Vbox Runs with Mr. 5 Intake and DCI

cstavaru · 01-04-2010, 11:55 AM

This testing is done in winter temps, right ? I can bet that in the summer the results will be different...

Blaizon · 01-04-2010, 12:47 PM

Interesting read. Keep it coming.

Mr. 5 · 01-04-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R1000K3

Maybe there is a simple explanation, but I can’t see it right now.
The Mr. 5 intake is much faster to 100 at one occasion than DCI, and reaches this speed 14 meters earlier.
I may be a gear selection issue in this case, but what does it really say?

This is what I brought up in the first post, but I'm thinking that it mostly has to do with my shifting. The only explanation that I can think of is that I shifted after I reached 100 with the Mr. 5 intake and I shifted before I reached 100 with the DCI. I'd love to say that the Mr. 5 intake was much better from 60-100 but if you compare the 70,80,90 times, my intake is slower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

This testing is done in winter temps, right ? I can bet that in the summer the results will be different...

Yes, the tests were done yesterday morning and I agree with you.

R1000K3 · 01-04-2010, 01:42 PM

Hmm, it looks strange. The DCI performs better, but there seems to be some jitter in the test equipment to, which I don’t think depends in your gear selection. It may be caused by GPS tolerances. The 70, 80 and 90 times are not slower in test run 2 with the new intake, but after 100 i falls behind.

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 01-04-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

I wonder if the same can be said about intercoolers making 10-15hp more. Maybe with meth, the difference is much smaller? I can't imagine gaining another 1.5mph or so trap on top of my 122.5mph right now with just adding an intercooler. I am thinking that perhaps less restriction may be the added benefit of a bigger intercooler if not so much for the temp reduction?

I hear a catless rear exhaust can be worth another 10hp?

I always considered the FMIC to be more of a way to get consistent power and less stress on the turbos then actual horsepower gains. I am sure there are a few ponnies there but nothing significant.

Mike

Mr. 5 · 01-04-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I always considered the FMIC to be more of a way to get consistent power and less stress on the turbos then actual horsepower gains. I am sure there are a few ponnies there but nothing significant.

Mike

I agree with you. It seems like all of the mods we do makes the turbos not work as hard. Since they are not working as hard, we can ask more from them (getting more boost).
It's all about giving and taking.

htoudiee · 01-04-2010, 02:04 PM

I agree, but I would trade in stock looks for a tad slower up top.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

This is what I brought up in the first post, but I'm thinking that it mostly has to do with my shifting. The only explanation that I can think of is that I shifted after I reached 100 with the Mr. 5 intake and I shifted before I reached 100 with the DCI. I'd love to say that the Mr. 5 intake was much better from 60-100 but if you compare the 70,80,90 times, my intake is slower.

Yes, the tests were done yesterday morning and I agree with you.

Big Tom · 01-04-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Remember also that running the 60-130 with an auto is going to be quicker than the MT no matter how we look at it.

This is me (Vishnu V3 & MT) vs Enrita (JB3 & Auto) running 60-160 mph with equal mods:

[u2b]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0yG6acXLbzw&hl=sv_SE&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0yG6acXLbzw&hl=sv_SE&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/u2b]

Quite even if you are asking me...

To be honest I do not think your car performs as good as it should.
Approximately 20 meters behind (with even more mods) is a LOT of distance. (4-5 car lenghts)

OpenFlash · 01-04-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Tom

To be honest I do not think your car performs as good as it should.
Approximately 20 meters behind (with even more mods) is a LOT of distance. (4-5 car lenghts)

And isn't one of those "more mods" methanol?

Shiv

Big Tom · 01-04-2010, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

And isn't one of those "more mods" methanol?

Shiv

Both are running meth, but Hotrod is still on both stock IC and exhaust.

OpenFlash · 01-04-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Tom

Both are running meth, but Hotrod is still on both stock IC and exhaust.

Gotcha. To be fair, hotrod does seem to run faster than most other comparables running the same mods.

Shiv

Big Tom · 01-04-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Gotcha. To be fair, hotrod does seem to run faster than most other comparables running the same mods.

Shiv

Yes, I have noticed that.
But 20 meters is just too much.

