[OneFastE92]

Did he install a new clutch fork and throwout bearing? He might have put the throwout bearing in the wrong position, making it longer, thus holding the clutch open when the pedal is out.

[dzenno]

Sorry for off topic but OneFaste92, your 6 puck clutch, it's a sprung one not unsprung right? I have the same...they dont carry unsprung...

Are you using your stock fly with it? How do you like it?

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by packinDSS

seriously? We should pay money for a job and then pay to have him bleed the clutch, try something else, etc...... This was part of the job! How about we diagnose the problem and pay him to fix it twice? How about I just give him the money and he punches me in the face? This mechanic is an asshole dumb dumb who is using the non-oem BULLSHIT on a job he agreed to do. Really? You sound like a mechanic

LOL - you just got charged double. Nowhere did i say you pay him to do anything or to diagnose. You are simply reaching there. My issue is with statements like "call the police", "threaten to sue". Try that with a dealership vs an indipendent mechanic and see how far you get.

Fact is, if you TAKE a part to a mechanic or the dealership for that matter you are responsaible for the part and its operation not the dealer. Buy it from him and he is explicitly responsible for the part, its operation AND the labor. I think the mechanic has correctly offered to take everything apart and check, i believe he stated that if it was his error, he would fix it for free but if it was a clutch issue he would charge. If its a part problem its really not his fault and he is entitled to be paid for his time.

For a clutch replacement bleeding the hydraulics is not a requirment. You simply unbolt the slave and set it aside. If a clutch requires that to be done that would be additional charge or since it hardly takes time the mechanic could simply goodwill it. I would but if you threaten to sue or call the police i would tell you to FO.

You say "you sound like a mechanic" like its a bad thing. To me you sound like a typical "my shit don't stink bmw owner" with an entitlement problem.

Enjoy

Harry

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by OneFastE92

Did he install a new clutch fork and throwout bearing? He might have put the throwout bearing in the wrong position, making it longer, thus holding the clutch open when the pedal is out.

his clutch is not slipping, its not disengaging. ie What you are saying will cause the clutch to slip. It is virtually impossible to install the TOB wrong in this design and have it actually work.

Basically he does not have enough travel which could be because.
The disk is too thick OR
the flywheel is incorrectly machined OR
the slave cly cannot apply enough pressure due to fluid issues OR design issues in the hydraulic system.

You simply check the slave travel at full extension to see if its the same as stock, if its less you found the issue. If its the same the issue lies with the disk or the flywheel machining if indeed it was machined in the first place.


Look at this link

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=271606

You will notice that the disk rides at a different height (inset) than the pressure plate. If the height changed when / if the flywheel was machined it will prevent the clutch from working correctly. Not sure about the 335 but i do know that for a lot of other cars ACT specifies that this step height be machined differently. If the note regarding this was with the clutch and the mechanic did not follow the instructions then i would deem it to be installation error. If for some reason he installed the TOB backword the clutch will not even work at all. I think thats virtyually impossible.

Harry

[J5isalive]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

You say "you sound like a mechanic" like its a bad thing. To me you sound like a typical "my shit don't stink bmw owner" with an entitlement problem.

Enjoy

Harry

THANK YOU!!! Coming from a different car community I was in for some major culture shock when i entered the BMW arena... 'Call the police', give me a break, i'd love to see their face when they have to write a report for a clutch install, please.... Your response is spot on.

[itsbrokeagain]

Originally Posted by J5isalive

THANK YOU!!! Coming from a different car community I was in for some major culture shock when i entered the BMW arena... 'Call the police', give me a break, i'd love to see their face when they have to write a report for a clutch install, please.... Your response is spot on.

Culture shock is right. Have had a few customers come through the shop on their high horse. I do my best to act polite, do the work properly and get them on their way

All said and done though, if you bring a clutch to a shop to have them install it, it is on them to make sure it goes together right. It is very easy to flip the clutch disc backwards and put it in wrong. If you have a physical problem with the clutch not disengaging then really the proper way to do it is pull it apart and see whats wrong. If a factory part failed (the leverage pin or something) well then it needs to be decided whos fault it is because if the owner is supplying everything I need for the job, well then its his fault for not doing the research and giving me everything I need.

