[R1000K3]

I see, this is quite a good explanation. However, it is incorrect. No offence and don't take this as criticism. I'm just trying to sort out if I'm an idiot or if and where there is a possible misunderstanding. Now I know what your assumption is based on, which makes it easier to explain.

The engine power is basically (but not exactly) the same on all gears. Period. The simple explanation is the engine does not now what is behind it. Horsepower can not be multiplied or divided by the gear box or final drive. It is torque, or pulling power to use another word that does.

In case this is not obvious for your dyno shop it doesn't help they have done 1000 pulls and it will not be more clear to them after the next 100000 pulls unless they understand the concept of a gasoline engine powered vechicle, and what the figures that comes out of a dyno are based on. The later differs between dynos, but the engine is the same.

Please understand this is not to criticize you in any way, just kick the butt hard on the dyno shop if the lead you to believe the engine produced 85 more whp on 5th vs. 4th as a natural thing.

So, why did the dyno showed 385 whp on 4th and 439 whp on 5th gear? That is the question. Ask the dyno shop and let us know what the say.

Cheers

[edo]

Originally Posted by enrita

if you do pull with the M3 50-200 you should get at least 5 cars . What are your 100-200 times?
I must say that your highest figures are really a bit too high. The first pull 385 whp should be more aligned with the mods you have.

I know I should get at least 5 cars lengths. But I don't. And that what makes no sense keeping in mind the same dyno on the same day showed 100whp difference.
My best 100-200 km/h time was 9.4s, but usually it is ~10s.
I presume this could be due to weight difference and my heavy wheels.

[edo]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

The engine power is basically (but not exactly) the same on all gears. Period. The simple explanation is the engine does not now what is behind it. Horsepower can not be multiplied or divided by the gear box or final drive. It is torque, or pulling power to use another word that does.

That's what I wrote - engine power is the same in each gear. But you don't measure engine power, you measure power to the wheels. That's why gear ratios are important. And power is calculated from torque.

Originally Posted by R1000K3

Please understand this is not to criticize you in any way, just kick the butt hard on the dyno shop if the lead you to believe the engine produced 85 more whp on 5th vs. 4th as a natural thing.

85? How did you get that number? 439whp - 385whp = 54whp. Funny.

Originally Posted by R1000K3

So, why did the dyno showed 385 whp on 4th and 439 whp on 5th gear? That is the question. Ask the dyno shop and let us know what the say.

Do you realize that there could be also other factors? Like autotune?

[UCF 335]

First thing: Why does it say the car is a BMW 535 is the one you APPARENTLY forgot to black out.

Second Thing: The one that says 439 hp still says gear 4

[jblackwell]

Well, just my $.02.

A. Your baseline was done in 4th gear.

B. Everyone that I've ever seen post 335 dyno results has run in 4th gear (automatic and manual trans).

C. The reason you are taking so much heat is due to the fact that you have "world record" in your signature and used 5th on a dyno that is not commonly used (at least here in the states).

I'm sure your car runs strong, but I'd have to agree that without race gas and/or methanol it's unlikely these types of results are realistic.

Cheers!

[Irishace]

+1 to the second post. Get the car on the track or vid your 60-130 vbox runs and post up, that's where it matters.

[edo]

Originally Posted by goblue8

First thing: Why does it say the car is a BMW 535 is the one you APPARENTLY forgot to black out.

Second Thing: The one that says 439 hp still says gear 4

LOL. You guys are so funny...

I can give you a number of the dyno operator and you can ask him, why he wrote 535 instead of 335 if that will make you feel better. Or maybe you think "535" gives me additional 30whp? I don't know why he wrote so, maybe by accident. But thanks, I didn't see I forgot to black my licence plate number out.

Yes, it still says 4th gear, but the run was made in 5th. You can see "5th" written near "vehicle type". Feel better?

[R1000K3]

Originally Posted by edo

That's what I wrote - engine power is the same in each gear. But you don't measure engine power, you measure power to the wheels. That's why gear ratios are important. And power is calculated from torque.

85? How did you get that number? 439whp - 385whp = 54whp. Funny.

Do you realize that there could be also other factors? Like autotune?

The 85 figure was an obvious misprint, see the previous post where a more close figure is given; 55 hp. Fine if it makes you happy.

