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Motortrend:LF-A versus GT-R
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05-10-2010, 05:51 PM | #24 |
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I love everything about the LF-A:
-the engine -the sound -the design -front engine -rear wheel drive Probably one of the most desirerable supercars at the moment. Even though the GT-R is extremly fast, I do not consider it as a supercar. |
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05-10-2010, 05:55 PM | #25 |
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Why not, is it not SUPER expensive enough. I thought it was interesting that a lot of people said the Z06 was not a supercar, but thought the an F360/F430 is, even though the Z06 is faster around the 'Ring.
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05-10-2010, 06:01 PM | #26 | |
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05-10-2010, 06:05 PM | #27 | |
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Did I say there weren't other factors than straightline performance? BTW, the ZR1 and Viper are very nice too.
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05-10-2010, 06:06 PM | #28 |
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Ok, in fact for me, LF-A, GT-R, 911, R8, Gallardo, F430, 458 Italia, MP4-12C are just sportcars. But supercars are SLR McLaren, Carrera GT, Enzo, MC12, Murcielago. Veyron is a hypercar.
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05-10-2010, 07:41 PM | #30 |
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Wait a secong I could have this car or a ferrari 599 GTO taht does everything better. r better yeat I can have abn LF-A or a 458 Itilia and a 911 Turbo. HMMMMMM Thats a tough choice. I know it is limited but that doesnt matter to me. A single clutch automated sequential gearbox for almost 400k NO THANKS. Once again Lexus ruins the gearbox in this car just like EVERY other car they sell. No manual or dual clutch in an IS-F give me a break. I know the Lambo has a single clutch unti as well but the G is a TON less money and performs better in most catergories. I also know the Murchi. has a single unit but you can still get a real trasmission in both of those car being a 6 speed manual transmission. I will never understand the LF-A. I Know they are all sold but this proves nothing to me.
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05-10-2010, 08:26 PM | #31 | |
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You could make a civic faster than a GTR. Would you consider the civic a supercar? |
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05-10-2010, 11:44 PM | #32 | |
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If a stock civic could burn around the 'ring under 7:50 and break 12 in quarter it would be a supercar.
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05-10-2010, 11:54 PM | #33 | |
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LFA will end up being just another the Jag XJ220, in supercar history. Nice car, but nothing special. It definitiely won't have the history of the Mclaren F1.
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It will be a car classic 20 years from now. Last edited by M3_WC; 05-11-2010 at 12:02 AM.. |
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05-11-2010, 12:50 AM | #35 | |
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none of the car in this class is made out of carbon fiber nor make a sound remotely close to the lfa. these more like entry level supercar GT-R, 911, R8, Gallardo, F430, 458 Italia, MP4-12C |
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05-11-2010, 12:57 AM | #36 | |
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![]() Quit talking about something you so obviously know nothing about. ![]() |
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05-11-2010, 02:19 AM | #37 | ||
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You said those other factors are "excuses." Ie, they're not legitimate factors. We are not debating the niceness of the ZR1 or Viper. However, their very existence pretty much renders your argument obsolete. Quote:
At least I'm going by the impressions of those who have actually driven it. |
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05-11-2010, 02:58 AM | #38 | |||
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I said flat out that the LFA is nice but not $400k nice. The fact that they're comparing it against an $80k car is proof enough. Even if you dismiss the comparison because of fit and finish and other subjective parameters there are tons of supercars that have much more polish that would eat the LFA for lunch for less money. Would you honestly take an LFA over the faster Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera (or Lamborghini Murcielago)? How about the cheaper but faster 458, Turbo S, or GT2 RS? The reality is the LFA is putting down 997.2 Turbo numbers not Murcielago ones. Those are good numbers but the $400K car market is crowded with faster cars. If people like the noise, exclusivity, or whatever that's great but not very compelling IMO. Quote:
If the Lexus had Lambo specs then polish, noise, exclusivity would be the differentiating factors. But those are secondary issues IMO<again>. Quote:
That doesn't even make sense. You're critical of my opinion because I haven't driven one yet you can't see your double standard by expressing an opinion when you haven't driven it either. Get it?
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05-11-2010, 03:03 AM | #39 |
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These kind of threads are frustrating and kind of stupid. I don't know why I even participate in them.
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05-11-2010, 03:11 AM | #40 |
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Because its fun. Come on. It's like all the sports debates that can never be answered. Let's all get worked up about nothing. No one here will ever own an LF-A (which is kind of the reason the car annoys me-I thought it was suppose to be an attainable vehicle).
