[BGM]

Originally Posted by doughboy

What do you mean? They didn't give it to you with the bill??

I wouldn't pay until I saw the full report, what proof do you have of the work?

WTF are these people doing?

I haven't paid since the 1st attempt.. i have the first two KDS reports, but didn't think a collection of papers for the other three would really be that helpful. Can get them if needed though.

Before i had it done the very first time the car was snaking about under hard acceleration, the very first KDS sorted this out perfectly.. however this didn't help the wheel position.

The past 4 attempts have been neither here nor there, so no, now the car does not behave differently if coasting or accelerating. In fact, it is very smooth and drives very true... that is so long as you hold the wheel slightly off centre!

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by zaytar

Not because I felt it was needed more so because it was recommended (potholes, wheels off plenty of times last year for RFT ditch etc).

The wheels can come off a million times and you won't ever need the car aligning.

At worst you'd have a wheel wobble due to dirt trapped in the wheel face, but that won't effect the alignment.

Originally Posted by BGM

I haven't paid since the 1st attempt

Good stuff. Ask to witness the adjustment and show you how they hold the wheel at centre while they adjust the track road ends.

A common bodge is to only adjust one side, i.e. if both front wheels need 0.5deg toe, they will adjust one wheel by 1deg and the the wheels will have the right 'total' toe but the rack will be offset to the new centre line.

[toxicnerve]

Guys,

When you lot get alignment checked on a Hunter machine do the techs measure your ride height and load the car appropriately?

I was talking to a chap down at a tyre place near me and he said it wasn't required but my understanding is that it is most definitely required!!

Also, when setting the wheel straight, is it ok to do visually from the cabin or does the rack itself need to be inspected (I assume by removing the under-tray).

What have your experiences been with regards to the above items when having a 4-wheel Hunter alignment?

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Guys,

When you lot get alignment checked on a Hunter machine do the techs measure your ride height and load the car appropriately?

I was talking to a chap down at a tyre place near me and he said it wasn't required but my understanding is that it is most definitely required!!

Also, when setting the wheel straight, is it ok to do visually from the cabin or does the rack itself need to be inspected (I assume by removing the under-tray).

What have your experiences been with regards to the above items when having a 4-wheel Hunter alignment?

There is no loading requirement for either KDS or Hunter, they just put rated tyre pressures in and measure the static ride height at defined points and enter it into the machine.

They have different figures for M sport, active steering etc etc which are given out at static unloaded height.

The angles need to be set at unladen height only, so even if you lower the car they still set it at whatever the unladen height is.

Re the wheel, the steering wheel should be visually set and/or restrained in the centre position before checking/adjusting. There's is no need to check the rack. A quick check of turns lock to lock in either direction will comfirm you are in the centre if there is any doubt.

If they don't restrain it it will easily move when trying to adjust track rod ends.

[Jeff123]

Hi

My previous car, a SAAB 9-3 did this - it nearly drove me mad. The front tryes looked OK, but were old(ish) so I changed them and just put some £50 budget tyres on. This transformed the car and solved the problem.

Jeff

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by doughboy

There is no loading requirement for either KDS or Hunter, they put rated tyre pressures in and measure the static ride height at defined points and enter it into the machine.

This is the bit he was telling was not required. He said there's no need to enter the ride heights unless they look wrong or the readings shown on the Hunter machine appear to be well out. I in fact watched the tech skip right by that screen.

Opinions on that?

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

This is the bit he was telling was not required. He said there's no need to enter the ride heights unless they look wrong or the readings shown on the Hunter machine appear to be well out. I in fact watched the tech skip right by that screen.

Opinions on that?

I suppose he is right, if it looks OK and is a standard car.

When I had my hunter alignment and BMW KDS done they did enter actual heights as they did vary by a few mm side to side, but as long as they are within a range, then its OK and the figures are just for information.

[BGM]

Originally Posted by Jeff123

Hi

My previous car, a SAAB 9-3 did this - it nearly drove me mad. The front tryes looked OK, but were old(ish) so I changed them and just put some £50 budget tyres on. This transformed the car and solved the problem.

Jeff

i have had three new tyres within the last month, and a 4th new tyre about 2 months ago (along with a new alloy)..

i'm going to call them (not had time today), and book it in for another go.

I will request to witness the alignment, and witness the 'setting' of the wheel.. it sounds like the best plan.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by BGM

I will request to witness the alignment, and witness the 'setting' of the wheel.. it sounds like the best plan.

Did a quick search, print this off ...

http://www.familycar.com/alignment.h...ering%20Center

It seems like there are 2 issues with your car:

1. The alignment is out - somewhere, this is why the car does not go straight ahead when you let go of the wheel.
2. The steering wheel has not been set centrally when they set (or didn't set!) the alignment in 1 above.

The natural geometry of front wheel axii means the the wheels should be self centering when on a flat road, so even with the track rods disconnected the front wheels should straighten up on their own (more so with a RWD car where front wheel geometry is not compromised by traction duties)

Assuming a healthy front setup, if yours veers off on a level road then the rears must not have the thrust axis set in the centre of the vehicle, so the rear 'steers' and the fronts are trying to 'cancel' out that rear steer effect.

