport suspension holds the car flatter while cornering. Again are you Walter Rohrl? No. The SE has sports suspension anyway. The difference in M Sport and this is tiny - I have driven M Sport then SE back to back. I felt no difference at all in how "flat" they both were

I think you need to try again, because you clearly were not paying attention.

msports suspension is only standard on the 335d SE Coupe by the way. You don't get it on a 335 SE saloon.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

None of these things are about posing. They are about enjoying the driving experience. To you maybe, justifying that extra expense to yourself. Expense with no performance benefit. Has an M Sport ever got a better lap time than an SE? Not that I've ever seen.

I didn't say that the msport package made the car quicker. I don't even think that it makes the car look more 'sporty' (whatever that means). What I said is that the msport parts are simply 'nicer'. You also seem oddly hung up on the expense. That's kind of meaningless, because the msports hold value over the SE's right through their life. So you get back a large proportion of the extra cost when you sell the car.

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Which leaves me confused as to why an SE without idrive would be somehow considered 'cooler'? Some like to shout about their car/prowess/whatever. Others go about it more subtly. A bit like lairy blokes that shout about how hard they are. When really the quiet guy next to him is ex SAS. I know which is far cooler.

This is the problem I believe, you seem convinced that the msport package is an attempt to make the car look like something it's not. I find that a really odd concept. From the outside the differences are almost negligable, so why do you assume people buy an msport to show off?

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Had any additional training above the basic test? I've done a full cop course plus IAM - which is very handy for the ROAD driving not some Evo test at a racetrack.

Is this relevant?

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Too many of you talk about the look of stuff - the look of M Sport, the look of whatever wheels. Well sorry but I bought my 335d to drive in and to lug stuff about. I bought it because it's a very good car to drive and not for the rather strange Chris Bangle styling mocked by so many journos. In fact when the saloon came out, I thought it looked just like a Mitsubishi Carisma. The Touring (to me) was much nicer, the Coupe nicer still - if looks were the most important thing, I'd get a Coupe, not drape my car in plastic cosmetic bits, stuff it with electronics I don't need and cover it in pseudo racing "M" badges. And if I wanted M badges it would only be on a proper M car. Just like I wouldn't stick Carrera badges on a VW Beetle. One of the best fast cars I've ever driven was an Evo FQ360 - bloody ugly but so what?!

That's your opinion I guess, but I think it's founded on a false assumption. For the majority of purchasers, the msport package is not an attempt to make the car look better by 'draping it in plastic'.

I certainly don't think it's any less 'cool' of me to specify my car with a nice steering wheel and idrive, which I wanted primarily because it makes using the phone in the car much more pleasurable and because I didn't want sat nav wires all over the place.

[Em135eye]

Xenon - to be honest I'm a bit miffed that a £38k car comes without xenons. A bit like the "cassette player" standard hifi of BMWs not long ago. In fact there used to be a running joke about BMWs coming with NO spec at all when standard.

My dad had a new E20 323i many years ago - EVERYTHING was an extra!!

NFS - not going to answer every question but you and I are both basing our own preferences based on opinion. I'm throwing a few facts in however.

I'll answer a couple - the M Sport E90 I drove about five minutes after I dropped off my SE gripped no harder (I tried damn hard too), was no better balanced and had no handling advantage over my SE whatsoever. If you can honestly tell the difference between a 225 and a 255 rear tyre on the same car then I suggest you apply to be a touring car racer or Lotus test driver because your "talents" are wasted in whatever you do now. I suggest you are actually writing what you THINK should be the case rather than actual experience. However 255 tyres DO look meaner and nicer, especially on an E91 I reckon. Don't forget though - they drag more than narrower rubber - both from road friction and from the air.

If there was any discernible difference in M Sport vs SE then M Sports would be quicker - they aren't. So for someone like me who is concerned about the driving experience blended with a bit of comfort and practicality, an M Sport has no advantage whatsoever and of course there is the grounding on everything because the spoiler is too low. Not handy.

Does a fat steering wheel and black headlining make me go quicker? No it doesn't.

If you like it, which you do, well done. But don't try and fool anyone into thinking M Sports are some kind of keener drivers option. They aren't.

