[Glowin]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

My meth kit which plugs into my lighter socket and is movable wherever I decide to put it was particularly easy to remove.

So was the nitrous system. No wires, hoses, etc had to be cut. Just unplug and remove.

OK, wow, amazing data analysis, first of all!

On the meth and nitrous system installs, can you expand on the tank locations and hose and wire routing? So you don't have wires and hoses running from your trunk (with the hole drilled in the trunk floor) to the engine bay? If you do, you're pulling all that out for the dealer visit?

I don't understand how your meth system just plugs into your lighter... Where are all the wires from there going?

[itsbrokeagain]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Nope, engine purrs like a kitten. And it runs very srong bone stock right now. One of the reasons I wanted to do this was to make sure that car still ran perfectly fine in baseline trim. And thank goodness, it does. In that video, the trans EGS showed overrev, DME showed no engine over rev. Probably doesn't trigger till a higher rpm. Scares me enough to not want to run at those HP levels again till a steptronic solution is found. I'm not too sure if just letting of the dryshot during the shift is going to cure this problem. But you have to remember, if the car can run all day at 7000 rpm, it probably has enough safety margin to handle a momentary 8000 rpm spike. I mean these are the same guys that designed 6 cylinder M engines to run at 8300 rpm almost a decade ago. Our N54s are pretty stout with a forged crank shaft, etc.

I have a feeling the trans is not switching to the next gear fast enough, causing your spike in rpm. If someone could come out with a trans program that would shorten time between shifts and change the converter lockup properties, then you you be able to get up and into the next gear with less wear and tear on the clutch packs. The problem is drivability goes down, as it 'bangs' upshifts.

As with AMGs, they have done their own software and changed the valvebodies in the trans to increase line pressure and shifting procedures in 3 modes: comfort, sport, and manual. The difference with those over BMW is that BMWs shift properties don't change. Sure you can put it in DS or steptronic mode and paddle-shift it, but it still shifts at the same speed.

On a high horsepower AMG (both the 55s and the 63s, and even the massive V12 biturbo SL65), when you put it in manual mode, if you shift it early and your foot halfway down, it shifts more aggressively than C or S mode, but nowhere near the lightning fast shifts when your foot is planted to the floor. I had the chance to roadtest an SL65, and let me tell you, when you got the hammer down and you upshift, even If its not at redline, it cuts the ignition (the engine 'burps') and shifts into the next gear so hard it barks the tires.

I want to say AMG trans are almost like a mix between a regular auto and the old SMG style gearboxes with the shifting button on the console turned up to level 5. If someone could modify the properties of the N54s AT, I would bet that 1/4 mile times would go down by a good bit.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Glowin

OK, wow, amazing data analysis, first of all!

On the meth and nitrous system installs, can you expand on the tank locations and hose and wire routing? So you don't have wires and hoses running from your trunk (with the hole drilled in the trunk floor) to the engine bay? If you do, you're pulling all that out for the dealer visit?

I don't understand how your meth system just plugs into your lighter... Where are all the wires from there going?

The biggest pain is just lowering the kick panel and routing the wires/hoses. Then the entry plate in the doorway. Other than that the hoses/wires just came out by the drives seat belt area on the floor with enough slack to keep the nitrous bottle strapped in to the L/R seat belt anchor (I could actually reach back to open and close the valve when driving). I could locate the meth pump/tank assembly behind my seat, or if I wanted more leg room I sometimes would place it behind the passenger seat. And sometimes if I had the R/F seat out, I would strap it to the seat bolts with the supplied anchors/rubber strap. So it was a mobile system. As far as looks? Well when it was behind me, I had a nice dark blanket covering both the nitrous bottle and meth tank, so someone looking inside wouldn't even notice anything unusual. The power came from my lighter socket, so that was the only thing noticeable, but it just looked like I had a phone/accessory plugged in. I just liked the fact that I could see my tank level, reach back and feel the line pulsating to check activation levels, etc, and could unplug the unit any time I wanted. The nitrous arming power came off the meth pump power wire. So if there wasn't at least 7psi of boost, you couldn't even get power to the nitrous set up. Just a tiny bit of safety margin, insuring nitrous isn't activated at idle, or when letting off the throttle, etc. So the only thing passing through the firewall for the nitrous is the hose, and the one power wire, (after going through my pushbutton). The nitrous solenoid was grounded to a simple eyelet in the engine compartment as was the meth solenoid. So to remove the whole system was simple as unconnecting and pulling the wires/hoses through the firewall. After that was done, my nitrous/meth system were merely parts sitting in the passenger compartment that I unplugged from the lighter and removed like a bunch of groceries!