Mr. 5 · 01-04-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Tom

To be honest I do not think your car performs as good as it should.
Approximately 20 meters behind (with even more mods) is a LOT of distance. (4-5 car lenghts)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Tom

Yes, I have noticed that.
But 20 meters is just too much.

Have you done 60-130 runs with a Vbox?
Maybe you should so we can compare distances.

Don't you think it's also interesting how you are comparing hotrods 2 auto shifts to my single shift?
The next time you run Enrita, you should start at 40mph in 3rd instead of 2nd while he is in 2nd.
Give you an idea of what you are comparing?
I started in 3rd gear for the ease of comparing intakes...not to break any records.

Big Tom · 01-04-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Have you done 60-130 runs with a Vbox?
Maybe you should so we can compare distances.

When/if I install meth we can compare distances, no problem!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Don't you think it's also interesting how you are comparing hotrods 2 auto shifts to my single shift?

2 shifts vs 1 shift in such a short speed range will always mean worse results, whether you have automatic or manual transmission.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I started in 3rd gear for the ease of comparing intakes...not to break any records.

3rd from 60 mph is the optimal gear with MT.
Starting with 2nd will give you an extra shift, and your time/distance will be even worse.

20 meters is no joke.

Mr. 5 · 01-04-2010, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Tom

When/if I install meth we can compare distances, no problem!

2 shifts vs 1 shift in such a short speed range will always mean worse results, whether you have automatic or manual transmission.

3rd from 60 mph is the optimal gear with MT.
Starting with 2nd will give you an extra shift, and your time/distance will be even worse.

20 meters is no joke.

I think you're getting a little clouded for some reason.
Who said that we were starting from 60?
Do you think Hotrod is starting from 60? He's starting from 0.
I just happened to start from 40 with every run.
If starting from 2nd will give you a worse time, then why is Hotrod doing it?
Just think...if he started in 3rd then his times would be even better!

Do your Vbox testing and come back so we can get back on topic.

Big Tom · 01-04-2010, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

I think you're getting a little clouded for some reason.
Who said that we were starting from 60?
Do you think Hotrod is starting from 60? He's starting from 0.
I just happened to start from 40 with every run.
If starting from 2nd will give you a worse time, then why is Hotrod doing it?
Just think...if he started in 3rd then his times would be even better!

Do your Vbox testing and come back so we can get back on topic.

I'm really sorry for offtopic, but unfortunately I can't understand what you are talking about...?

Whats happening before 60 mph is totally irrelevant in this case, cause the Vbox is only measuring from 60-130 mph.
It is the rpm's and gear selection at 60 mph that matters.

As a matter of fact, starting from 0 mph (like Hotrod did) compared with starting from 40 mph (like you did) could actually result in higher AIT's @ 60 mph, which theoretically could make the results even worse in Hotrods case...

As I said before, your car isn't performing as it should. Period.
You are 20 meters behind a car with less modifications, in the speed range of 60-130 mph.

Blk07335i · 01-04-2010, 07:47 PM

Mr. 5 put down over 420 rwhp with these mods (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334093). IMO that is performing as it should, period. Again, he wasn't out to break any records just to compare different intakes.

Mr. 5 · 01-04-2010, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blk07335i

Mr. 5 put down over 420 rwhp with these mods (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334093). IMO that is performing as it should, period. Again, he wasn't out to break any records just to compare different intakes.

Nah, Big Tom is right...My car sucks.

On a serious note, I'll be performing more and more testing with these intakes.

Kelvin1000 · 01-04-2010, 09:34 PM

Inserts comment about overrated dyno and/or no baseline dyno...

BadBoostedBMWM3 · 01-04-2010, 10:39 PM

your ride is moving out very good! I vote to keep your intake...

Big Tom · 01-05-2010, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blk07335i

Mr. 5 put down over 420 rwhp with these mods (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334093). IMO that is performing as it should, period.

Dyno vs road is two very different things.
Where do we use our cars the most?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blk07335i

Again, he wasn't out to break any records just to compare different intakes.

If the idea was to compare the two intakes, why don't perform the whole race on 4th gear? No driver errors involved at all.
Starting in 3rd gear from 40 mph is the way to go with MT if optimal performance is wanted 60-130 mph.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

On a serious note, I'll be performing more and more testing with these intakes.