Now if it gets pulled apart and you find the pressure plate bolts werent torqued and the plate came loose or the disc was in backwards, then thats the mechanics fault...and he should do the right thing by fixing the situation for free. Just because you bring him the parts, if they are correct doesnt mean he can just throw the shit together and say 'pay me and goodbye'. If the parts werent the correct ones and he put it together anyway, well now thats just an incompetent mechanic. If they werent right he should have given you a call to find out what needs to be rectified.


The other thing is that the DM flywheel cannot be resurfaced. If it is glazed over, you throw it out and replace it...at the tune to $1000 bucks. I got one customer who was lucky..was doing reverse burnouts and what not, killed the stock clutch in 14k miles. I pulled it apart fearing the worst and the flywheel wasnt even fazed...looked brand new, not a mark on it. They will take some abuse before the rubber center breaks.

Worst case, if he does NOT want to look at the car, if you can manage to get it up here somehow I will look at it for you..but it wont be for free

[Former_Boosted_IS]

There should not be a real reason to bleed the slave since it just unbolts and re-bolts back it. With that said, if he didn't do the job correctly and disconnected the hydrolic line this is indeed possible. I would bleed the slave first yourself. That is easy. If that doesn't work, maybe it could be PP bolts may not be torqued properly or even possible the slave nipple is not seated properly on the release lever.

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

LOL - you just got charged double. Nowhere did i say you pay him to do anything or to diagnose. You are simply reaching there. My issue is with statements like "call the police", "threaten to sue". Try that with a dealership vs an indipendent mechanic and see how far you get.

Fact is, if you TAKE a part to a mechanic or the dealership for that matter you are responsaible for the part and its operation not the dealer. Buy it from him and he is explicitly responsible for the part, its operation AND the labor. I think the mechanic has correctly offered to take everything apart and check, i believe he stated that if it was his error, he would fix it for free but if it was a clutch issue he would charge. If its a part problem its really not his fault and he is entitled to be paid for his time.

For a clutch replacement bleeding the hydraulics is not a requirment. You simply unbolt the slave and set it aside. If a clutch requires that to be done that would be additional charge or since it hardly takes time the mechanic could simply goodwill it. I would but if you threaten to sue or call the police i would tell you to FO.


You say "you sound like a mechanic" like its a bad thing. To me you sound like a typical "my shit don't stink bmw owner" with an entitlement problem.

Enjoy

Harry

Originally Posted by packinDSS

seriously? We should pay money for a job and then pay to have him bleed the clutch, try something else, etc...... This was part of the job! How about we diagnose the problem and pay him to fix it twice? How about I just give him the money and he punches me in the face? This mechanic is an asshole dumb dumb who is using the non-oem BULLSHIT on a job he agreed to do. Really? You sound like a mechanic

I knew it. I could hear the bias. You would really defend this mehanic for giving the non-oem excuse only after something went wrong? I sold autoparts at a real parts store not an RS or Pep Boys while I was in college. I have first hand expierence dealing with mechanics. Most of them fell into the job because they weren't to bright and they liked cars. Forgive me for working hard and going to college so I don't have to turn wrenches for a living. Im sure its the same advice you will tell your kids. Sense of entitlement? No one is entitled to anything. But don't tell that to the have nots and do nots. You may be familiar with them. They tend to have excuses and justification as to why they didn't do well in life and it's usually the "haves" fault according to them.

[Bimmer This]

Originally Posted by Unique335i07

It's a independent shop and not done as a side job.

Everyone else thanks for the help. I'm gonna go back to the shop tomorrow and have him bleed the system and then test drive it around for about 20 miles or soo an see what happens. Hopefully it self adjust and if not he said he would take it apart and see everything is installed correctly and if he made a mistake that I would only have to pay for the first round and if not I would have to pay double the labor n he would put a stock clutch which I have to much horse power for. But thanks everyone for the help

Before you start pointing fingers, atleast get a second opinion at another shop.

[Cygnusx1]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

There is a reason why BMW mechanics become assholes and charge so much for installs. Except for 2 people on here lookig for solutions, the rest are looking to sue. Here is what i would do in order of importance.

Bleed the clutch
Confirm with ACT that there is no step height requirement for this car clutch combo
check the fulcrum point for wear.

