[noro]

The 1st generation direct injection never made into production. So it's the 2nd generation but 1 time in production

[Shawn_speed]

Originally Posted by noro

The 1st generation direct injection never made into production. So it's the 2nd generation but 1 time in production

Noro: I urge you to download and study the four sticky pdf files in the "general forced induction discussion" of the technical forums. Knowledge will set you free.

BMW considers DI in the 2003 7 series as first generation. Hence 2nd gen. designation for n54.



http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...mw_335i_coupe is a good article referenced by insider. Authors refer to the n54 as a "magnesium alloy" engine which is incorrect. Because of the increased torque, this beauty is cast in space age aluminum only. This fact has confused others to conclude that the n54 is based on the old aluminum engines from e46. They are also mistaken since the dimensions of n54 block is identical to the n52.

Shawn
Phoenix

[noro]

Originally Posted by Shawn_speed

Noro: I urge you to download and study the four sticky pdf files in the "general forced induction discussion" of the technical forums. Knowledge will set you free.

BMW considers DI in the 2003 7 series as first generation. Hence 2nd gen. designation for n54.



http://www.eurotuner.com/featuredveh...mw_335i_coupe is a good article referenced by insider. Authors refer to the n54 as a "magnesium alloy" engine which is incorrect. Because of the increased torque, this beauty is cast in space age aluminum only. This fact has confused others to conclude that the n54 is based on the old aluminum engines from e46. They are also mistaken since the dimensions of n54 block is identical to the n52.

Shawn
Phoenix

Thanks man, my bad. I have read what I posted somewhere though.

[jbl16]

Originally Posted by ironic

i'm getting kind of pissed off w/ bmws marketing strategies /rant

Tell me about it I bought a 330i a year ago and now i can get a 335i with 50hp more for essentially the same price. Got **** in the *** : /. Oh well lol

[noro]

Originally Posted by jbl16

Tell me about it I bought a 330i a year ago and now i can get a 335i with 50hp more for essentially the same price. Got **** in the *** : /. Oh well lol

General rule of thumb... BMW in case of 3 series often bumps up the bodystyle and then the engine about a year later. So the bottom line, do not buy a new bodystyle BMW for the 1st year of production.

[edgarj]

Originally Posted by jbl16

Tell me about it I bought a 330i a year ago and now i can get a 335i with 50hp more for essentially the same price. Got **** in the *** : /. Oh well lol

I agree on this point. BMW actually relaeased pics and detailed info on the engine a year ago and the rumor was that it would be a euro-only motor, with a NA 335 in the US. They could have easilly dropped 330i prices and been forthcomming about this change, but they decided to play their hand close. They have done this a lot lately, with the S54 in the M-Z3, I don't think many people thought they'd drop that engine into an end-of-life platform for the last 1 1/2 years, especially with the demand fro the motor from the 01/02 M3 being insanely higher than supply... but they did, just like so many other powertrain upgrades. The "year after a new model rule" is pretty good advice, but if you need a new car and the current offering suits your needs, get it and don't look back. It's always going to get better for any price point given enough time, but you loose out on lots of time with a great car if you play that game. This reminds me of my lifelong love-hate relationship with Apple computers. The alternative is less incremental progress, which I would hate to see.

[ron_jeremy]

Ok, the 330 motor is the N52 guys, and the 335 is the N54.

No, it's the other way around!
330i uses N54 with magnesium alloy.
335i uses N52B30, the "old" E46 engine, because it was more solid, and could handle the extra forces.


BMW didn't want to use the first generation off DI, because they didn't see enough benefits, so they skipped first generation, and moved to 2 generation DI.
And this is the DI one can find it 330i, 335i and so on.


The "new" engines are just tweaked a bit, new mapping for the engines.
More torque and hk, and cleaner.
:rocks:

[SANK_CH]

Originally Posted by KevinC

From the new issue of Autoweek that just arrived, describing the refreshed 5-series that's about to show up as an '08 model...