As for size - 5'8" , broad enough to struggle to find clothes at times, 12 stone, no waist (28-30"), just into the "overweight" category for BMI yet under 9% bf. Not exactly a slip of a "man." I DO like the look of the sports seats and was worried I'd like them too much - but they felt the same under my backside as my non sports seats. At at no time have I slid off my seats when cornering hard - and I mean very hard. But again, they LOOK nice. I'm sure they benefit many people but I'm surprised how little they differ from the normal seats - very slightly more padded side and leg bolsters. That's it.

Satnav - yes it's handy but I don't need it. i-drive - I'm sure I'd get used to it but having fiddled with it on a 535d and a 750i, I just don't like it. Probably just not used it enough. IMO cars are too governed by computers anyway. Mine has enough as it is.

The driving quals show I haven't just done a basic test - I've taken it further. Because I like driving and always want to improve. And therefore am likely to be able to make informed choices about what I drive. Unlike someone that does 30k miles a year on a motorway and assumes that makes them a driving god.

A modern BMW is very tech heavy - which is why it's heavy in weight. The 750i I tested was totally OTT - a lovely car but the tech was largely "for the sake of it." BMW work wonders coutering this weight but with many of you wanting a satellite guidance system, an internet shopping channel, wheels the size of a quarry dump truck, an automatic hair dryer, a nail polish remover and a handbag storage box, it's no wonder they just keep on getting heavier and heavier.

So a bunch of opinions, with some facts thrown in.

Different strokes for different folks.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Different strokes for different folks.

I don't agree with any of the other points you've made, but I do agree with this. We are all free to form our own opinions and make our own decisions.

What I would say is this:

1. Your opinion is no more 'factual' than mine.

2. Don't start suggesting that you are a better driver than other people and uniquely placed to determine the relative handling characteristics of various cars.

3. Suggesting that cars with idrive or msport kit are somehow less cool than SE's with no optional extras is just bizarre. You've put forward no cogent argument for this at all.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by NFS

I don't agree with any of the other points you've made, but I do agree with this. We are all free to form our own opinions and make our own decisions.

What I would say is this:

1. Your opinion is no more 'factual' than mine.

2. Don't start suggesting that you are a better driver than other people and uniquely placed to determine the relative handling characteristics of various cars.

3. Suggesting that cars with idrive or msport kit are somehow less cool than SE's with no optional extras is just bizarre. You've put forward no cogent argument for this at all.

Hang on Simon, you were dispatched earlier on in the thread, you can't now come back with your opinions, there meaningless.

Now move along quietly please

[NFS]

Originally Posted by SiKkBaSs

What do you mean by driving experience? Track, ring or simply road? If on the road solely then a lot of these "modifications" are pretty much redundant and end up being cosmetic.

I'm sure I've heard that at the top end, M-Sport differentials are more cosmetic than performance geared.

I just meant those things I listed make driving more pleasurable for me. I'm not suggesting they make the car any quicker.

Cosmetic implies a purely visual change, but the msport kit goes beyond the visual to change the 'feel' of the car.

I do think that a 330i msport would be marginally quicker than a 330i SE on track though due to the suspension modifications and the increased contact patch from the bigger tyres.

[dxb335d]

So, does Viv's 330i SE E90 with 162's have 225 wide at the rear. Im sure this is not the case. Im sure there 255.

[Em135eye]

i-drive and satnav do not come into the "cool" equation. I'm talking M Sport vs SE. If you can find a shred of evidence (please note - this is the FACT bit) that an M Sport is faster than an SE of the same engine and body type, please please find it and show me.

I just don't see why spending £2k++ on something that apparently makes a car look faster but actually makes zero difference is in the slightest bit "cool."

Is a 4" "zorst" on a Nova cool? Is a pointless bonnet vent cool?

Oh and when I bought the Beemer, I believe it was sold to me as a road car not a racing car. However if a track is the only way to "prove" your point then please find me some evidence.

I'm waiting...





I'm still waiting....



And yes, I'm excruciatingly annoying...


But I'm still waiting...


dxb - those 162s are 18" not 17" and wider at the rear so have to have 255s. I'm just making a point but I'd have some 162s like a shot if I could find some. However it's unlikely and the missus (a keen driver too) sees no point...

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

If you can find a shred of evidence (please note - this is the FACT bit) that an M Sport is faster than an SE of the same engine and body type, please please find it and show me.

Has someone stated this FACT then?

[Dr Dave]

I like my 330D M Sport, so glad I got one with idrive

[Steve A]

[pjs]

what a thread....

[beemerbird]

This is all rather amusing.

