[davyk31]

I think GAP is quite a generic term in that people are often buying return to invoice but calling it GAP incorrectly. Agree how amazingly quick some dealers will slash their price after first trying to con you out of £500 or £600. No thanks is my response and come home and buy it on the net for even less.

[dar2008]

Re: AlanQS's comments...

I'm sure you are technically correct in what you are saying. However, BMW market 'return to invoice' insurance policies as 'GAP' insurance. Hence everyone's 'misunderstanding'. I'll try and dig out my documents tonight but I'm pretty sure the marketing on them refers to 'GAP' insurance, whilst clearly it is a 'return to invoice' policy.

[BGM]

it covers the gap between your insurance payout and the original purchase price

so kinda is still gap insurance

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by AlanQS

GAP insurance is NOT "return to invoice" insurance. The only person who should consider GAP insurance is someone who is paying finance, i.e. not those paying cash or using a bank loan but paying H.P. or some other kind of finance where the lender can have a lien over your car.

Some car dealers now have GAP insurance built into their computer presentation build up of the price of your car - along with some sort of magic paint protection system as well.

All that has to be remembered is, if you are paying cash for your car, there is no GAP and therefore no need for gap protection.

I think there's an element of semantics here; I didn't know about 'return to invoice' policies. All I was looking for was something that would compensate for the difference between the original purchase price and the car's value at a later date. I defined this 'difference' as a gap and when I saw advertisements for gap insurance, I thought it would be exactly what I needed - how wrong you can be . Perhaps I should have looked for difference, gulf, rift, split, separation, breach, contrast, disparity, divergence, imbalance, chink, slit, slot, vent, crack, crevice, cranny, cavity, hole, orifice or interstice insurance
Seriously though, I hear what you say and will refine my search accordingly.
My thanks to you and all other respondents for your advice.

[BGM]

Originally Posted by Jon D

I think there's an element of semantics here; I didn't know about 'return to invoice' policies. All I was looking for was something that would compensate for the difference between the original purchase price and the car's value at a later date. I defined this 'difference' as a gap and when I saw advertisements for gap insurance, I thought it would be exactly what I needed - how wrong you can be . Perhaps I should have looked for difference, gulf, rift, split, separation, breach, contrast, disparity, divergence, imbalance, chink, slit, slot, vent, crack, crevice, cranny, cavity, hole, orifice or interstice insurance
Seriously though, I hear what you say and will refine my search accordingly.
My thanks to you and all other respondents for your advice.

no, it is what you need.. just another type of gap insurance

[davyk31]

Not sure googling "Orifice insurance" will yield great results !!!!

[GAPInsurance]

Originally Posted by AlanQS

GAP insurance is NOT "return to invoice" insurance. The only person who should consider GAP insurance is someone who is paying finance, i.e. not those paying cash or using a bank loan but paying H.P. or some other kind of finance where the lender can have a lien over your car.

All that has to be remembered is, if you are paying cash for your car, there is no GAP and therefore no need for gap protection.

Guys (and Gals?) I've been alerted to this conversation as there is obviously some major confusion over "GAP Insurance", the above quote being but one example.

I wanted to take the opportunity to try to clarify matters.

Generally speaking there are three types of "GAP Insurance" (there are actually four different types currently available in terms of vehicles, but the fourth isn't particularly relevant in terms of this thread). How they differ is dependant on what "Gap" the policy is to cover:

• Finance GAP Insurance - Covering the difference between the motor insurance payout and the amount outstanding on finance at the time of loss.
• Invoice GAP Insurance - Covering the difference between the motor insurance payout and the original price the vehicle was purchased for.
• Replacement GAP Insurance - Covering the difference between the motor insurance payout and the cost of replacing the vehicle new-for-old at the time of loss.

"GAP", simply stands for "Guaranteed Asset Protection" - in whatever form that may take.

Originally (in relation to vehicles), GAP Insurance was solely "Finance GAP Insurance" and was sold to prevent a negative equity scenario occurring at the time of loss (write-off), however other forms of GAP Insurance have been around for some time now - (I was selling Finance and Invoice GAP Insurance when I was selling cars back in 1999... my word, is it that long ago already??)

The claim above, that the only person who should consider GAP Insurance is someone who has financed their car is, with respect, incorrect and somewhat poor advice - sorry AlanQS!

Consider... the potential risk to a "Finance Buyer" is always decreasing... after all, each month a repayment is made towards the finance agreement and the amount outstanding reduces... this means that the goal posts are constantly moving (shrinking) and (generally) the more time that goes by without a claim, the more will have been paid off the finance, therefore the smaller the potential GAP Insurance payout will be.

In summary, Finance GAP Insurance is a decreasing level of cover.

On the flip side, Invoice GAP Insurance, effectively fixes the original purchase price as the start point... the more time that goes by without a claim, the more the vehicle will have depreciated, therefore the larger the potential gap would be.

In summary, Invoice GAP Insurance is an increasing level of cover.

