[Clap135]

I simply don't agree with you. You will always knock first on a mix vs a straight meth. Your set up might be effficient enough to allow a mix. Also I don't log 1 gear pulls because that is not how I floore my car.

There are tons of people on here who share the same opinion as I do.
As for meth not making it to the combustion chamber, you can't be serious. If meth didn't make it to hte chamber, there would no octane increase and I wouldn't be able to run 17psi with full timing.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Clap135

I simply don't agree with you. You will always knock first on a mix vs a straight meth. Your set up might be effficient enough to allow a mix. Also I don't log 1 gear pulls because that is not how I floore my car.

There are tons of people on here who share the same opinion as I do.
As for meth not making it to the combustion chamber, you can't be serious. If meth didn't make it to hte chamber, there would no octane increase and I wouldn't be able to run 17psi with full timing.

Lol. Of course methanol makes it to the combustion chamber. I am speaking strictly about the phase of the element. The phase change is where the heat is removed. From an octane standpoint, I don't think you car cares if it is liquid or vapor methanol.

[onefastman]

It makes it but not in liquid form so it doesnt cool the combustion chamber

Also my car runs much stronger on 100% as opposed to 90/10


Terry also said if I am going for power then I want to run 100%


Another reason meth kit companies say 50/50 is because 100% can eat the seals

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by onefastman

It makes it but not in liquid form so it doesnt cool the combustion chamber

Also my car runs much stronger on 100% as opposed to 90/10


Terry also said if I am going for power then I want to run 100%


Another reason meth kit companies say 50/50 is because 100% can eat the seals

Meth companies also tell you 50/50 also for safety purposes...50/50 mix is far less flammable period

[ar design]

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Meth companies also tell you 50/50 also for safety purposes...50/50 mix is far less flammable period

And running more than 50/50 without proper tuning can be extremely detrimental. So, to avoid knuckleheads running pure meth without tuning, they say 50/50......

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by onefastman

It makes it but not in liquid form so it doesnt cool the combustion chamber

Also my car runs much stronger on 100% as opposed to 90/10


Terry also said if I am going for power then I want to run 100%


Another reason meth kit companies say 50/50 is because 100% can eat the seals

Have you tested your car with identical quantities of methanol? The problem is that you guys are changing the mix and using the exact same nozzle size. Example, 50/50 with a nozzle that flows 700 ml/min. That means you are flowing 350 ml/min of water and 350 ml/min of methanol. Now, lets use your mixture of 90/10, then you are flowing 630 ml/min of methanol and 70 ml/min of water. By going to 100% methanol you are increasing the quantity of methanol flowing which should add power until you reach your max timing. The way to test this is to run 700 ml/min of methanol at 100% mixture, then 700 ml/min of methanol and lets say 150 ml/min of water. That way you keep the methanol content the same.

I have tested this exact thing and what I have found is at a certain methanol flow level on my car, the timing is maxed. At that point adding more methanol did nothing. I then adjusted my nozzle size and methanol/water contents to allow about 200-250 ml/min of water in addition to the methanol content my car likes. What I found is no loss in power whatsoever and lower EGTs.

[Clap135]

So why does my car thrown low egt codes in the winter using straight meth, but not while using a mix?

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Clap135

So why does my car thrown low egt codes in the winter using straight meth, but not while using a mix?

Clap, without an accurate EGT probe in your car it would be pure speculation on my part.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

Clap, without an accurate EGT probe in your car it would be pure speculation on my part.

I understand that, however you mentioned that you added enough meth till your timing was maxed, then added additional water and your egts dropped? I am willing to be you would see the same result if you simply sprayed more meth. I have done alot of research on meth/water injections and it seems like the entire community is split however there is one fact that everyone agrees on, more meth, more power....hence I say, water is useless. Water lowers EGTs which help with knock, if running straight meth, doesnt cause knocks, EGTS can't by sky high.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by onefastman

It makes it but not in liquid form so it doesnt cool the combustion chamber

Also my car runs much stronger on 100% as opposed to 90/10


Terry also said if I am going for power then I want to run 100%


Another reason meth kit companies say 50/50 is because 100% can eat the seals

I ripped on coolingmist Dave for this bs. Most methanol injection parts are "Chemically compatible with 100% methanol"

coolingmist flow sensor can't handle 100% methanol as many CMGS owners can attest to, 70/30 is the most. He went off and bashed other vendors parts instead of attempting to redesign or address a flow sensor that can't handle 100% meth. I like their nozzles, their other parts? Not so much.

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Clap135

I understand that, however you mentioned that you added enough meth till your timing was maxed, then added additional water and your egts dropped? I am willing to be you would see the same result if you simply sprayed more meth. I have done alot of research on meth/water injections and it seems like the entire community is split however there is one fact that everyone agrees on, more meth, more power....hence I say, water is useless. Water lowers EGTs which help with knock, if running straight meth, doesnt cause knocks, EGTS can't by sky high.

From a thermodynamics standpoint, you will always remove more heat period if you have water in your mixture as opposed to straight methanol. Methanol takes about 1100 kJ/kg to vaporize and water takes 2257 kJ/kg to vaporize. That is literally more than 2 times the heat removed when water vaporizes versus methanol vaporizing.

