[purpl3ish]

Originally Posted by jferrell

below invoice without some sortof credit back isn't possible nor does it make any sense. For lack of a drawn of explination invoice is cost for the most part on a BMW, this isn't Honda where "Everything sells below invoice!" We also don't have guys in polyester suits throwing money in the air on commercials to attract customers. What you're asking for is the same as me asking you to take $400 for $500 from you. And that 6k in "kick backs" is BS, why would BMW pay us to sell our cars? This is a product you want to buy not have to buy. I don't mind selling to people 500 over invoice if it's quick and I don't have to spent the hour and a half delivering the car, plus the hour test driving and paper work, etc..

Cars can sell under invoice if they choose to..I'm sorry I don't believe for one second if they sell a car lets say $500 under invoice..that they're "losing money."

[jferrell]

Originally Posted by ChOy BoY

Cars can sell under invoice if they choose to..I'm sorry I don't believe for one second if they sell a car lets say $500 under invoice..that they're "losing money."

I can say I don't believe in taxes but that doesnt make them not real. Unless a dealership has specific money back(i.e. auto credit, diesel credit, build out cash) below invoice is below cost. Even going by your logic, how much money do you think $500 below invoice would be making if it wasn't loosing money? Not very many people out there are willing to make less then $500 bucks on a $35000 dollar investment. They have to pay the client advisor with that money, expenses, if you pay cash they have to pay the finance manager. If you love the product pay for it, if not move on to Infiniti or someone willing to deal with a clientel that just wants to pay as little profit as possible.

[jferrell]

Originally Posted by ChOy BoY

Cars can sell under invoice if they choose to..I'm sorry I don't believe for one second if they sell a car lets say $500 under invoice..that they're "losing money."

And just to poke holes some more, you could sell me your house below what you paid for it if you choose to but you'd be choosing to be an idiot too.

[purpl3ish]

Originally Posted by jferrell

I can say I don't believe in taxes but that doesnt make them not real. Unless a dealership has specific money back(i.e. auto credit, diesel credit, build out cash) below invoice is below cost. Even going by your logic, how much money do you think $500 below invoice would be making if it wasn't loosing money? Not very many people out there are willing to make less then $500 bucks on a $35000 dollar investment. They have to pay the client advisor with that money, expenses, if you pay cash they have to pay the finance manager. If you love the product pay for it, if not move on to Infiniti or someone willing to deal with a clientel that just wants to pay as little profit as possible.

I've been with Infiniti for a while and you can bash all you want I personally don't care. I know what you're saying and how invoice is supposed to mean what YOU guys pay for it; but if every dealer regardless of whether it's Honda or BMW or Mercedes or Infiniti, wouldn't be able to sell many cars below invoice if they were all truly losing money. I'm sure there are other ways that dealers make their money in the deals and you don't have to admit that they do or don't.

[Ali.K_BMW]

Originally Posted by jferrell

below invoice without some sortof credit back isn't possible nor does it make any sense. To avoid a drawn out explaination, invoice is cost for the most part on a BMW, this isn't Honda where "Everything sells below invoice!" We also don't have guys in polyester suits throwing money in the air on commercials to attract customers. What you're asking for is the same as me asking you to take $400 for $500 from you. And that 6k in "kick backs" is BS, why would BMW pay us to sell cars, that's a dealerships job? This is a product you want to buy not have to buy. I don't mind selling to people 500 over invoice if it's quick and I don't have to spent the hour and a half delivering the car, plus the hour test driving and paper work, etc..

AGREED!

I don't understand some people. We have to make a living too.

Thread is FAIL!

[jferrell]

Originally Posted by ChOy BoY

I've been with Infiniti for a while and you can bash all you want I personally don't care. I know what you're saying and how invoice is supposed to mean what YOU guys pay for it; but if every dealer regardless of whether it's Honda or BMW or Mercedes or Infiniti, wouldn't be able to sell many cars below invoice if they were all truly losing money. I'm sure there are other ways that dealers make their money in the deals and you don't have to admit that they do or don't.