I'm not as happy, for your own sake in this debate, that you still believe horsepower on the wheels changes with gearing. Just to make it a bit clearer;

Imagine you are sitting on a wagon that is pulled by one horse only. Stop for a while and change the 40" wooden wheels to 20" BBS wheels for good measure. This will of course change the number of turns that the wheel rotates for a fixed distance. Look in front of the wagon and count the number of horses. Is there 2 horses now or a half horse? I think it is safe to put money on the fact that there is still one (1) horse unless he decided to leave the scene.

Finally, no, I dont realize how a Autotune could increase the power from 385 to 439 hp from one pull to the other, even it the process would supposedly be "accelerated" by doing it from 4th to 5th gear It takes about 20 pulls to reach that level and it is not possible even then without methanol injection.

It is possible to but not plausible since you never mentioned it in the first post to get 54 hp from one pull to the other, it is just to inject some laughing gas into the engine and the increase could easily be more than 54 hp.

I know you and your dyno shop are not the only ones that believes the number of wheel horse power is proportional to gear. This is the reason I try to explain it is so others are not lead into complete misunderstandings.

[edo]

Originally Posted by jblackwell

A. Your baseline was done in 4th gear.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by jblackwell

B. Everyone that I've ever seen post 335 dyno results has run in 4th gear (automatic and manual trans).

So? Most accurate results are when dynoed in 5th gear. Period. Everyone can go ahead and redyno.

Originally Posted by jblackwell

C. The reason you are taking so much heat is due to the fact that you have "world record" in your signature and used 5th on a dyno that is not commonly used (at least here in the states).

This is probably the funniest post in the thread Where's the "world record" in my signature? I can't see it
I honestly don't care about the numbers, what I care about is how a car performs on a road. And it performs OK, but is by far not the fastest there among other 335i's with the same mods.
You can use whichever gear you want, I don't care. But the fact is I haven't seen more whp on pump gas so far.

Originally Posted by jblackwell

I'm sure your car runs strong, but I'd have to agree that without race gas and/or methanol it's unlikely these types of results are realistic.

Well, I posted the dyno graph. There were ~10 other cars that were dynoed that evening and all of them put down as many whp as they should or even less. The numbers seem too high to me either, but it was cold and gas over here is MUCH better quality than in US. Maybe that why I put down so many whp. 16.8 PSI is a bit too high for pump gas, but it autotuned to such boost.

[edo]

Originally Posted by R1000K3

Imagine you are sitting on a wagon that is pulled by one horse only. Stop for a while and change the 40" wooden wheels to 20" BBS wheels for good measure. This will of course change the number of turns that the wheel rotates for a fixed distance. Look in front of the wagon and count the number of horses. Is there 2 horses now or a half horse? I think it is safe to put money on the fact that there is still one (1) horse unless he decided to leave the scene..

That's a bad example. YEs, there's one horse as you can SEE it. As far as I can see, you don't understand the basics of how a dynanometer and transmission works. Unfortunately, dynamometer doesn't SEE the power, it "feels" and calculates it. And the power to the wheels is deliveret through transmission, but you somehow just don't get it. Transmission has gears which have different gear ratios. My piece of advice - do some reading about gearing. Then you'll realize you were wrong.

Originally Posted by R1000K3

Finally, no, I dont realize how a Autotune could increase the power from 385 to 439 hp from one pull to the other, even it the process would supposedly be "accelerated" by doing it from 4th to 5th gear It takes about 20 pulls to reach that level and it is not possible even then without methanol injection..

You are starting to be annoying. NO, just autotune couldn't increase the power by 54whp, but it could by 10 or so. It got colder since the first run. Everything else - due to gear ratios.

Originally Posted by R1000K3

This is the reason I try to explain it is so others are not lead into complete misunderstandings.

Unfortunately, you are the one who is misleading everyone.

[packinDSS]

world record!!!

[edo]

Originally Posted by packinDSS

world record!!!

Another worthless post...

I start regretting posting here. As usually - a lot of rubbish talk about everything but not topic (my questions).

[dzenno]

Good numbers but to really compare with the rest of the member community try to go on a Dynojet and use STD correction...with a baseline (boltons) vs. with tune numbers and you'll have a better number to use for comparisons...

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by edo

Another worthless post...