ACT's are known to make thicker than stock discs and this issue is common with ACT in other cars too. Most other cars have adjustments to account for the change. Apparently this car does not. After doing everything listed above try to drive the car and break in the clutch. Most likely it will get much better with some wear on the disc.

Before jumping on the mech try and find a solution, usually works better that way. If i was the mech i would switch everything back to stock and tell you to go away and never come back if you threatened to sue.

Harry

+1 and +2

It's an aftermarket "generic" clutch, it will rarely perform/fit EXACTLY like the OEM part. Maybe he did put the disc on backwards, or installed a tight pilot bushing, but you can't assume it was his fault right off the bat. There are other variables in this equation. THINK.

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by Cygnusx1

+1 and +2

It's an aftermarket "generic" clutch, it will rarely perform/fit EXACTLY like the OEM part. Maybe he did put the disc on backwards, or installed a tight pilot bushing, but you can't assume it was his fault right off the bat. There are other variables in this equation. THINK.

No sh!t think. Tell that to the mechanic who is holding this guys car hostage and automatically ASSUMED and stated it was due to a "non-oem" part and thus not his fault. That’s my issue here and that is what set this problem into motion and thus caused the OP to post. All the focus is on the customer somehow being at fault or not handling this properly........ but the catalyst to the problem was the mechanic's typical knee jerk reaction that it was the non-oem part. READ THE POST and understand how we got to this point and you will see how the mechanic created this problem. Had he orginally stated that he would take it aprat and examine it etc etc we wouldn't be having this conversation.

FYI.........so now this mechanic is going to be the judge and jury as to whether the clutch is the problem or the installation and thus if it's billable? Why don't we have the wolf watch the hen house while we are at? The mechanic has already played the not his fault card.......Why did he have such a sudden change of thought here? could it be the possible notion of legal action? is he credibale anymore?

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by packinDSS

I knew it. I could hear the bias. You would really defend this mehanic for giving the non-oem excuse only after something went wrong? I sold autoparts at a real parts store not an RS or Pep Boys while I was in college. I have first hand expierence dealing with mechanics. Most of them fell into the job because they weren't to bright and they liked cars. Forgive me for working hard and going to college so I don't have to turn wrenches for a living. Im sure its the same advice you will tell your kids. Sense of entitlement? No one is entitled to anything. But don't tell that to the have nots and do nots. You may be familiar with them. They tend to have excuses and justification as to why they didn't do well in life and it's usually the "haves" fault according to them.

Ummn, What did you know ? I went to college too. I have a bachelors in engineering and a masters in business. Big deal its just college. I choose to to work as a network engineer and work on cars and i am happy doing so.

You are being an entitled SOB. Just because you went to college does not make you smarter. I know, i have been there done that. LOL. Look at your bias assuming people are not doing "well in life" etc etc because they turn wrenches etc. I know smarter mechanics and some very dumb mechanical engineers. College is quite overrated FYI

Enjoy your deluded life

Harry

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by Cygnusx1

+1 and +2

It's an aftermarket "generic" clutch, it will rarely perform/fit EXACTLY like the OEM part. Maybe he did put the disc on backwards, or installed a tight pilot bushing, but you can't assume it was his fault right off the bat. There are other variables in this equation. THINK.

its very hard to install the disk backwords. There is usually a sticker on the disk saying flywheel side. Any idiot worth his salt will never make that mistake. Note that the owner said the car is hard to get into gear. If the disk is backwords the car will NOT get into gear at all with the engine running and will certainly not move. That is not happening in this case

"A tight pilot bushing " Please explain how that will affect shifting

Harry

[Boostin335]

Originally Posted by packinDSS

I knew it. I could hear the bias. You would really defend this mehanic for giving the non-oem excuse only after something went wrong? I sold autoparts at a real parts store not an RS or Pep Boys while I was in college. I have first hand expierence dealing with mechanics. Most of them fell into the job because they weren't to bright and they liked cars. Forgive me for working hard and going to college so I don't have to turn wrenches for a living. Im sure its the same advice you will tell your kids. Sense of entitlement? No one is entitled to anything. But don't tell that to the have nots and do nots. You may be familiar with them. They tend to have excuses and justification as to why they didn't do well in life and it's usually the "haves" fault according to them.

you're joking right?

A "college degree" is nothing but an industry standard, and a pointless piece of Latin crap on paper.

