[toxicnerve]

/facepalm.

What a nightmare, I'd be seriously annoyed but I'm not really sure what you could get the dealer to agree to.

Them buying the car off you for book price would pretty good. Repair to as new standard is all well and good but I am sure if it were me it'd leave a niggle in the back of my mind.

Ask the service manager to throw his wife in with the loan of his F10?

[zedman]

Dude do this. All workshop entrances are covered by CCTV I assume. Ask to see the tape of your car going in UNDAMAGED showing it never left until you came to inspect it. This way you'll know it was a reasonably low speed shunt and you can deal with it calmly. If they can't provide this I'd take legal advice because I wouldn't want to discuss options with a dishonest dealer. I'm not suggesting however that the dealer is anything but honest but if I was you I'd make sure.

If I was you either way id ask for a replacement car, nothing more expensive but something comparable. I wouldn't want it back after suspensionish damage.

[leetennis]

Good call cctv...
The yellowish marks on the bumper/wing isnt the paint on the ramps is it? Not the first time ive heard about things running into/falling off ramps

[BlackCat]

Thanks all, some good thoughts here. I'm not one for ranting and raving, but the alacrity with which they tried to explain the accident to me this evening did seem a little strange. They claimed that a car from the cleaning bay reversed into the front wing of mine at low speed as mine was moving towards the exit for a road test.

The damage is slightly strange too: the mark on the wheel was relatively small, and there was very little impact damage on the body shell - it looks more like a gradual shove (e.g. driving at slow speed, but pretty persistently, into a ramp) than an impact.

I'm not an inexperienced negotiator so have explained how distressed, angry and unhappy I was this evening; tomorrow will be time to clarify my position and ask what they intend to do about it. As mentioned before the two issues are the severity of the damage and how this will affect the car itself (and I am worried about potential issues beyond what I can see) and the effect on my ability to resell the car at a proper market price.

The former can be dealt with via independent inspection, which I think I have a right to expect would be done at the dealer's expense. The latter is more of an issue: if their position is that it will not affect resale value then I do think that this is a naive position in the extreme and the obvious point to make is that they should then buy the car from me at a price which is sensible and goes some way to recognising their fault. As a decent BMW customer (check out the new sig!) in general, and of this dealer in particular, I think that would be fair resolution, particularly if I am willing to trade in the value against a similar new or second-hand car.

Given that there are no comparable cars in the UK AUC pool at the moment I suspect this means either going for a late 2008 M3 DCT Convertible for around £45K and doing some negotiation (but unfortunately there are none in this dealer's network) or else looking at an identically spec'ed new car as the solution which, according to the BMW configurator, is £51,235 and would undoubtedly leave me significantly out of pocket.

Further thoughts about this approach appreciated -- I'm seeing the Service Manager tomorrow morning but I suspect this is unlikely to be resolved then.

BC

[leetennis]

BMW UK may help however this is a dealer issue, the dealers dont like bmw uk involved if they can avoid it.

[Carrera RSR]

Have the Dealer Principal involved with the Service Manager. Any chunky costs will need his approval first anyway. Best to have him in the room to make instant decisions. CCTV is an excellent suggestion. Prepare a list of questions before you go. Prepare a list of outcomes. No matter how much you think about it tonight, once you are in the dealer your mind may start to fuzz. Don't get steam rolled in to a quick decision there and then. Feel free to ask for time to consider every option they put forward. Give the dealer the chance to put it right first before BMW UK are involved. Its only metal. (except the wing!!) Everything can be fixed. If you get a independent assessor involved instigate him yourself first, not the dealer.

[m1bjr]

Carrera RSR.
The only one talking sense here.

How about this..
I clouted my company car on a metal fence post in a carpark in March.
Rolling off the power, about 5mph, bit of lock on trying to negotiate a tight spot in the carpark.
Wheel snags in railing, yanks wing into fence.
SNAPS steering rod, wankers the wing and wheel.

5mph turning into a parking spot.
Low loader to garage...

So I can tell you all from recent experience this is EASILY done negotiating a workshop.
I doubt that it hit another car, but those stairs look a favorite!