I start regretting posting here. As usually - a lot of rubbish talk about everything but not topic (my questions).

no reason to stop posting, the HP #'s are just quite high, everyone would love to believe they can put on the same mods and get the same #'s but so far that hasnt happened.

reminds of the days of Hotrod's 1/4 mile #'s on such 'limited' mods. Many people put on similar mods and trapped NOWHERE close.

something is up. not sure what.

[adhalla]

you have standard mods and are claiming world record HP not by 1-2HP but 50+. expect some skepticism, calm down and dont get so worked up

[edo]

Originally Posted by adhalla

you have standard mods and are claiming world record HP not by 1-2HP but 50+.

Not quite 50+. As far as I remember, there were some 400+ whp pump gas runs.

Anyway, I'll dyno my car on another dynamometer soon and I'll be glad to see ~400whp. As I wrote before (and asked questions which almost no one seemed to notice) my car doesn't run as it had 439whp.

[Clarkson]

Originally Posted by edo

Not quite 50+. As far as I remember, there were some 400+ whp pump gas runs.

Anyway, I'll dyno my car on another dynamometer soon and I'll be glad to see ~400whp. As I wrote before (and asked questions which almost no one seemed to notice) my car doesn't run as it had 439whp.

Why is it your responses have anger in them?

Boost and timing is everything - unless you live in another dimension. Post the logs of that and we can see what is really happening.

[edo]

Originally Posted by Clarkson

Why is it your responses have anger in them?

Boost and timing is everything - unless you live in another dimension. Post the logs of that and we can see what is really happening.

Because of the crap that is posted here.

Tell me which channels to choose and I will gladly post. As I wrote in the first post, I don't know what all these stupid names debug byte, debug word mean.

[Juiced46]

Go to the track and that will tell the TRUE horsepower the car is making PERIOD. Dyno #s mean jackshit. Every dyno will read differently with the same car. my Cobra will see a 70-90rwhp difference from using a Mustang Dyno to a Dyno jet. I take it with a grain of salt, I use it for tuning, not for bragging rights. The dyno is used as a tuning tool and to get a comparison from a baseline to when you change mods. Real horsepower is determined by weight and what the car traps @ the track.

[jblackwell]

Originally Posted by edo

This is probably the funniest post in the thread Where's the "world record" in my signature? I can't see it

Sorry, I meant the title of the post, not your signature.

Originally Posted by edo

I honestly don't care about the numbers, what I care about is how a car performs on a road. And it performs OK, but is by far not the fastest there among other 335i's with the same mods.
You can use whichever gear you want, I don't care. But the fact is I haven't seen more whp on pump gas so far.

Clearly you do care about the numbers or you wouldn't have posted them with "world record" in the title.

If your car is by far not the fastest considering others with the same mods, I can only assume they are pushing out 500whp on pump gas. That seems realistic.

So, here you go buddy. Maybe you can hand these out to all of the other world record holding cars running around over there.

[Clarkson]

Originally Posted by edo

Because of the crap that is posted here.

Tell me which channels to choose and I will gladly post. As I wrote in the first post, I don't know what all these stupid names debug byte, debug word mean.

I would start with the generic defaults like:

Throttle
Debug Byte 5 - Boost Setting PSI
Boost Control Set Point - Boost target
CAN DBW Throttle
Debug Byte 2 - Ignition Correction %
Debug Word 2 - Average Integral
Debug Word 4 - Wastegate Compensation
Debug Byte 1 - Integral Gain %
CAN DME Codes
Debug Byte 6 - Aggression Level

You can guess not all is really needed but what the heck - include them anyways.

Make a good wide open throttle run in fourth gear until red line and post the log.

That should give a very good idea what we are looking at.

[badass335]

Please don't take this as offensive but that Hp number is VERY VERY high for a pump gas setup. I have full stage 3 mods with meth and i'm able to pull away from M3's and YES, i have a buddy with an 2010 M3 manual and we've run and i pull away on the highways. (usually at least 2 cars) I've raced my buddy with a C63 amg and i can pull away from him as well. With race (VP109) it's not even a contest. Having said that, i've been to a few dyno's (no dyno jets) and i'm not as high as you but as you describe your m3 runs and that you are neck in neck, you couldn't be making the power you describe. (and yes i did see the dyno sheets)