I think as consumers(I buy cars too) we like to think they do to keep from feeling so cheap about going to the guy with the lowest price. I'll have customers come test drive, go over options I follow up for weeks and spend cumulatively a few hours then they want to price shop me over and over again. "Oh theres a dealership a few states over that'll beat you by $500". Really? Think of it this way Best Buy can make money on your financing, on your service and on your extended warranty purchase but if you buy none of those they make it on there product. We are the same way and a customer who is usually wanting a car "below invoice" is a loss leader. They are also the same ones that think a dealership "is snubbing their nose at them" because they won't accept a low ball offer on a car you have to order. I'm all for helping guys on the forums get a good deal but I'll never sell at or below invoice it just doesn't make sense for me or the dealership.


BTW aside from BMW's Center Employee lease if you buy a car as an employee from any of the 32 franchises my dealership is associated with you pay $500 over cost, at BMW that's $500 over invoice.

[purpl3ish]

Originally Posted by trackfiend

AGREED!

I don't understand some people. We have to make a living too.

Thread is FAIL!

Originally Posted by jferrell

I think as consumers(I buy cars too) we like to think they do to keep from feeling so cheap about going to the guy with the lowest price. I'll have customers come test drive, go over options I follow up for weeks and spend cumulatively a few hours then they want to price shop me over and over again. "Oh theres a dealership a few states over that'll beat you by $500". Really? Think of it this way Best Buy can make money on your financing, on your service and on your extended warranty purchase but if you buy none of those they make it on there product. We are the same way and a customer who is usually wanting a car "below invoice" is a loss leader. They are also the same ones that think a dealership "is snubbing their nose at them" because they won't accept a low ball offer on a car you have to order. I'm all for helping guys on the forums get a good deal but I'll never sell at or below invoice it just doesn't make sense for me or the dealership.

I'm 100% not saying that you guys don't deserve commission for what you do; believe me I respect the fact that you guys do try hard and work hard for your money. All I'm saying is that I do believe that even if a car was sold for invoice that money is still being made on the deal; somehow someway somewhere. You guys know better than me obviously and if this was true I don't expect me to be told.

And if I were you; I probably wouldn't sell a car for that low either if I can find someone else willing to pay $500 more than me hypothetically. But I was only looking for an invoice deal because I have a decent connect with the sales manager at the dealership and I'm just trying to bargain down; that's all.

[Ali.K_BMW]

Originally Posted by ChOy BoY

I'm 100% not saying that you guys don't deserve commission for what you do; believe me I respect the fact that you guys do try hard and work hard for your money. All I'm saying is that I do believe that even if a car was sold for invoice that money is still being made on the deal; somehow someway somewhere. You guys know better than me obviously and if this was true I don't expect me to be told.

And if I were you; I probably wouldn't sell a car for that low either if I can find someone else willing to pay $500 more than me hypothetically. But I was only looking for an invoice deal because I have a decent connect with the sales manager at the dealership and I'm just trying to bargain down; that's all.

I'll simply state that if a car is sold at invoice or even 1000 over, the Client Advisor does not get a piece of it. (after detail mats etc is deducted) We get flats, as in, if no commission is made, we get a flat (100-200$)from the Dealership, not BMW. Please don't state that somehow we make money from somewhere if you truly don't know how a car's gross is broken down. Thanks.

[Outlaw 06]

I completely agree with what’s being said here about businesses needing to cover their expenses and make a profit too. However, there’s often a big difference between “published invoice” and actual “dealer cost” on many vehicles.

The last vehicle I bought “below invoice” was my wife’s 2006 Acura MDX:
The published base MSRP was $40,620 and the invoice (including destination) was $36,672
– dealer holdback of 3% of base MSRP ($1,219)
– factory to dealer incentive ($2,500)
= $32,953 actual dealer cost, which was $3,700 BELOW the car’s published invoice.

I ended up paying $34,147 for it (on Labor Day 2006), which left the dealer with a profit of about $1,200 plus whatever $$$ he made on the car that I didn’t know about.

And that was when people still had money to burn (before the Great Depression of 2007 started)...

My guess is that at the end of BMW’s 2010 model year and the end of E9x production, there are some very good deals to be had in this economy…

[HPIA4v2]

Wow, things get heated here

With all due respects to both sides, get the best deal you can get and walk away happy you did the best you could do for that day.

I am not the best negotiator but always have fun and come away happy, just like yesterday I went to get some 4th of July fireworks at Indian reservation where people hagle to get the best deal, at the end I have some great deals and not so great deals. The lesson I am showing my two boys who were with me, in life you win some you loose some; if you can't take that you are in for big disappointment anywhere you go.