Originally Posted by packinDSS

"I have first hand dealing with mechanics. Most of them fell into the job because they weren't to bright and they liked cars. Forgive me for working hard and going to college so I don't have to turn wrenches for a living."

college is as worthless in the job market as a high school degree 20 years ago. Yeah someone in college on average will yield more money right out of school vs a HS diploma/GED, keyword is right out of school and the average person -- but its not going to make or break your life... especially not in 2010... its about who you know, advanced degrees, and experience; but mainly who you know.

And here is a fun fact: the people who have worked on my cars,"wrenchers" to you I suppose, make a very good living $$$ wise, and get to actually do something they enjoy in life... I bet the "average" college degree 9-5er works in an industry/job that they don't even want to be in, but do it for the "average" paycheck. Bonus fact: 90% of the wrenchers I know, have a college degree

That post was so naive and narrow minded, it's exactly what is wrong with the world today.

[07'335iAlpine]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

There is a reason why BMW mechanics become assholes and charge so much for installs. Except for 2 people on here lookig for solutions, the rest are looking to sue. Here is what i would do in order of importance.

Bleed the clutch
Confirm with ACT that there is no step height requirement for this car clutch combo
check the fulcrum point for wear.

ACT's are known to make thicker than stock discs and this issue is common with ACT in other cars too. Most other cars have adjustments to account for the change. Apparently this car does not. After doing everything listed above try to drive the car and break in the clutch. Most likely it will get much better with some wear on the disc.


Before jumping on the mech try and find a solution, usually works better that way. If i was the mech i would switch everything back to stock and tell you to go away and never come back if you threatened to sue.

Harry

This im sorry to say is so dumb. this asshole mechanic should be sued, if you take the job it should be b/c he already knew he was competent enough to install it. Blaming the clutch is just plain fucking dumb. if he never had installed one in our application of cars he should have never touched it. There was no need to use your car as a guinea pig to see if he could install it properly. and if he did so knowingly he should be more than willing to correct the problem. The work should have been done right the first time around, and you shouldn't be paying b/c it was done improperly. for that you could have just fucked it up yourself. and payed for it then. im sure thats why you took to it mechanic. as im sure you trusted he was competent enough to do the install correctly. My opinion is you should bend him over and teach him a lesson: Don't do installs that you have no idea of doing! Maybe next time he'll try it on his BMW first.

Sorry Harry

[shifterboy45]

Originally Posted by packinDSS

I knew it. I could hear the bias. You would really defend this mehanic for giving the non-oem excuse only after something went wrong? I sold autoparts at a real parts store not an RS or Pep Boys while I was in college. I have first hand expierence dealing with mechanics. Most of them fell into the job because they weren't to bright and they liked cars. Forgive me for working hard and going to college so I don't have to turn wrenches for a living. Im sure its the same advice you will tell your kids. Sense of entitlement? No one is entitled to anything. But don't tell that to the have nots and do nots. You may be familiar with them. They tend to have excuses and justification as to why they didn't do well in life and it's usually the "haves" fault according to them.

I should be offended, but im not...

this is my chosen profession and i am good at it. There are techs that chose to what they do, and do well at it -- because its not the job it the principle. we make cars do things that other people only dream of... does that make me less of a person or less obligated to the truth.

there are others that give the automotive field a bad name, but isnt that true of other fields of endeavor? but be sensible..

Give up the mentality of the '70-'80 and realize what you are really angry about, there is someone out that can do a job that you wished you could do, but are unwilling to pay the cost.

for the educational portion of your statement, I was an instructor at a local auto training corp. Management was in dire straights to provide a training program for the new CCC and C3 computer systems that GM was bringing out on their cars. they had hired two other guys with Masters in Engineering to run the show -- but they could not build a cirriculum to suit the electronics just released. i had field experience and training in k/l bosch Jetronics and current work experience with GM's electronics. I was offered the task and pay that the other guys were offered if i could build the program, and i did. saved their hides as the semester rotation was about to begin. the course held up until they went out of business.. does my not finishing college (which i intend to do) make me stupid of less worthy of credit when it due? does it automatically make me a corrupt individual? there is more corruption in higher places, but hell that what the "bail out" is for right ????

anyone wanna call the cops and file a lawsuit -- tell 'em to meet me in downtown NYC @ Wall Street.. cuz i just got robbed

no offense against any resident brokers

[e93WhiteonRed]

PackinDSS = I'm sitting here pretty shocked. That's a pretty low class, uneducated comment and theory.

