[NFS]

Originally Posted by ss134

IMO BMW are at a crossroads -i drove a friends Z4 35i yesterday and it is noticably softer than the old Z4. I believe they are now focusing on marketing and sales at the expense of driving dynamics and driver focused cars.

I agree.

[toxicnerve]

I can't comment on how "other" BMWs feel to drive but my E92 feels pretty sorted if a little weighty (not the steering, I mean the car itself).

BMW, like any other company, are in it to make money. Which is the bigger market? The car enthusiast who enjoys his car and knows about differing suspension setups or your average "Everyman" who buys their car to get from A-B and to show off that he's got a bit of dosh?

Sadly it's a case of "It's the economy stupid"

Not sure how many of you will have read my comment in another thread here about how the 335d, while great, loses a little of the driver involvement I enjoy. Anyway, I think when I do move on from the E92 I will be getting something very middle of the road as my daily hack (i.e. a Focus, which still handles well and offers decent driving dynamics) and then maybe a little 2.0 150-200bhp kit car or something for the weekend when I want to go for a blat. I might even consider something a bit jap/rice (ITR or a Supra maybe?).

[jhbodle]

Originally Posted by ss134

IMO BMW are at a crossroads -i drove a friends Z4 35i yesterday and it is noticably softer than the old Z4. I believe they are now focusing on marketing and sales at the expense of driving dynamics and driver focused cars.

If BMW are not careful their hard built reputation of being a sporty manufacturer producing great handling cars will never recover from recent models - even the new 5 series has suffered in the handling department compared to the previous generation although in most other areas i am sure it is a better car.

If BMW continue in this way i can see a lot of long term BMW enthusiasts looking elsewhere for their future cars although BMW probably won't care as for every customer that wants dynamics and handling as a priority there will be 10 new customers who just want image and comfort and would probably not even care if the car was front wheel drive.

You've hit the nail on the head I think - there's rumours of front wheel drive BMWs coming out, the M division is turning its hand to 4x4s and turbos...I don't like where the company is going. Still, I said that about the X5 and the 1 series so what do I know...

[ss134]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

I can't comment on how "other" BMWs feel to drive but my E92 feels pretty sorted if a little weighty (not the steering, I mean the car itself).

BMW, like any other company, are in it to make money. Which is the bigger market? The car enthusiast who enjoys his car and knows about differing suspension setups or your average "Everyman" who buys their car to get from A-B and to show off that he's got a bit of dosh?

Sadly it's a case of "It's the economy stupid"

Not sure how many of you will have read my comment in another thread here about how the 335d, while great, loses a little of the driver involvement I enjoy. Anyway, I think when I do move on from the E92 I will be getting something very middle of the road as my daily hack (i.e. a Focus, which still handles well and offers decent driving dynamics) and then maybe a little 2.0 150-200bhp kit car or something for the weekend when I want to go for a blat. I might even consider something a bit jap/rice (ITR or a Supra maybe?).

I totally agree with you, however what makes a BMW an aspirational vehicle is their blend of luxury and driving dynamics - BMW have built their reputation on fine handling cars that also offer the driver comfort and luxury -this reputation means that BMW are seen as a more sporting brand than their main competitors and this appeals to both enthusiasts and posers who want to drive/ be seen in a 'dynamic' car

BMW win almost all of the car group tests due to their superior dynamics and balance - they may lose on space, practicality, interior fit and finish etc but they always car for car perform better on the road than their competitors. A Mercedes is more luxurious, an Audi offers similar luxury to BMW with contemporary design and their quattro system, Lexus are extremely reliable etc etc...........if BMW lose that 'ultimate driving machine' tag then will their cars still be as aspirational?

IMO if BMW's lose that driver focus they will just be another premium brand fighting for sales in a very competetive market with no stand out selling point - would any of us here be driving a BMW if for example Lexus were the benchmark for handling and performance and were regarded as a much more focused and sporting car than a BMW for less cash coupled with bomb proof reliabiliy and after sales care?

There are more sporting cars than a BMW and there are more luxurious cars but no other mainstream manufacturer combines both as well as BMW but you can only survive for so long on reputation alone and once that reputation is gone would all of the people who as you said want 'to show people they have a bit of dosh' still want a BMW?

[toxicnerve]

I totally agree but as long as they are a business entity and times are tough, BMW will continue to dilute their USP in order to garner more sales.

I'm left wondering if the E46 may drive better than the E92? I've never driven one so can't compare.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by jhbodle

the M division is turning its hand to 4x4s and turbos...I don't like where the company is going.

M division do try and fight their own corner, but they are forced to come up with abominations like the X6M etc and to use turbos because that's what BMW marketing told them to do.

I remember reading about the huge internal rows when M were forced to make convertible M3's. M saw it as a compromise in weight and handling, but BMW marketing know that poseurs want drop tops and will pay top dollar for them. So M have to make the compromised car, heavier, bendier, poorer handling, higher cost.

Same with Audi RS having to make the RS4 convertible, just to suit the marketing people.


A few years ago BMW could sell on the back on 'perfect balance' and the 'ultimate driving machine', but now it's all about 'joy' and 'efficiency'.

TBH society is changing too, we (car nuts) are in an even smaller minority these day, often scorned by other 'safety concious' road users. Just liking cars or performance is akin to commiting dangerous driving, just talking about it. In the 80's My dad used to love his Mk2 Cavalier SRI - a dream company car that people used to ask 'cor mister what'll she do?. Now he (like millions more) just wants reliability, comfort and economy.

Driver involvement, handling, feel and acceleration (forget top speed) are totally irrelivant to those ever growing millions.

Manufacturers see this too and I think the top end performance models will keep the driver focus, but they will be forced into ever more niche (i.e. expensive) variants.

Like M3, Lexus ISF, C63 AMG etc etc..

They know that enthusiasts will pay and they will make us pay too.