[bavarianboar]

If people get at or below invoice, no Ca at a dealership is idiot to make that sale at a loss.

The real question is, are there absolutely NO people who get at or below invoice? Search on this forum says otherwise. How is that business/dealership surviving?

TJDiCandido as always has a great point.

Also, I am not sure how many people are aware of the incentive that a dealership gets based on their National Consumer Satisfaction Ratings.From another BMW forum I learnt its about $1000 per car sold.

This topic will soon become a beaten to death one, like the 328i vs 335i. I'd move on, and get a reasonable deal, if not the very best.

[purpl3ish]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

If people get at or below invoice, no Ca at a dealership is idiot to make that sale at a loss.

The real question is, are there absolutely NO people who get at or below invoice? Search on this forum says otherwise. How is that business/dealership surviving?

TJDiCandido as always has a great point.

Also, I am not sure how many people are aware of the incentive that a dealership gets based on their National Consumer Satisfaction Ratings.From another BMW forum I learnt its about $1000 per car sold.

This topic will soon become a beaten to death one, like the 328i vs 335i. I'd move on, and get a reasonable deal, if not the very best.

I'm trying =)...anyone get the MF's/residuals for July?!

[jferrell]

Originally Posted by TJDiCandido

I completely agree with what’s being said here about businesses needing to cover their expenses and make a profit too. However, there’s often a big difference between “published invoice” and actual “dealer cost” on many vehicles.

The last vehicle I bought “below invoice” was my wife’s 2006 Acura MDX:
The published base MSRP was $40,620 and the invoice (including destination) was $36,672
– dealer holdback of 3% of base MSRP ($1,219)
– factory to dealer incentive ($2,500)
= $32,953 actual dealer cost, which was $3,700 BELOW the car’s published invoice.

I ended up paying $34,147 for it (on Labor Day 2006), which left the dealer with a profit of about $1,200 plus whatever $$$ he made on the car that I didn’t know about.

And that was when people still had money to burn (before the Great Depression of 2007 started)...

My guess is that at the end of BMW’s 2010 model year and the end of E9x production, there are some very good deals to be had in this economy…

Point well made, on an Acura. BMW does not have holdback, reference the all knowing edmunds if you don't believe me.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incent...ack/index.html

That being said, a 2011 328i has no cash back from BMW which is the car in question currently. As for "bad economy" that's just a way for people to justify ridiculas offers. You order this product, if you don't order it we don't pay for it. I can see if the car on the lot is the exact build you want go for it get 500 over invoice if there are no incentives. However, come to any dealership and ask them to order a car for you and make "relatively" no money(notice that's relative to the cost of the car) and you're gonna get some crazy looks. ChOy BoY the MF may be ****PM ME(Your dealership may mark this up some), residual is 60% @15k for 36 months. bavarianboar it's not 1,000 trust me, and it's only for I think 100% survey if that. Lets do simple math.

MSRP of 328i ZPP ZVP 205 494
Invoice 35,545
Sale Price 35,545
Front End Profit 0
BMW only allows 1% markup on rate so $355 profit(if you don't b****)
Did you pay the 139 for the mats? No? take that out of the profit
$216 Profit
You're gracious enough to give them 100%(100% is key, no 4 out of 5) survey so maybe a few hundred(I don't know the exact amount) added in
$516 Profit
Ok now pay the flat to the CA and the Finance Manager
$216 Profit
Now pay the lights, equipment, building lease, sales managers, pretty much everything else with that $216

Get a grip people you feel good because you think $500 over invoice is "fair" but you have no concept of running a dealership and obviously have never sold cars. A CA may find an unethical way to sell to you at invoice just to make the flat or a bonus if he's struggling but he's biting the hand that feeds him, the dealership makes nothing and he walks away with something. Now that I'm off my soapbox, good luck it's a great car to buy and you'll be happy with it I know.

[Outlaw 06]

Originally Posted by jferrell

Point well made, on an Acura. BMW does not have holdback, reference the all knowing edmunds if you don't believe me...

I believe you.

FYI, the best I've ever done on a new SPECIAL ORDER BMW was $1,500 over invoice, which I thought was quite fair (but there were no incentives going at the time either)...