...all-new inline six-cylinder engines-the turbo model fitted with the German carmaker's second-generation High Precision direct injection fuel system. The updated engines, which head into other BMW models throughout 2007...

Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines, but "2nd generation" direct injection? Does this not sound like something new already?

ummm just to let you know that no 535i TT has been annonced yet.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...elift-in-depth

[akwhite330i]

this is slightly off topic, but the 335i MPG efficiency SUCKS.

I'm getting 13-14 mpg city driving (nyc) and I'm not ripping every corner (i'm still in break in period at 500 miles).

feel like i'm getting ferrari mileage out of this car lol

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by SANK_CH

ummm just to let you know that no 535i TT has been annonced yet.

From BMW USA press release:

How much power can one driver harness? That all depends. For the 528i sedan, we’ve developed a 230 horsepower inline six cylinder engine, an improvement of 15 horsepower over last year’s model. More impressively, our 535i sedan’s inline 6 with twin turbo has been boosted to 300-horsepower, an upgrade of 45 horsepower.


http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/futur...e=NEW5FVTOPNAV

[mr2guy]

Ron_Jeremy, N54 is the new Turbo motor based off of the M54 block from the E46 cars. N52 is the magnesium/aluminum normally aspirated engine. Let's try and keep it straight so that everyone isn't all mixed up. (not that is really matters)

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by akwhite330i

this is slightly off topic, but the 335i MPG efficiency SUCKS.

I'm getting 13-14 mpg city driving (nyc) and I'm not ripping every corner (i'm still in break in period at 500 miles).

feel like i'm getting ferrari mileage out of this car lol

This is totally normal in NYC
You are more on traffic light than driving
My 330ci gets the same
My friends Acura TL and dad's honda accord gets the same, dont feel bad
You only get more MPG in NYC with very small 4-cyl or hybird

[Shawn_speed]

Originally Posted by mr2guy

Ron_Jeremy, N54 is the new Turbo motor based off of the M54 block from the E46 cars. N52 is the magnesium/aluminum normally aspirated engine. Let's try and keep it straight so that everyone isn't all mixed up. (not that is really matters)

The idea that n54 uses the e46 engine's block is a common perception. I think it is wrong. N54 uses the exact same block as the n52 but it is cast in aluminum instead of magnesium alloy to handle the higher torque.

Shawn
Phoenix

[SANK_CH]

Originally Posted by KevinC

From BMW USA press release:

How much power can one driver harness? That all depends. For the 528i sedan, we’ve developed a 230 horsepower inline six cylinder engine, an improvement of 15 horsepower over last year’s model. More impressively, our 535i sedan’s inline 6 with twin turbo has been boosted to 300-horsepower, an upgrade of 45 horsepower.


http://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/futur...e=NEW5FVTOPNAV

why only on the US market?????

[ron_jeremy]

Originally Posted by Shawn_speed

The idea that n54 uses the e46 engine's block is a common perception. I think it is wrong. N54 uses the exact same block as the n52 but it is cast in aluminum instead of magnesium alloy to handle the higher torque.

Shawn
Phoenix

This has confused me alot, can anybody say 100% what is what?

It was said, that the new magnesium alloy couldn't handle the forced power of the 335i engine, so they used the old block.
That's why it's different CCM.

[Shawn_speed]

There is a Great set of four PDF files in the "forced Induction discussion" forum as a sticky. The files have many references that make it clear N52 and n54 are same block but different alloys. For example, the PDF file titled "2007 engine introduction" on page 6 has an overview of the n54 with bullet points, quote: "All aluminum Crankcase with iron cylinder liners (similar dimensions to N52)".

These files are mandatory reading for any Bimmer enthusiast. I believe if more owners really understood the design and logic behind the way choices are made, they would be more careful about modding their cars unless they used them on tracks or rally events.