Its an axial steering rod and some plastic.
Its a days work and you wont ever know its been done.
Neither will anyone else.

What do you guys do when something really serious happens in life?
You certainly aint going to get that new car you just convinced yourself about.
I hear the A-Team are reforming for a movie...

[catdog1121]

I know you dont want to lie when selling the car, but there is a simple answer and politicians do it all the time, basically it goes like this.

Buyer: "has the car been in an accident or prang"

You: " I have not crashed the car or had an accident, No"

You are not technically lying, the buyer thinks you have answered his question when in reality you have just told him you havent had an accident in it which is truthful.

[MalM3]

the car fell off the lift 100%

and landed on that wheel

[leetennis]

M1bjr- Its not the point that it will be fixed and you will be none the wiser, he knows its happened and that itslef makes you loose confidence in the vehicle, service and brand.

You have a case for compensation however its only with BMW UK you will get decent compensation the dealer has limited options as they can ony buy/sell cars at a certain value before it raises question with BMW.

I recently have had problems with my vehicle, car still in gagrage and new car specced and delivery expected in oct - go figure!

[m1bjr]

Originally Posted by leetennis

You have a case for compensation however its only with BMW UK you will get decent compensation the dealer has limited options as they can ony buy/sell cars at a certain value before it raises question with BMW

This is a franchised dealer right?
So a Limited Company T/A BMW xxxx

Nothing to do with BMW UK, it's solely between the owner and that Limited Company.
The options that a dealer have are entirely up to them.

[leetennis]

Highly unlikely dealer will bridge the gap of compensation they will do smaller gaps however anything like the magnitude of getting into a new vehicle will need to be honoured by BMW UK, which is the problem i stated at the start its a dealer fault not a brand.
However these types of mistakes are not what bmw want to be connected with and may want to put right for him.

Just been through it all buddy.

[G82Dude]

I would try to find out HOW such an incident happened at allegedly manoeuvring speeds WITHIN the workshop. I can understand a dented bumper/wing, it is done very easily and very quickly. But undertray AND a suspension strut? I suspect that they are being less than honest with you.

Meanwhile, you cannot force them to buy or replace your vehicle. Their exposure currently is to repair your car to your satisfaction and your very high standards. But with the proviso that any future related issues they cover without question. As you mention that you are a previous customer, you might try to get them to assure a future value for the vehicle, so that they take on the repaired vehicle. Although, you would not be able to force them to do so.

Your car will, no doubt, be returned to its former glory. Ultimately, you must judge whether you take your business elsewhere in the future.

A discussion with BMW UK might assist, as it is not particularly good publicity for them. Alternatively, a suitably worded letter to the MD of BMW UK (tim.abbott@bmw.co.uk) might be in order.

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by BlackCat

Hi folks,



My 335i MSport Convertible (1 year old, only 3,400 miles -- I really ought to update my sig!) went into the dealer yesterday for some minor bits of warranty work. Got a call this morning from the service advisor telling me that they had managed to crash my car into another within the workshop.

I would want to see the other car as well.

[BlackCat]

Thanks all. Off to see the dealer this morning. Having thought about it overnight there are clearly a couple of routes worth pursuing, and I will start to turn the screw regarding the nature of the damage and how it happened... something doesn't smell right.

So, route one is that they repair the car properly to the satisfaction of myself and an independent assessor, plus covering me for any consequential financial loss as a result of the accident (lower resale value, inability to resell privately). This does not compensate me for time and hassle, nor for any nagging, lingering feeling that the car is no longer the one which went into the garage on Wednesday, of course.

Route two is that we find a financial mechanism of them buying back the car (whether or not with the support of BMW UK) and using the money realised as trade in against another vehicle. Under this approach I think the dealer would find it reasonable to expect that the replacement vehicle was sold by them. This is undoubtedly a worse solution for the dealer, but will probably keep me happier and make me more likely to continue using their services, particularly as my car buying history is a new car every 12-18 months. I'm willing to kick in some case (5K or so) to make this happen.

So, I would guess it comes down to how much they value my business. Route one is legally pretty firm, but route two is clearly a cleaner option for all concerned. I'd be sorry to see the car go, though. I've lavished a lot of attention on it: Zymol'd, Mod4Cars box of tricks and so on.