Nice to hear, good luck!

jippii ensio · 01-05-2010, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Tom

Dyno vs road is two very different things.
Where do we use our cars the most?

It really amazes me that you consider Mr.5 car NOT to perform well on the road. Have a look at his car with Giac stage1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eY0O...layer_embedded

Then you say his car is 20 meters behind of Hotrod's car. Well that is in different circumstances, elevation, temperature etc. And you are comparing to THE BEST time of Hotrod out of dozens of attempts. Moreover, comparing to the Hotrod's JB3 car in general, is really the extreme comparison, since his car is driven grazy and it is extremely fast. As a reminder this was Hotrod's first attempt at 60-130mph:

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotrod182

10.3 sec 60-130 mph upper end acceleration

that you can compare to Mr.5's first 60-130mph attempt in this thread: 9.78s.

If you still feel Mr.5 car is slow, have a look at this table and compare his 9.78s to each of the figures below. He beats (easily) Murcielago, GT-R, M5, M6, Modded M3, F430 tuned 996TT...

9.5 - Porsche 997TT
10.06 - 996TT with ECU flash / 1 shift
10.1 - Ferrari F430
10.3 BMW 135I, JB3 BMS
10.3 - BMW M6, stock, 2 shifts
10.48 - BMW E60 M5, stock, 2 shifts
10.48 - C63 AMG with headers and flash
10.80 - BMW E92 M3, Bolt Ons, DCT, 3 shifts
10.9 - Lamborghini Murcielago
10.97 - Nissan GT-R
11.02 - BMW RDS46 Stroker E92 M3, 6mt, 2-shifts
11.0 - Shelby GT500, stock, 2-shifts
11.7 - Ferrari Challenge Stradale
11.87 -997 GT3 RS
12.1 - Lamborghini Gallardo
12.1 E55 AMG Stock
12.2 - 996tt stock
12.64 - Stock DCT E92 M3
12.9 - Stock 6MT E92 M3 Coupe
13.7 - Stock E46 M3 (freak car) / 1 shift
14.3 - Stock E39 M5 / 1 shift

01-04-2010, 11:55 AM	#23
cstavaru Brigadier General 334 Rep 3,262 Posts Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bucharest, Romania iTrader: (0)	This testing is done in winter temps, right ? I can bet that in the summer the results will be different... __________________ Mods(click): Cobb + RB Turbos \| Aquamist HFS-4 Meth \| Drexler LSD \| Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit \| Custom K&N Apollo Intake \| Wagner Intercooler \| Macht Schnell Downpipes \| BMW Performance Power Kit \| BMW Performance Exhaust \| BMW Performance Short Shifter \| M3 Subframe Bushings \|
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01-04-2010, 12:47 PM	#24
Blaizon Second Lieutenant 16 Rep 223 Posts Drives: 335i Coupe & 335i Sedan Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: North Jersey iTrader: (0)	Interesting read. Keep it coming. __________________ 2008 Sparking Graphite 335i 6MT Coupe - Single Turbo 2007 Montego Blue 335i 6AT Sedan
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01-04-2010, 01:42 PM	#26
R1000K3 Major 60 Rep 1,311 Posts Drives: 335i MT Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Hmm, it looks strange. The DCI performs better, but there seems to be some jitter in the test equipment to, which I don’t think depends in your gear selection. It may be caused by GPS tolerances. The 70, 80 and 90 times are not slower in test run 2 with the new intake, but after 100 i falls behind. Attached Images
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01-04-2010, 07:47 PM	#39
Blk07335i Captain 77 Rep 946 Posts Drives: 2024 G87 M2 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston area iTrader: (4)	Mr. 5 put down over 420 rwhp with these mods (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334093). IMO that is performing as it should, period. Again, he wasn't out to break any records just to compare different intakes.
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01-04-2010, 09:34 PM	#41
Kelvin1000 Major 258 Rep 1,297 Posts Drives: 2019 BMW M2 Competition MT Hoc Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Miami, FL iTrader: (4)	Inserts comment about overrated dyno and/or no baseline dyno...
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01-04-2010, 10:39 PM	#42
BadBoostedBMWM3 Lieutenant 448 Rep 620 Posts Drives: e36m,F80,G80;TRX; 992 TTS; F95 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Louisville, KY iTrader: (0)	your ride is moving out very good! I vote to keep your intake...
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