We're all clear that the E92 335i/d has sports suspension - good.

Right then...........I had an E90 330i M sport. Had over the period of that ownership two 320d SE's as loan cars (sat nav played up......ooh the irony lol), so therefore having driven a 3'er in both SE and M sport guise I would most definitely conclude and confirm that the M sport version DOES handle better overall than the SE equivalent.

Ignore the engines in the above cars referred to, I am specifically talking about handling. The SE being the more comfortable ride also had less grip, more turn in and 'objected' far more to a quick change of direction. The M sport being a harsher ride, more grip, would object far less through directional change and sat 'flatter' on the road. It's obvious really because of the suspension set up.........so on a twisty road, yes the M sport imo would have the advantage.

Love that M sport steering wheel and always will. It's a purely tactile thing for me, simply it suits my hands. Wish the Porsche ones were like them tbh.

[Em135eye]

320d SE does not, AFAIK, have "sports suspension" - 335d (and possibly 330d, 330i and 335i) does have it - it's firmer than standard (as on the 320d SE) but not as firm as M Sport.

It also has a "sports" steering wheel - same diameter as the M Sport, just very slightly thinner.

I have driven an E90 M Sport then an E91 335d SE back to back on the same roads. The difference is this large


>>> . <<<

So unless I see proof, I disagree.

The M Sport and SE E9*s all handle stunningly well (not tried an E93 or those with fully standard suspension). Let's leave it at that.

[Dr Dave]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Love that M sport steering wheel and always will. It's a purely tactile thing for me, simply it suits my hands. Wish the Porsche ones were like them tbh.

I bet you've got lovely French manicured nails!

[pjs]

FFS

Every car mag backs up Helens comments, (335's apart) Sport suspension good but harsh, SE suspension 'comfy'.

Some like it hard, some like it soft. Some people only buy SE's cos they cant afford Sports M or dont care about having people laugh at the crap wheels they usually wear

I like the feedback from my sports suspension and RFT

I take some pleasure from the way my car looks, I wouldnt from an SE (coupe apart)

From a motorway mile munching, zero point, advanced motorist..

Loving this thread

[lesfinnie]

I have the 335d se saloon. I really wanted the M Sport coupe but my wife wanted a four door (more practical) hate to say it but she was right. My car is crimson red, leather, sat nav etc. I love the i drive and the dash does look better with it. I have got used to the front of the se now but I will spray the silver mouldings on the lower grilles black, as per a post on this forum. My previous car was a Citroen C5 2.2 hd exclusive, but the BMW is in a different league as far as luxury, handling etc is concerned, I love it

[Em135eye]

Some like two proper turbos too. Some buy 330ds because they can't afford a 335d...

I like the feedback from my sports suspension as the 335d SE DOES HAVE IT.

I take pleasure in not having a car covered in pointless plastic that serves no purpose. I take pleasure in having a genuinely fast car that is probably the least shouty per bhp and lbs/ft ever made.

From an A road munching, zero point, advanced and Police trained motorist...

Tee hee...

[beemerbird]

Right. As I said the E92 335d/i has sports suspension as standard. NO OTHER SE model does of any engine size APART from those two.

The M sport and SE models are noticeably different in ride and handling in my experience of driving the different BMW's.

[pjs]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

Some like two proper turbos too. Some buy 330ds because they can't afford a 335d...

I like the feedback from my sports suspension as the 335d SE DOES HAVE IT.

I take pleasure in not having a car covered in pointless plastic that serves no purpose. I take pleasure in having a genuinely fast car that is probably the least shouty per bhp and lbs/ft ever made.

From an A road munching, zero point, advanced and Police trained motorist...

Tee hee...

Everyone knows you really wanted a sport, just couldnt get one in your budget

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

I like the feedback from my sports suspension as the 335d SE DOES HAVE IT.

The E91 doesn't have sports suspension.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/pricesand...%3D%3D,00.html

[Em135eye]

Well mine does have it - maybe it's been changed.

pjs - you know you really wanted a 335d, you just couldn't get one in your budget.


I actively looked for SEs - there weren't many around.
I wanted a subtle Q car, not a shouty expensive chaviot...

Many reviews have moaned about the over harsh ride of M Sports.

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews...d-1005387.html

The entry-level SE models are, if anything, even more appealing than the try-hard M-Sport variants and the Touring is cooler again. Only the lack of a manual gearbox might deter real hotshoes.