Originally Posted by Matt@Camber-Toe

I have a feeling the trans is not switching to the next gear fast enough, causing your spike in rpm. If someone could come out with a trans program that would shorten time between shifts and change the converter lockup properties, then you you be able to get up and into the next gear with less wear and tear on the clutch packs. The problem is drivability goes down, as it 'bangs' upshifts.

As with AMGs, they have done their own software and changed the valvebodies in the trans to increase line pressure and shifting procedures in 3 modes: comfort, sport, and manual. The difference with those over BMW is that BMWs shift properties don't change. Sure you can put it in DS or steptronic mode and paddle-shift it, but it still shifts at the same speed.

On a high horsepower AMG (both the 55s and the 63s, and even the massive V12 biturbo SL65), when you put it in manual mode, if you shift it early and your foot halfway down, it shifts more aggressively than C or S mode, but nowhere near the lightning fast shifts when your foot is planted to the floor. I had the chance to roadtest an SL65, and let me tell you, when you got the hammer down and you upshift, even If its not at redline, it cuts the ignition (the engine 'burps') and shifts into the next gear so hard it barks the tires.

I want to say AMG trans are almost like a mix between a regular auto and the old SMG style gearboxes with the shifting button on the console turned up to level 5. If someone could modify the properties of the N54s AT, I would bet that 1/4 mile times would go down by a good bit.

When I watch my video, it seems the shift is complete for some while, but the rpms are flaring. So not sure if the torque converter is flaring, torque converter clutch is overloaded, or trans clutch packs are slipping. Once it is determined which component it is, then a solution can be strived for. I mean if it is the torque converter clutch slipping, then increasing line pressure to the clutch packs, may not solve anything. I guess eventually, I will just need to cruise in 4th gear around 5000 rpm or so, and do multiiple WOT runs with the dryshot on, and see if there is any slippage at all. If events happen without even following a shift, I would say the trans is simply overloaded, triggering the failsafe.

[bhf335]

nice job man..

[HPFREAK]

From what I see in your data the DP's really are not making a big difference. A lot of the change in mph and ET from Stock to Catless could be simply traction and the way you shifted. The changes in ET and mph are not major enough to warrant DP's for a daily driver non tracked car looking for every once of power you can get. Better off with meth and a good FMIC plus intake with the tune. Put some good tires on top on that and you are good to go and still smog legal. If it is sound you are after then the DP's will help you there of course. But from most dynos and track results Ihave seen the DP's are not the best place to spend your money. Avg price for DP's is around 600 and you can get a really good meth system for less than that and be able to run the race maps where you still cant with the DP's alone. I am not to sure, maybe someone can change my mind on th DP's.

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by Brad@PSI MOTORS

From what I see in your data the DP's really are not making a big difference. A lot of the change in mph and ET from Stock to Catless could be simply traction and the way you shifted. The changes in ET and mph are not major enough to warrant DP's for a daily driver non tracked car looking for every once of power you can get. Better off with meth and a good FMIC plus intake with the tune. Put some good tires on top on that and you are good to go and still smog legal. If it is sound you are after then the DP's will help you there of course. But from most dynos and track results Ihave seen the DP's are not the best place to spend your money. Avg price for DP's is around 600 and you can get a really good meth system for less than that and be able to run the race maps where you still cant with the DP's alone. I am not to sure, maybe someone can change my mind on th DP's.

The downpipes give less lag/better throttle response, and definitely a better growl. But for all out HP/Traps, the return on my setup was not spectacular at all. I would say that I immediately gained maybe .6-1mph at the most it seems. But then a week and a half later I was below my pre-downpipe traps. Thought the car might have adapted to something. That was one of the main reasons to take them off. To see if I would regain the speed. Didn't happen. So at least I am pretty sure they don't hurt performance.

The cost of the DPs are not so much the issue as the hassle of removing them. Even though the gains may be small, they all add up in the final equation. So if you are looking for leading performance numbers, I would say its probably a good idea to have them. If not, there are other mods that give the most major gain for the money. (Tune/Meth/Nitrous)

As another test, I may try installing them on my sedan. I will try and document the performance increase that is realized on a whole different vehicle. Also remember, the performance gains with DPs at stock boost levels was insignificant in my tests.

[ianthegreat]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The downpipes give less lag/better throttle response, and definitely a better growl. But for all out HP/Traps, the return on my setup was not spectacular at all. I would say that I immediately gained maybe .6-1mph at the most it seems. But then a week and a half later I was below my pre-downpipe traps. Thought the car might have adapted to something. That was one of the main reasons to take them off. To see if I would regain the speed. Didn't happen. So at least I am pretty sure they don't hurt performance.