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05-11-2010, 03:27 AM | #41 |
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It's only fun when intelligent discussion is generated, not some of the BS being typed in here. "The LF-A will be a failure in 20 years based on my opinion as a GT-R fanboy" or "It's a boutique car that old fat guys will store in their garage and will never be driven", isn't intelligent at all. Why not discuss the cars performance at 24 Hours Nuburgring, or at ADAC-Westfalenfahrt versus the Gallardo and R8?
I don't see very much intelligent debate in this thread. People comparing the LF-A to the Jaguar XJ220 (two totally different cars), and claiming it will be an immediate failure based on some hypothesis based in the realm of ... nothing. Very immature, and pointless. Don't let my opinion stop you from participating though. By all means, continue.
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05-11-2010, 03:46 AM | #42 | |
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Nice and condescending. There's nothing stupid about criticizing it because of price and general availability (hence the boutique comment). It is being compared to a GTR so those are valid points. And if this is soooooo beneath you by all means, leave.
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05-11-2010, 04:47 AM | #43 | ||||||
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But I'll go one step further. I will use the very same article that you cited as "proof" that the GT-R isn't worth the money against you. Read from the Motor Trend article: "Only 500 are being made, and of those, only 150 will be available in the U.S., which means LFA will challenge exotics like the Carrera GT, SLR, Enzo, and Veyron in the realm of rarity. [See, it's not a 458/Gallardo competitor.] Remove the collectors and speculators from the equation, and the LFA is merely another absurdly fast, glorious sounding supercar, right? Oh, if it were only that simple. Armchair experts, looking hard at our images and videos, will dissect and ultimately denounce the LFA for not being invincible. Sure, if a GT-R can catch it off guard, so can a Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche 911 Turbo, Corvette ZR-1, and Dodge Viper -- all for a lot less money. But citing times, trap speeds, or dollar signs as enough reason to elevate any one of those over the LFA is missing the point entirely. The LFA belongs in the elite supercar club as much as any choice Porsche, Ferrari, or Corvette. It looks and sounds like nothing else on the road, and is as fiendishly fast as it is complicated and indulgent -- the very embodiment of the country and motoring culture from which it comes. As for what its worth on the street? You need only hear the intoxicating bark of that V-10 touching 9000 rpm to know the answer. Every penny." Game. Set. Match. And yes, comparisons with the XJ220 are absurd. That car fell far short of sales goals when buyers felt they weren't getting the engine that was promised (even if the resulting engine was every bit as powerful). Meanwhile, Lexus have apparently sold out the planned 500 unit production run and are delivering a CF monocoque when years ago only aluminum was in the picture. In the end, you can only say it's not worth it...to you. But don't presume that your definition of "value" is universally objective and applies to everyone. |
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05-11-2010, 04:52 AM | #44 |
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997GT3:
Please refute the following as patently false or absurd: "Let's forget the price for a minute because you could argue that, at certain levels of the marketplace, people don't even look at the price. They just want something that's rare and special. This car is rare and it's rare and very, very special. I don't want to get bogged down in 'Ooh, it's 6 times more than a GT-R.' That's simplistic. Yes, it's not 6 times the car that the GT-R is. Of course it isn't. Nothing is 6 times the car that the GT-R is. A Veyron certainly isn't 12 times the car that the GT-R is. It's not possible to be that. We've deliberately avoided any talk of the 2011 Lexus LFA's list price of $375,000 until now, because having spent the day (well, four hours) in this car, the price doesn't strike us as especially relevant. That'll sound absurd to many of you, but this car isn't a normal retail proposition, not even in the abnormal reality of Planet Supercar. Just 500 will be made, some 150 of which will go to the United States and only 70 of which are destined for Europe (18 of them to the U.K.). Perhaps the biggest compliment we can pay this Lexus is to say that it doesn't feel like a bad value. Chances are, most people will never see one, and you shouldn't underestimate the power of this." --Chris Harris, Evo Magazine Shane O'Donoghue, contributor to Yahoo autos, Car Enthusiast, and Performance Car Mag: "Comparisons to similar performing machines are pointless, as we believe that potential buyers have the means to buy whichever they prefer, regardless of logic or value for money. ...if you can spend £300,000 or so on a supercar it's likely that you may have one of each rather than seeing them as competitors." 5th Gear: "While those [performance] figures are on a par with many supercars, such as the forthcoming Ferrari 458 Italia and McLaren MP4-12C, the Lexus costs a sizable chunk more and, in effect, competes with the likes of the Pagani Zonda and Ferrari 599 GTB - although in that stratosphere we're not so sure buyers look at things that logically." |
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