How about we post that comment for all to see and start a thread about how much of an a$$ PackinDSS is?

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by 07'335iAlpine

This im sorry to say is so dumb. this asshole mechanic should be sued, if you take the job it should be b/c he already knew he was competent enough to install it. Blaming the clutch is just plain fucking dumb. if he never had installed one in our application of cars he should have never touched it. There was no need to use your car as a guinea pig to see if he could install it properly. and if he did so knowingly he should be more than willing to correct the problem. The work should have been done right the first time around, and you shouldn't be paying b/c it was done improperly. for that you could have just fucked it up yourself. and payed for it then. im sure thats why you took to it mechanic. as im sure you trusted he was competent enough to do the install correctly. My opinion is you should bend him over and teach him a lesson: Don't do installs that you have no idea of doing! Maybe next time he'll try it on his BMW first.

Sorry Harry

True, if i was in his place i would not have taken the job BUT the practical solution for the op is not to threaten but to try and come up with an equitable solution, based on his subsequent posts it appears that he has done just that and kudos to him for doing just that. Threatening to sue and following up on it will cost the op more time and money abd in the end its not the logical choice.

Further who is to say the problem is not the clutch ? Its unlikely yes but not fact. This is the main reason i would get an install done from a specialist and buy the part from them rather than take it to a general mechanic. This true in every field not just cars. Yes you might pay a bit more but it will get done right AND if everything is bought fro. One suurce they are responsible.

Harry

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by e93WhiteonRed

PackinDSS = I'm sitting here pretty shocked. That's a pretty low class, uneducated comment and theory.

How about we post that comment for all to see and start a thread about how much of an a$$ PackinDSS is?

LOL

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by 07'335iAlpine

This im sorry to say is so dumb. this asshole mechanic should be sued, if you take the job it should be b/c he already knew he was competent enough to install it. Blaming the clutch is just plain fucking dumb. if he never had installed one in our application of cars he should have never touched it. There was no need to use your car as a guinea pig to see if he could install it properly. and if he did so knowingly he should be more than willing to correct the problem. The work should have been done right the first time around, and you shouldn't be paying b/c it was done improperly. for that you could have just fucked it up yourself. and payed for it then. im sure thats why you took to it mechanic. as im sure you trusted he was competent enough to do the install correctly. My opinion is you should bend him over and teach him a lesson: Don't do installs that you have no idea of doing! Maybe next time he'll try it on his BMW first.

Sorry Harry

Ditto. But there are too many Mechanics in this thread drowning out our voices.

[packinDSS]

I'm done posting in this thread. My future silence to comments should not be taken as agreement or disagreement.

UNSUBSCRIBED. Good day.

[Cygnusx1]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

its very hard to install the disk backwords. There is usually a sticker on the disk saying flywheel side. Any idiot worth his salt will never make that mistake. Note that the owner said the car is hard to get into gear. If the disk is backwords the car will NOT get into gear at all with the engine running and will certainly not move. That is not happening in this case

"A tight pilot bushing " Please explain how that will affect shifting

Harry

Harry,
When you step on the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch surfaces, the input shaft and countershafts are free to spin at their own speeds. Being free, the dogs of the synchros are able to match speeds and mesh into the next gear. If the pilot bushing is tight, the input shaft will continue to spin with engine speed, similar to having a dragging clutch disc. The synchros will have a tough or impossible time matching speeds of the counter and input shafts, and shifting gears will result in grinding, or require excessive pressure on the stick.

Anyhow thats the basics of it.

BTW somewhere back a few years ago ACT did some pressure plate redesigns and certain production run discs DO NOT work with certain production run plates (due to an interference fit of the center section) even though they SHOULD be compatible going only by the part numbers. Ask me how I know.

So anyhow, 100% sure that his engine is not decoupling from the input shaft. Why?

Because of any of these:
Slave not stroking enough.
Tight pilot bush.
Clutch disc too thick.
disc interfering with pressure plate or flywheel

Sorry if I pissed anyone off. People are strange. Mechanics and scholars are people too.