This being the case, a cash buyer is almost always at a greater potential of financial loss than a finance buyer and subsequently is usually far better suited to buying GAP Insurance. Further, with few exceptions (see below) a finance buyer is usually better suited to purchasing Invoice or Replacement GAP Insurance than Finance Gap Insurance, on the basis that an Invoice or Replacement GAP Insurance policy would usually leave them with money left over, after having settled the remaining finance (if applicable), to put towards the cost of replacing the vehicle - as opposed to Finance GAP Insurance which at best would leave them at zero... (e.g. no car, but no debt either)

The only time that a Finance Buyer would be better suited to buying GAP Insurance than a cash buyer, is if no or little deposit was put down and/or the interest rate of the finance agreement was particularly high, in which case the finance agreement settlement figure in the early part of the loan could well be higher than the original purchase price of the vehicle.

However, to counter this, you'll now find that many companies offer a combined Finance + Invoice GAP Insurance policy which, in the event of a Total Loss, will pay the difference between the motor insurance payout and the GREATER of either, the finance agreement settlement figure OR the original vehicle purchase price - giving the best of both cover types in one policy.

I apologise for stepping on anyone's toes. I mean not to cause offence.

David.

[AlanQS]

You appear to have said what I said, albeit using more words and expanding to include the notion of declining cover and increasing cover.

I was only trying to get a specific point across, not a comprehensive discourse on insurance. That point was that financial gap insurance only covered difference between insurance payout and finance owing - which is true, and would therefore be useless for someone buying a car for cash or via a bank loan.

I'm not upset about it but your post did come in a tad patronising, with a touch of "here comes the font of all knowledge".

The original poster asked if he should be considering gap insurance (and we have all assumed it was finance gap insurance - 'cos that's typically what dealers try to sell you) and pointed out he wasn't financing the car to which he has received the answer "no, don't consider it."

In what way then, were we confused?

[dar2008]

AlanQS,... that GAP you're digging for yourself is getting bigger...

[AlanQS]

Could you expand on that?

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by SurfandProtect

I apologise for stepping on anyone's toes. I mean not to cause offence.

David.

David,
Many thanks for such a comprehensive, yet concise, explanation.
Absolutely no reason to apologise and, whilst I can't speak for others who may or may not get bent out of shape at the slightest perceived provocation , my toes are perfectly intact

[AlanQS]

It's interesting how people interpret conversations when it's just the written word and there are no nuances of tone or facial expression to help out in said interpretation - part of why we have smilies to qualify what is said.

SurfandProtect stated "incorrect and somewhat poor advice - sorry AlanQS! " complete with "slap" smiley.

Since I had only been addressing a narrow point, I felt I had to make it clear whilst also stating "I'm not upset about it " and ending the line with a smiley.

So Jon, I had said nothing that was bent out of shape prior to the "slap" I got which of course was all right, whilst my totally tame response was not?

Had you read other parts of the forum you would have seen that SurfandProtect has already posted the same detailed and informative text on another thread (isn't copy/paste wonderful) and given that he neither drives an E9x or even a BMW, and has posted only on insurance threads, one would assume that he is a bit of an expert on insurance and will soon be a Bimmerpost sponsor!

[davyk31]

Of course SurfandProtect is an expert on this matter given he runs a company selling it, think he should be sponsoring the site to some degree. Agree with AlanQS, his post was informative and a little patronising and an exact copy of posts i have seen here and on other forums, guess he spends his day googling GAP insurance to help the discussion on various forums.

Having said all that I am a customer of theirs several times over and happy to date with their prices.

[AlanQS]

I found his comments on financial gap insurance interesting in that - to me - he formally confirms my feeling that financial gap insurance is the least worthy of the different types and yet when he states that financial gap only seems to be pushed by dealers now, that falls totally in line with my experiences over the last six years.

He's posted in the right way as well, in not touting his own business in any way - something that the owners of this site really seem to clamp down on.

[davyk31]

Is using his company name as his username not touting his business just a bit ??

[GAPInsurance]

Originally Posted by AlanQS

In what way then, were we confused?

I think reading the following comments would equate to some confusion over what GAP Insurance is (or is not)?

Originally Posted by Jeff123

Why is it that people such as me are being sold GAP insurance on a car with no finance?

Originally Posted by davyk31

I think GAP is quite a generic term in that people are often buying return to invoice but calling it GAP incorrectly.

Originally Posted by dar2008

I'm sure you are technically correct in what you are saying. However, BMW market 'return to invoice' insurance policies as 'GAP' insurance. Hence everyone's 'misunderstanding'.

Originally Posted by BGM

it covers the gap between your insurance payout and the original purchase price

so kinda is still gap insurance

Originally Posted by Jon D

I think there's an element of semantics here; I didn't know about 'return to invoice' policies. All I was looking for was something that would compensate for the difference between the original purchase price and the car's value at a later date. I defined this 'difference' as a gap and when I saw advertisements for gap insurance, I thought it would be exactly what I needed - how wrong you can be .

This last one being perhaps most clear example of some confusion being present... "I didn't know about 'return to invoice'..." before going to explain that it's what he was infact looking for.

Originally Posted by AlanQS

You appear to have said what I said, albeit using more words and expanding to include the notion of declining cover and increasing cover.

Agreed!