As said, try driving on the 'wrong' side of a road to see if it goes the other way due to road camber, but I doubt it.

If they can't sort it, get ovet to a hunter specialist and see them do it properly for £40.

[BGM]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Did a quick search, print this off ...

http://www.familycar.com/alignment.h...ering%20Center

ah yes i have actually skim read that a few weeks back, i will make sure i do so again!

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by doughboy

The natural geometry of front wheel axii means the the wheels should be self centering when on a flat road, so even with the track rods disconnected the front wheels should straighten up on their own (more so with a RWD car where front wheel geometry is not compromised by traction duties)

No, not quite. I've had a track rod fall off (unwind off the steering rack) and I can assure you the loose wheel didn't straighten up. The self-centring effect (castor) is not strong enough to hold the wheel straight against the various forces acting on a loose wheel on a normal road surface at anything above a crawl. More than likely it will splay out, like a drunken giraffe.

Like skating on ice ...

Eliminate the possible effect of road camber before you go chasing other causes. Takes minutes to do. Then move on to other things.

D.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

No, not quite. I've had a track rod fall off (unwind off the steering rack) and I can assure you the loose wheel didn't straighten up.

Yes, I should have added 'in theory'.... especially with negative camber, the wheel will try to get to zero camber, i.e. turn outwards.

But, the idea being that the outwards tendancy of each wheel should balance that from the other wheel (via the rack) resulting in a steady straight ahead (barring road camber and bumps etc)

[dxb335d]

Dave is yours RHD or LHD !?

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by doughboy

But, the idea being that the outwards tendancy of each wheel should balance that from the other wheel (via the rack) resulting in a steady straight ahead (barring road camber and bumps etc)

Yes tied together it helps - as I found out. Wider wheels make that balancing act more sensitive.

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Dave is yours RHD or LHD !?

My E92 is LHD.

D.

[E92westy]

Originally Posted by doughboy

<snip>

+1, any slight natural drift to the left - with no hands on the wheel - is to do with camber, but you will need a fair bit of camber for the wheel to actually 'move' to the left.

My wheel is spot on centre and the car goes dead straight on a level road., it needs a fair camber to start running left.

The car should go dead straight when the wheel is straight ahead.

<snip>

I'm going to agree with this, as I've just tried it on the way home tonight.
'07 E92 MSport 38,000 miles, on Bridgestone RFT's, pressures checked at the weekend and around 7mm tread all round.
My wheel is central and in the straight ahead position on a flat road, it runs straight.
On more cambered roads it does gently drift to the left, but only gently.
It certainly sounds like something's wrong and needs sorting.
Keep at 'em and good luck!

[BGM]

ok,

so iv just had a very long chat with a 'Steve' at barons, and although clearly trying to fob me off with "we've gone above and boyond our usual" bullshit, seems generally quite amenable.

After explaining (in rather explicit detail) the issues, I am now awaiting a phone call for when they can fit me in.. I think this is going to be the last effort because we are both getting extremely pissed off with one another, but I am going to demand to witness the alignment because as far as i know they are not lining up the wheel correctly to start with..

this is the last time i trust dealers with my car

*sigh*

[BGM]

and the result is...

they are refusing to do *anything* without charging me further. nice.

car won't be going back to fucking barons, need and oil and front pad change soon so i'll chat to birds about my issue when i go and see them..

angry!

[doughboy]

Birds don't have an alignment machine, but they use somewhere local with a KDS machine, could be another dealers I suppose, but you'll be fine if Birds are dealing with you.

Otherwise check out www.alignmycar.co.uk for a pukka alignment specialist.

[acerboo]

had mine kds a while ago and the car came back with the steering wheel central, (wasnt out to start with) last week had the wheel off to be recovered, now its laying to the left when the car is going in a straight line! had the wheel off again today and it cant go on the column in any other position, spoke to the local dealer and he is mystified as am i! just bonkers.

[spandeli]

Had many issues with my wheel alignment, see my previous posts.

Then i had a KDS and all the handling problems were solved, apart from the fact that the steering wheel has not been set centrally, but was laying a bit to the left, as other guys in this post posted.

Don't know if i did the right thing or not, before reading this post, took it yesterday to my neighbour who is doing a Hunter alignment and he corrected it. He said he didnt touch any settings of my alignment though....

[acerboo]

just had the car kds again and its totally fine but the steering wheel is still canted to the left, what i dont understand is why it wasnt like it before, dealer says all is fine nothing bent etc. one thing has come to light the bloody bridgstone tyres are knackerd on the shoulders AGAIN and now the fronts are as well! its not the suspension or the tyre pressures just the crap rubber. has anyone got to the bottom of the steering wheel problem

[Jules59]

Originally Posted by acerboo

had mine kds a while ago and the car came back with the steering wheel central, (wasnt out to start with) last week had the wheel off to be recovered, now its laying to the left when the car is going in a straight line! had the wheel off again today and it cant go on the column in any other position, spoke to the local dealer and he is mystified as am i! just bonkers.

Just curious, why did you have your steering wheel removed in order for the car to be recovered ?