BC

[xenon]

Originally Posted by m1bjr

Carrera RSR.
The only one talking sense here.

How about this..
I clouted my company car on a metal fence post in a carpark in March.
Rolling off the power, about 5mph, bit of lock on trying to negotiate a tight spot in the carpark.
Wheel snags in railing, yanks wing into fence.
SNAPS steering rod, wankers the wing and wheel.

5mph turning into a parking spot.
Low loader to garage...

So I can tell you all from recent experience this is EASILY done negotiating a workshop.
I doubt that it hit another car, but those stairs look a favorite!

Its an axial steering rod and some plastic.
Its a days work and you wont ever know its been done.
Neither will anyone else.

What do you guys do when something really serious happens in life?
You certainly aint going to get that new car you just convinced yourself about.
I hear the A-Team are reforming for a movie...

This makes sense too.

Depending on how you clout it, it's easy to bend a tie-rod. I;ve done it on a ramp myself at an MOT station - reversing on full-lock and hit the front wheel at an angle against the brake test rollers - tie-rod bent easily.

All the consipiracy thories don't really add up for me - the dealer has plenty of cars to play with without having to take yours for a joyride.

It's fcuking annoying but shit happens. They repair it with genuine bits, give you a quality loaner whilst they do it, a pukka valet after and you pick it up shiny and spangly next week.

Has it ever been in an accident? You can truthfully answer NO. It's had a tie rod replaced and a cracked wing fitted. No biggie.

[BlackCat]

OK, quick update as have just got back from the dealer. Repairs are going to be somewhat more significant than expected:

• Front bumper assembly
• Near side wing
• Alloy wheel
• Wheel hub
• All front nearside suspension components
• Steering rack
• Possibly the bonnet
• Possibly some other components once they disassemble the front of the car
• Full 4-wheel alignment

That is much more than just a bent tie rod replacement! It will be off the road for at least a week depending on when they get the parts and when their insurance assessment has been done. I'm driving the service manager's 5-series which is not a patch on my car, but at least is something.

I have stated my concern that the accident will affect either the ability to resell or the resale value, and my concern (possibly emotional) that the car 'just won't be the same' after all the repairs. I think they understood and I have asked them to come back to me later on today with their proposal as to how they make me feel better about the product, the dealership and the BMW brand. I don't think they are lying about how the accident happened, incidentally, but I do think it was at significant speed given the damage.

More later. In the meantime if anyone has any further ideas (and thanks all for the comments so far) then feel free to air them!

Thanks again,

BC

[xenon]

Fair enough - that is a bit more than just a bent tie-rod. At least they're being thorough....

Good luck.

[Em135eye]

Originally Posted by SoYank

I would want to see the other car as well.

Best point so far here!

Looks pretty nasty and sounds like it is.

Had a dealer try and get away with scraping a car of mine once - spotted it just before driving away - they clearly tried to get away with it.

As for resale - my Golf R32 got stoved into and repaired - just body damage but it was fairly major. Didn't mention it when I sold it to a VW dealer - they thoroughly checked it and it "passed" fine. IMO, it's up to the buyer to inspect a car properly, especially a dealer.

Good luck - a tricky situation!

[ibanezking]

After the dealers gave me my car back last week with all 4 bolts that hold the steering column in place - Loose!

My bass player is a senior tech at Mercedes Manchester................ and he says CUSTOMER RETENTION is drummed into the whole dealership ALL THE TIME..............

they want YOU back thru the door..................

They WANT YOU - to keep coming back

They're not some back street double glazing firm who rip every customer off and never get a repeat customer - then go bust and re-appear the week after with a new name

[BlackCat]

Saw the other car, incidentally: minor scuff to the corner of the bumper and the whole bumper out of alignment. Best guess is that the corner of the other car hit my wheel and kept on going...

I'd hope that I'm a good enough customer of BMW in general and this dealer in particular that they come up with a sensible proposal this afternoon.

BC

[vikzE92]

fingers crossed for you BC it seems like they are willing to discuss so I hope they come up with a sensible proposition-good luck!