[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Bimmer335i07

If there would be a firmware update in the future, it will be through the laptop via USB cable to the JB3. No need to ever burn a chip again.

+1

[._.]

This review is not from the perspective of a person who owned a previous version or wants the gimped version. The OP clearly states that in order to get all the features wanted certain extra components would have to be bought.

If we are counting pennies, here is a usb to serial cable for $9.98 that can be used with the Procede:
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch...iteria=AA38410

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Certain elements of your first post clearly portray your bias IMHO, which is reasonable given the circumstances.

Just curious, which elements?

[StartupJunkie]

Hi Folks,

Mike and others - Thanks for your feedback. Based on your comments and considering the target audience may be those who are not upgrading, but going straight into the newer version ... I'll update the original post with the following:
- BMS - Remove ChipBurner (but note that older folks may need this component)
- BMS - add usb cable cost
- Vishnu - Add the USB/Serial cost to Procede (who still buys stuff from Radio Shack?)

Post Readers - last time I'm going to say this ... be forewarned, this is my review and feedback. Not a magazine review.

Thanks for reading!!

Junk

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by StartupJunkie

The Procede incorporates D/A and A/D converters, a 12v power supply, signal conditioning, CAN hardware, Solenoid drivers and some other components I cannot identify yet.

The JB3, on the other hand, has none of that and relies on 5v sensor power and RMS filtering from the DME.

Just a slight correction. The JB3 does have A/D; I beleive 10 Bit.

[Sal G@Camber-Toe]

I'd love to see how the rest of this test goes. Lots of good Vishnu/JB3 comparisons

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by r45t4m4n

This review is not from the perspective of a person who owned a previous version or wants the gimped version. The OP clearly states that in order to get all the features wanted certain extra components would have to be bought.

If we are counting pennies, here is a usb to serial cable for $9.98 that can be used with the Procede:
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/SKUSearch...iteria=AA38410

With the BT the OP now has the ability to view freeze frame data and code descriptions, manage diagnostics in all ~20 modules instead of just the ECU, and do it all via the OBDII port with his tune removed. With the add-on downpipe fix OP could keep it installed with the tune out in case he wanted to go in for service with the downpipes on and tune removed. The BT and V3 downpipe fix give him much more flexibility and functionality than he has now in those regards. Worth noting in an independent review IMHO.

If it were a biased review one might carve their criteria such that you only need exactly what one tune offers. So if the criteria included "view freeze frame data", "delete airbag code", or "update tune without a laptop or computer knowledge", then currently no amount of money would allow him to do those things with the PROcede.

Mike

[hun77777]

as shiv pointed out, u forgot to add speed deliminator to JB which will add more money...

[gerardm]

wow u dont need chips anymore so knock off 50 bucks and add 80 back for speed delimitter. man these straight up facts are so bias. give me a break.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by hun77777

as shiv pointed out, u forgot to add speed deliminator to JB which will add more money...

If we're including the deliminters are we also including the cost of replacing your BWM warranty?

Mike

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by hun77777

as shiv pointed out, u forgot to add speed deliminator to JB which will add more money...

I don't think he forgot. I'm guessing he just doesn't need to go above his 135mph factory speed limit. For some people, it's important because they can't even do a complete 4th gear dyno pull without running into the speed limiter. For others, not so much.

Shiv

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

If we're including the deliminters are we also including the cost of replacing your BWM warranty?

IMO, honesty should prevail and anyone running a tune should consider themselves in that situation anyway.

[yandy]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I don't think he forgot. I'm guessing he just doesn't need to go above his 135mph factory speed limit. For some people, it's important because they can't even do a complete 4th gear dyno pull without running into the speed limiter. For others, not so much.

Shiv

I don't have a speed delimit and I can go 155mph, maxing out 4th gear pretty easily. unless that's only 09+ models.. dunno.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by yandyr

I don't have a speed delimit and I can go 155mph, maxing out 4th gear pretty easily. unless that's only 09+ models.. dunno.

Junk's car is a non-sport package so he doesn't have your 155mph limiter.

Shiv

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by scalbert

Just curious, which elements?

semantics scalbert.

[yandy]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Junk's car is a non-sport package so he doesn't have your 155mph limiter.

Shiv

Oh, gotcha.. I have sigs turned off, so may have missed it..

Thanks

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by ianthegreat

semantics scalbert.

I assume you are refering to the language used? If so, the question still stands.

I ask this as I feel accusations are made without a true understanding of the relevant data or the reason for the perception.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I assume you are refering to the language used? If so, the question still stands.

I ask this as I feel accusations are made without a true understanding of the relevant data or the reason for the perception.

I cited several examples in the post.

Mike

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I cited several examples in the post.

I just read back over and granted, I could have missed something. But I did not see any citation listed. Please clarify if possible.

[iBoost]

this "review" is already ruined.

i dont really care though; subscribed for the rest of you're reviews.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I just read back over and granted, I could have missed something. But I did not see any citation listed. Please clarify if possible.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Certain elements of your first post clearly portray your bias IMHO, which is reasonable given the circumstances. I am not discounting your review but clearly it is not an "independent" review.

With 2.0 on firmware updates include firmware and mapping and are uploaded via the USB cable. The burner itself is obsolete but backwards compatible for those customers who don't have a laptop and/or prefer that method for software updates. As mentioned most PROcede customers are required to purchase the radio shack USB cable which retails for around $35 as well. Most customers will never purchase catless downpipes and thus don't require the downpipe fix. The BT cable includes functionality well above and beyond simple code reading/deleting. The JB3 has proven to be significantly less expensive with regards to hardware upgrades. These are all elements that one might have included in an independent review that were missing from your first post, which is why I added them.

Also contributing to my feeling of OPs bias is that I'm aware from previous exchanges he is a personal friend/beta tester for Shiv, even lending Shiv his car for automatic mapping and potential track runs. He was the first customer to test the Vishnu meth kit, has been quick to insult the JB3 previously, etc. The numbers he quoted for the approximate construction of the boards exactly match numbers Adrian and Shiv have thrown around in the past.. The JB3 unit itself also appears to be the same one Shiv is using in his testing and is clearly used yet he quoted new purchase prices. Also is strangely fixated on the obsolete chip burner for $50 yet ignores that someone who bought the very first JB3 two years ago could update it to the newest hardware and software for $65.

Mike

[StartupJunkie]

Hi Mike,

To comment on the items you listed:
- Yes, I tested a beta version of the Vishnu meth kit ... i'm not sure if I was the first
- Yes, I lent Vishnu my car to get the automatic tuning done ... that was for purely selfish reason, I wanted v4 done quickly for automatics and I was out of the country for a few weeks on business.
- Board construction costs is simple and anyone can do this themselves ... read the part number, google it and you'll usually get one of the electronics houses pitching you prices

On the comments about the past, I can see this is going in the wrong direction with you. So I ask what is it about the content of this post, that is wrong. I corrected the pricing of the chip burner in the original post after you and other forum posters stated that it is not required.

I noticed how civil you were in the JB3/Procede-snooping thread, so it appears you've turned the corner there.

Any chance that I may have done the same and wanted to provide general feedback? After my research, I may choose to switch tuning vendors again ... it may surprise you what I used first. Let me just say that cost is not really an issue for me ... the pursuit of what is "the best for me" is what i'm doing.

Post Readers - more to come, but I'm kind of busy at work right now. Hope to collect the notes and post in a little bit.

Thanks,

Junk