[obLu]

porsche = even the boxster S is rare in most areas outside of CA and Fl, let alone higher end models

Err .... not so much.

You ever been in a boxster cockpit? The quality of materials is awful. You're supposed to over look that because of the stellar handling.

[mkaresh]

I think it's safe to say they're not making that margin on the Boxster.

But I think it's also safe to say that the manufacturing cost on a 911 isn't much higher than that on a Boxster. That's your profit center.

Also the options. Check out Porsche options prices.

[DFW_M]

and Ford makes...hmmm...about -$20k per car...

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by dr325i

and Ford makes...hmmm...about -$20k per car...

I really doubt that. Ford has one of the highest profit margins. Unlike Toyota and Honda, Ford can take $7000 off a vehicle and still make a profit.

[TommyBahama]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

I really doubt that. Ford has one of the highest profit margins. Unlike Toyota and Honda, Ford can take $7000 off a vehicle and still make a profit.

they posted a 12billion dollar loss this year.

if they sold 600,000 cars it would come out to a -20k per car.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by TommyBahama

they posted a 12billion dollar loss this year.

if they sold 600,000 cars it would come out to a -20k per car.

If this is new info then I stand corrected. Perhaps I should have mentioned that my statement is based on info from a few years back.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

If this is new info then I stand corrected. Perhaps I should have mentioned that my statement is based on info from a few years back.

New info...they had losses in billions in last who knows how many years. Same for GM...
I just don't understand how and why are still in business...

Or, why they pay their CEOs bonuses at all???

[TommyBahama]

Originally Posted by dr325i

New info...they had losses in billions in last who knows how many years. Same for GM...
I just don't understand how and why are still in business...

Or, why they pay their CEOs bonuses at all???

up until recently Ford was run by a guy name Ford so i think he could give himself any bonus he wanted.

while GM is in serious trouble they still are doing better than ford.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by TommyBahama

up until recently Ford was run by a guy name Ford so i think he could give himself any bonus he wanted.

while GM is in serious trouble they still are doing better than ford.

Actually, the public companies have boards to prevent that... and the board decides what the CEO gets...he can be Ford or Gates...

[mkaresh]

The GM and Ford losses are both mostly composed of the cost of buying current employees out. They're one-time charges, not operating losses.

Within these charnges they "only" lost a couple billion.

[TommyBahama]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Actually, the public companies have boards to prevent that... and the board decides what the CEO gets...he can be Ford or Gates...

the board just represents the shareholders. the Ford family is still one of if not the largest shareholder.

same goes with Gates.

and the board tends to be friends of the CEO not enemies. thats what got Enron in trouble.

[master_jcp]

But not in the USA! There they don`t get so much. They get sao much in germany.

[hl0m4n]

stupid question but this $23k the sales person makes? if so if a turbo is $120,000. the real value of the car is $100k minus the 20k profit?

[achien]

CAs from Toyota maintains they only make $100 per car. Do you believe them?

[BMWE90]

Originally Posted by achien

CAs from Toyota maintains they only make $100 per car. Do you believe them?

It's actually true (for the most part). Models such as Camry and Corolla are sold at or below invoice almost all the time so the CAs only get minis ($75-125- usually $100).

Here's what usually happens- you sell a Sienna for $1000 over invoice ( like this happens a lot), they take $350 off for the pack and then you get 23% of whatever is left over (in this case $650). So basically you get about $160. Im only using this as an example- cus 9/10 Toyotas sold are near, at or below invoice.

[voltron1011]

The reason is simple: Cayenne

Before the Cayenne, they were probably not making that much per model, now they've entered a new realm.

[Crea]

porsche is the most profitable car maker in the world...w/ even only 5 model

[mkaaes]

Here in Seattle, Bellevue and so on, BMW's M-B's and even Porsches are dime a dozen. But I'd still rather have my BMW over either of the other 2 companies. If anyone here has ever seen a Porsche option list, it's crazy. In theory the Cayman starts at around 55 to 60k, but once you add in some basic options it's already over 70k. And it is true that the Porsche SUV co-designed with VW literally saved their company.

[T Bone]

Porsche, historically, has carved out a niche of buyers who are willing to pay lots of money for an updated 1930's beetle (aka 911). So it doesn't surprise me that they are making $28,000 per car....good for them, they are pricing to the market.

If I were a shareholder, I would love to own BMW stock anyday of the week.

While BMW make only "make" $3200, they number of cars BMW sells makes Porsche's volumes look like mice nuts. Compared to other full range car companies, BMW earns more per car and is more profitable.

If VAG doesn't smarten up and do something about the 911's antiquated layout, the Audi R8 and the Twin Turbo variant next year is going to cut into Porsche's cash cow.

Wake up Porsche.

[younghov85]

I mean they are low-key, but have the finest quality, best engineering as well as very competitive prices.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by T Bone

Porsche, historically, has carved out a niche of buyers who are willing to pay lots of money for an updated 1930's beetle (aka 911).

This argument had some validity for the 356 - not the 911.

As for Porsche's profit margins - Porsche came back and said a lot of their profits came from non-car related maneuvering, so the number was adjusted; turns out they only make $22,000/car.

The kicker is that the profit comes from dramatically improved manufacturing methods. Porsche isn't charging a lot more for their cars than they used to, they had some Japanese analysts come in and show them how to cut production costs. Thanks to improved inventory control and engineering their cars to share platforms and parts, they've got things set-up so that someone paying $90k for a 911 is getting getting little more than a $50k Boxster with the engine moved back a few inches. The profitability is built right in!

The ironic part is Porsche CEO Wendelin Weideking's goal is for Porsche to become the next... BMW. He admires the way (at the time) BMW had a diverse line-up across a broad range, but shared lots of parts. Porsche's brushes with bankruptcy were the result of too narrow a market focus and poor cost controls - they've spent the last decade working on both.

[T Bone]

Originally Posted by epbrown

This argument had some validity for the 356 - not the 911.

As for Porsche's profit margins - Porsche came back and said a lot of their profits came from non-car related maneuvering, so the number was adjusted; turns out they only make $22,000/car.

The kicker is that the profit comes from dramatically improved manufacturing methods. Porsche isn't charging a lot more for their cars than they used to, they had some Japanese analysts come in and show them how to cut production costs. Thanks to improved inventory control and engineering their cars to share platforms and parts, they've got things set-up so that someone paying $90k for a 911 is getting getting little more than a $50k Boxster with the engine moved back a few inches. The profitability is built right in!

The ironic part is Porsche CEO Wendelin Weideking's goal is for Porsche to become the next... BMW. He admires the way (at the time) BMW had a diverse line-up across a broad range, but shared lots of parts. Porsche's brushes with bankruptcy were the result of too narrow a market focus and poor cost controls - they've spent the last decade working on both.

The story was Toyota came to the Porsche factory with a Sawzall an cut the shelves so Porsche couldn't keep much inventory and had to adopt a JIT manufacturing strategy.

In addition to killing off the 928 / 968 to focus on "modernizing" the 911 in the form of the 996 and the Boxster. The 996 and Boxster unashamedly shared many components. Good for the bottom line but horrible for making the 996 sexy.

Hopefully the 997 TT will be the last of the rear engine cars. Porsche needs to wake up and smell the competition.

This competition was all brought on by Ferdinand Piech who make the Audi R8 happen. Piech is also married to Ferry Porsche's daughter.....strange family ties in VAG.