However most dealers and/or online GAP Insurance providers refer to "GAP Insurance" as a generic term for the range of products and as a result most people use the phrase "gap insurance" to search for it online, your comments about the only people who should consider "gap insurance" should be those who finance their vehicles, could, in my humble opinion be mis-interpreted.

I merely sought to highlight that further validation is required in terms of understanding the type of GAP Insurance being considered and point out that it's far from as simple as considering Finance GAP for financed vehicles or Invoice GAP for vehicles purchased outright.

Originally Posted by AlanQS

I was only trying to get a specific point across, not a comprehensive discourse on insurance. That point was that financial gap insurance only covered difference between insurance payout and finance owing - which is true, and would therefore be useless for someone buying a car for cash or via a bank loan.

Granted - you are quite right in what you say, but using "GAP Insurance" (which as mentioned, is more of a generic term nowadays rather than a product name in its own right), was, I thought, too vague.

Originally Posted by AlanQS

I'm not upset about it but your post did come in a tad patronising, with a touch of "here comes the font of all knowledge".

I'm very sorry.

Originally Posted by AlanQS

The original poster asked if he should be considering gap insurance (and we have all assumed it was finance gap insurance - 'cos that's typically what dealers try to sell you) and pointed out he wasn't financing the car to which he has received the answer "no, don't consider it."

Hence I thought further clarification on the types available and an overview of how they function would be useful.

Originally Posted by AlanQS

It's interesting how people interpret conversations when it's just the written word and there are no nuances of tone or facial expression to help out in said interpretation - part of why we have smilies to qualify what is said.

SurfandProtect stated "incorrect and somewhat poor advice - sorry AlanQS! " complete with "slap" smiley.

With clarification as to the GAP Insurance product type you were referring to, your advice was neither incorrect, nor poor! Sorry AlanQS (Note... I'm slapping myself)

Originally Posted by AlanQS

Since I had only been addressing a narrow point, I felt I had to make it clear whilst also stating "I'm not upset about it " and ending the line with a smiley.

So Jon, I had said nothing that was bent out of shape prior to the "slap" I got which of course was all right, whilst my totally tame response was not?

Had you read other parts of the forum you would have seen that SurfandProtect has already posted the same detailed and informative text on another thread (isn't copy/paste wonderful) and given that he neither drives an E9x or even a BMW, and has posted only on insurance threads, one would assume that he is a bit of an expert on insurance and will soon be a Bimmerpost sponsor!

AlanQS... please tell me that you know the slap was meant in very good humour??

I wish I'd remembered the other post... copy and paste would have saved me some time!

Originally Posted by davyk31

Of course SurfandProtect is an expert on this matter given he runs a company selling it, think he should be sponsoring the site to some degree.

In terms of sponsorship, I work for S&P but can't make sponsorship decisions on behalf of them. But if someone wants to PM me formal sponsorship details (or a link to them), I can put them in front of the right people at this end.

Originally Posted by davyk31

Agree with AlanQS, his post was informative and a little patronising and an exact copy of posts i have seen here and on other forums, guess he spends his day googling GAP insurance to help the discussion on various forums.

Again. I'm sorry for coming across as patronising. It was far from my intention.

In terms of Googling GAP Insurance, I'm pleased to say I've not lost my life to GAP Insurance to that degree yet. "Google Alerts" is the key.

i.e. Google alerts me by email whenever they/it picks up a new mention of GAP Insurance on the web... I did say right at the beginning of my post that I'd been "alerted to this conversation" .

Over the years I have indeed taken part in many online forum discussions relating to GAP Insurance... it's usually the same questions/issues being posed/discussed so you will see the same or similar answers and guidance all over the web.

Originally Posted by davyk31

Is using his company name as his username not touting his business just a bit ??

An unintentional oversight when I first registered... if it's possible for me or a mod to change my username I'm happy for this to happen.

David

[xenon]

I don't think it was patronising, it explained it to me anyway.

[davyk31]

I don't think there is anything wrong with having someone like surfandprotect involved here as requiring expert knowledge is why we all ask questions on forums. Would seem appropriate to perhaps contribute to the cost of running this site and perhaps then you could have a more permament presence and perhaps some special incentives for the forum users who would much rather pay a reasonable price for their "GAP" insurance rather than the extortionate BMW dealer costs.
I'm sure a mod can contact regarding how to make that happen if surfandprotect are interested.

[AlanQS]

David, i take your point about the generic use of GAP which does not just mean financing insurance - I used it in it's narrow definition so I now understand why to you, it looked as if there was confusion about it. Thanks for that.

I wouldn't worry about your user name, it's things like web site links in sigs that upset the powers that be.

After all, if Davy hadn't said that your user name was the company name, no one would have been any the wiser.

[Jon D]

Talk about 'Pandora's Box'! What did I open?
David,
That compilation clearly took a good deal of time; business must be good .
I have a quote from your company and you're definitely in the running.
Cheers,
Jon

[V330d]

As a surfandprotect customer the deferral of insurance for the first year swayed me to them. Further contact since regarding a new policy has raised my opinion.

ps I've no connection in any way!!!!