The cost of the DPs are not so much the issue as the hassle of removing them. Even though the gains may be small, they all add up in the final equation. So if you are looking for leading performance numbers, I would say its probably a good idea to have them. If not, there are other mods that give the most major gain for the money. (Tune/Meth/Nitrous)

As another test, I may try installing them on my sedan. I will try and document the performance increase that is realized on a whole different vehicle. Also remember, the performance gains with DPs at stock boost levels was insignificant in my tests.

I had minimal gains from downpipes also. The biggest improvement was in response/turbo spool.

Unless you are building a racecar, might not be worth the hassle.



Great analysis though.

[HPFREAK]

Ya after everything I have seen you confirmed what I thought which is they are the most PIA mod to do with the least gain and for most, the issue with warranty work and removing them everytime for things like the damn HPFP's that fail left and right, it is just not a mod I would reccommend to most that are wanting the best bang for the buck and easy mods to remove just in case. IF you are going to be a track monster then do them, if not it is not worth it and spend your money on the meth and FMIC along with the tune.

Originally Posted by hotrod182

The downpipes give less lag/better throttle response, and definitely a better growl. But for all out HP/Traps, the return on my setup was not spectacular at all. I would say that I immediately gained maybe .6-1mph at the most it seems. But then a week and a half later I was below my pre-downpipe traps. Thought the car might have adapted to something. That was one of the main reasons to take them off. To see if I would regain the speed. Didn't happen. So at least I am pretty sure they don't hurt performance.

The cost of the DPs are not so much the issue as the hassle of removing them. Even though the gains may be small, they all add up in the final equation. So if you are looking for leading performance numbers, I would say its probably a good idea to have them. If not, there are other mods that give the most major gain for the money. (Tune/Meth/Nitrous)

As another test, I may try installing them on my sedan. I will try and document the performance increase that is realized on a whole different vehicle. Also remember, the performance gains with DPs at stock boost levels was insignificant in my tests.

[JBiddy]

great write up as always!!! always really helpful information
i have a quick question.. came upon this video of yours on youtube..
http://www.youtube.com/user/hotrod18...66/K9eAk3vjHjg
what ended up happening with the turbos?
thank you
jonathan

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by JBiddy

great write up as always!!! always really helpful information
i have a quick question.. came upon this video of yours on youtube..
http://www.youtube.com/user/hotrod18...66/K9eAk3vjHjg
what ended up happening with the turbos?
thank you
jonathan

Absolutely nothing. A friend of mine bought that car it is running perfectly. He loves it, and feels the car is running very strong. I think the turbo whine is indicative of some advanced deterioration perhaps, but I don't think anyone has really quantified it, because they really haven't been failiing very often. The amazing thing is my coupe turbos are nice and tight and quiet. I think I can attribute that to being religious about warming up the car before going full throttle. For me, that often means idling the car for 15 minutes before I take off and going full throttle right away.

Also, FYI. Turbos are pretty cheap now. I believe the warranty prices on them are only $700 each, with around a $100 core price! No wonder people have been picking up used turbos for cheap.

[JBiddy]

Originally Posted by hotrod182

Absolutely nothing. A friend of mine bought that car it is running perfectly. He loves it, and feels the car is running very strong. I think the turbo whine is indicative of some advanced deterioration perhaps, but I don't think anyone has really quantified it, because they really haven't been failiing very often. The amazing thing is my coupe turbos are nice and tight and quiet. I think I can attribute that to being religious about warming up the car before going full throttle. For me, that often means idling the car for 15 minutes before I take off and going full throttle right away.

Also, FYI. Turbos are pretty cheap now. I believe the warranty prices on them are only $700 each, with around a $100 core price! No wonder people have been picking up used turbos for cheap.

thank you so much bro!!!!

[Enjoiyourlife]

wow. great read. with an LSD, you may be able to hook high 10's . that would be amazing.

[slowSwede]

Interesting stuff, especially reading about the downpipes that a lot of people are cheering for.

Good info!

[hotrod182]

Originally Posted by slowSwede

Interesting stuff, especially reading about the downpipes that a lot of people are cheering for.

Good info!

Will be very interesting to see what happens when I install them on the black sedan that I have been doing some 1/4 mile testing on.

So far though, you can see the performance of my sedan is right there with my coupe. 118mph with just tune/DCI/100 octane. Full weight.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=381493