Shawn
Phoenix

[jmonier]

Originally Posted by Shawn_speed

There is a Great set of four PDF files in the "forced Induction discussion" forum as a sticky. The files have many references that make it clear N52 and n54 are same block but different alloys. For example, the PDF file titled "2007 engine introduction" on page 6 has an overview of the n54 with bullet points, quote: "All aluminum Crankcase with iron cylinder liners (similar dimensions to N52)".

These files are mandatory reading for any Bimmer enthusiast. I believe if more owners really understood the design and logic behind the way choices are made, they would be more careful about modding their cars unless they used them on tracks or rally events.

Shawn
Phoenix

I agree with you that these files are of great value but I read them completely differently on the point that N52 and N54 are the same block:

1. Completely different alloys (aluminum/cast iron liners vs magnesium/aluminum) make it a different block IMHO.

2. N54 has cast iron liners. N52 is an integral block (no separate liners).

3. While the dimensions are SIMILAR they are NOT the same. Both bore and stroke are different.

As near as i can tell there are few (if any) common parts between the two engines.

[Shawn_speed]

Originally Posted by jmonier

I agree with you that these files are of great value but I read them completely differently on the point that N52 and N54 are the same block:

1. Completely different alloys (aluminum/cast iron liners vs magnesium/aluminum) make it a different block IMHO.

2. N54 has cast iron liners. N52 is an integral block (no separate liners).

3. While the dimensions are SIMILAR they are NOT the same. Both bore and stroke are different.

As near as i can tell there are few (if any) common parts between the two engines.

No argument here. I am attempting to debunk the myth that n54 is based on the older e46 engines. It is not. This doesn't invalidate any of the points you are making. All of them are valid as far as I know.

Bore and Stroke are not considered part of the block dimensions. They are unique attributes that engine designers use to determine different compression ratios as well as the torque curve characteristics of each engine iteration.

Shawn
Phoenix

[jmonier]

Originally Posted by Shawn_speed

No argument here. I am attempting to debunk the myth that n54 is based on the older e46 engines. It is not. This doesn't invalidate any of the points you are making. All of them are valid as far as I know.

I certainly don't agree with with your statement that it is not. I haven't got an absolute source that says it is but I do infer that it is. When the displacement is EXACTLY the same and the block construction is the same then I think it is a fair assumption that the block is the same (especially when the N52 does have slightly different numbers). Obviously many other things (such as the heads) are totally different. This doesn't absolutely prove that it is but your points don't prove that it isn't.

Bore and Stroke are not considered part of the block dimensions. They are unique attributes that engine designers use to determine different compression ratios as well as the torque curve characteristics of each engine iteration.

I would certainly agree that the same basic block can (in different incarnations) end up with different dimensions for bore and/or stroke. My point was that when you have two engines with the same nominal displacement but where the exact displacement, bore and stroke dimensions are different then they're almost certainly different blocks since it makes no sense to make that kind of change to an existing block. Bore and stroke can change the overall torque by increasing/decreasing displacement but without major changes in the bore/stroke ratio (usually outside that which is possible with a given block) the torque curve will not change much. Compression ratio is much more a function of head and piston design than bore/stroke.

[gdnyc]

Originally Posted by undecided

If the 2nd gen DI 3.0 liter I-6 gets 273hp then how come the addition of 2 turbos only give it only another 27hp? Does the NA 3 liter I-6 still get valvetronic in addition to getting the 2nd gen DI? I think Audi is going there with their 3.1 liter V6. With DI they got 255hp and they're adding something similar to valvetronic to get 300hp all NA. BMW claimed that valvetronic + DI did not add up to cumulative gains. Some of the gains were redundant.

CZ

IIRC, Audi has had FSI (DI) since the 2.0T motor came out back in 2005.

[Robin_NL]

N54 (335i) has the same bore x stroke as the 'old e46 330i ' engine. N52(e90 330i) has a different bore x stroke.

When does the 3rd generation DI come?Anybody?

[Shawn_speed]

jmonier:

Let me do some digging to see if there is a way to know for sure. Maybe someone will chime in with specific references or BMW documentation that would settle the origin of the N54 block.

Shawn