[Ali.K_BMW]

Originally Posted by ChOy BoY

I'm trying =)...anyone get the MF's/residuals for July?!

you will not see them.

[Ali.K_BMW]

Originally Posted by jferrell

Point well made, on an Acura. BMW does not have holdback, reference the all knowing edmunds if you don't believe me.

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/incent...ack/index.html

That being said, a 2011 328i has no cash back from BMW which is the car in question currently. As for "bad economy" that's just a way for people to justify ridiculas offers. You order this product, if you don't order it we don't pay for it. I can see if the car on the lot is the exact build you want go for it get 500 over invoice if there are no incentives. However, come to any dealership and ask them to order a car for you and make "relatively" no money(notice that's relative to the cost of the car) and you're gonna get some crazy looks. ChOy BoY .00190(Your dealership may mark this up some), residual is 60% @15k for 36 months. bavarianboar it's not 1,000 trust me, and it's only for I think 100% survey if that. Lets do simple math.

MSRP of 328i ZPP ZVP 205 494
Invoice 35,545
Sale Price 35,545
Front End Profit 0
BMW only allows 1% markup on rate so $355 profit(if you don't b****)
Did you pay the 139 for the mats? No? take that out of the profit
$216 Profit
You're gracious enough to give them 100%(100% is key, no 4 out of 5) survey so maybe a few hundred(I don't know the exact amount) added in
$516 Profit
Ok now pay the flat to the CA and the Finance Manager
$216 Profit
Now pay the lights, equipment, building lease, sales managers, pretty much everything else with that $216

Get a grip people you feel good because you think $500 over invoice is "fair" but you have no concept of running a dealership and obviously have never sold cars. A CA may find an unethical way to sell to you at invoice just to make the flat or a bonus if he's struggling but he's biting the hand that feeds him, the dealership makes nothing and he walks away with something. Now that I'm off my soapbox, good luck it's a great car to buy and you'll be happy with it I know.

[IlChengis]

Originally Posted by Geekyguru

Looking to buy a 2010 or 2011 335i at or below invoice.

If you'll be buying after moving to Alabama (and are willing to pick the car up in Georgia), PM me and I'll put you in touch with the man that will sell you your Bimmer right @ invoice without MACO fee (mats and filled tank included, of course).

All I did was emailing back and forth and only went to the dealer when it was time to pick up my baby. He was even able to ensure she was going to be built in Germany.

Very good guy and a good friend, he treats online referral sales as an extra sale at the end of the month.

Good luck,

-Walter

[jferrell]

Originally Posted by TJDiCandido

I believe you.

FYI, the best I've ever done on a new BMW was $1,500 over invoice, which I thought was quite fair (but there were no incentives going at the time either)...

That's pretty fair, and trackfiend I'm down for the beer. I posted the residual somewhere in that rant

[purpl3ish]

Originally Posted by trackfiend

you will not see them.

i'll see them in a few days then thanks for ur help bro.

[mikeokimster]

Originally Posted by Treppiede

If you'll be buying after moving to Alabama (and are willing to pick the car up in Georgia), PM me and I'll put you in touch with the man that will sell you your Bimmer right @ invoice without MACO fee (mats and filled tank included, of course).

All I did was emailing back and forth and only went to the dealer when it was time to pick up my baby. He was even able to ensure she was going to be built in Germany.

Very good guy and a good friend, he treats online referral sales as an extra sale at the end of the month.

Good luck,

-Walter

Sorry to threa jack...

Hey Walter, can you PM me the dealer you dealt with?

Thanks man!

Check out leasecompare.com's forum in a few days for the MF and residuals.

[JDBorges187]

The dealers make money if they reach certain goals, and if you don't can the surveys. So in my experience, the dealership would rather lose a sale then to get a bad survey back. The problem is those skinny deals you know +/- $500. Always tend to think you made the most money, are the ones with most grief (trades, scratch on bumper at delivery, complaints, bad surveys, etc) And they typically think the dealer is ripping them off. You want a good deal? Tip your CA put him in your corner.

sooo hawaii

[SamS]

Hi all,

Bought plenty of new cars, but not a BMW (yet). So, the consensus is that if you are ordering your car, and know exactly what you want (not jerking around with test drives, etc.) $500 over invoice is an unreasonable expectation?