Again, I am simply saying each fluid serves a purpose. Octane enhancement is achieved by methanol and heat removal is far superior with water. You suggest spraying more methanol to lower your EGTs, but that is an ineffective way to accomplish the goal. You will lower EGTs the same with half the quantity of water because of its far superior thermodynamic properties versus methanol.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

From a thermodynamics standpoint, you will always remove more heat period if you have water in your mixture as opposed to straight methanol. Methanol takes about 1100 kJ/kg to vaporize and water takes 2257 kJ/kg to vaporize. That is literally more than 2 times the heat removed when water vaporizes versus methanol vaporizing.

Again, I am simply saying each fluid serves a purpose. Octane enhancement is achieved by methanol and heat removal is far superior with water. You suggest spraying more methanol to lower your EGTs, but that is an ineffective way to accomplish the goal. You will lower EGTs the same with half the quantity of water because of its far superior thermodynamic properties versus methanol.

Once again, i understand that. In order for me to max out timing on 17psi I have to run straight or very close to straight meth. If I do a mix 66/33 or whatever you suggest, I would need to be running something along a m14 nozzle, which I wont be because I dont see the point of spraying that much.
EGTs are not a problem for me at my level, if they were I would be knocking, which I am not. The primary purpose of meth injection is to resist knock. do10/17psi/meth, give me no knock. Adding water to that mixture will lowever the effictive octane and make my car knock. Like state many times, if you are going for power on your set up, meth is the way to go. Only reason you arnt knocking, is because you are not making the best power your set up can make. Once you starting pushing things more you will need to up your meth mixture. Don't confuse this with me saying you arn't making power. I am simply saying your max power potential, whatever that may be, will be achieved with a higher meth mixture.

[Spoolin335]

I usually completely take my tune out in the winter. Why do you need all that power when you will never get traction to use it anyway?

[cn555ic]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Once again, i understand that. In order for me to max out timing on 17psi I have to run straight or very close to straight meth. If I do a mix 66/33 or whatever you suggest, I would need to be running something along a m14 nozzle, which I wont be because I dont see the point of spraying that much.
EGTs are not a problem for me at my level, if they were I would be knocking, which I am not. The primary purpose of meth injection is to resist knock. do10/17psi/meth, give me no knock. Adding water to that mixture will lowever the effictive octane and make my car knock. Like state many times, if you are going for power on your set up, meth is the way to go. Only reason you arnt knocking, is because you are not making the best power your set up can make. Once you starting pushing things more you will need to up your meth mixture. Don't confuse this with me saying you arn't making power. I am simply saying your max power potential, whatever that may be, will be achieved with a higher meth mixture.

With all his mods on his car, to this day I have no idea why he is still running the JB tune which has no CPS offsetting. He usually runs the best out there and I have asked him a million times why not try the Procede out!! With his setup I feel he is not running his car to it's potential and the need for water may be needed for his tune. Who knows, but Clap I am with you as Meth/water ratios!

[Former_Boosted_IS]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Once again, i understand that. In order for me to max out timing on 17psi I have to run straight or very close to straight meth. If I do a mix 66/33 or whatever you suggest, I would need to be running something along a m14 nozzle, which I wont be because I dont see the point of spraying that much.
EGTs are not a problem for me at my level, if they were I would be knocking, which I am not. The primary purpose of meth injection is to resist knock. do10/17psi/meth, give me no knock. Adding water to that mixture will lowever the effictive octane and make my car knock. Like state many times, if you are going for power on your set up, meth is the way to go. Only reason you arnt knocking, is because you are not making the best power your set up can make. Once you starting pushing things more you will need to up your meth mixture. Don't confuse this with me saying you arn't making power. I am simply saying your max power potential, whatever that may be, will be achieved with a higher meth mixture.

Now that is a better answer. LOL. If you do some testing with some of the mixtures, than I suggest you will conclude what I have. Sounds like you are flowing about 700 ml/min of methanol (100% methanol) to max out your timing at 17 psi? Out of curiousity, where is your location for your nozzle?

I placed my nozzle in the STETT location which is about 12" off the throttle body. I am injecting a 66/33 fluid on a SP 375 ml/min nozzle netting 475 ml/min and 225 ml/min of water to maximize my timing and that netted a delta of 156 rwhp on a Mustang. I had no choice but to adjust my mix since I run nitrous and wanted to flow more fluid, so now I am 85/15 on the bottle with two SP 375 ml/min nozzles. That results in 1150 ml/min of methanol and 250 ml/min of water. Notice, I am aiming for about 250 ml/min of water. That netted me a delta of 235 rwhp on a Mustang with 14 degrees of advance at redline.

Regardless, I think you do understand what I am saying now. Water has distinctly advantageous thermodynamic properties. To cool, water is the winner. To maximize octane enhancement, methanol is the winner. Some careful calculations can give help you take advantage of both.

One point you do make that is very valid, the higher boost you go the more EGTs become a major war on the stock housing. It will be interesting to see what the clipped wheels and CHRA upgrade EGT data looks like as they increase boost. If indeed the housing is the limitation, then the EGT data should speak volumes here.

[Clap135]

I had flow sensor issues about two weeks ago and did a bunch of tests to slowly weed out potential problems. (ended up being the flow sensor bearing). My nozzle is located on the chargepipe/cold side coupler. Previous I had a nozzle between the map sensor and throttle body, but had better results when I moved it further away from the throttle body, which pretty much went against all the other cars I ran meth on. My DO10 at 250psi gets me right around 900ml/min when it doesnt have to combat pressure in the charge pipe. While floored I flow right around 750ish.

[Quizarate]

My biggest concern with the meth / water mix is having it freeze. I'm up in Maine a lot during the winter and it can get down to -20 F quite often. I just don't want the mixture freezing in the container and hose, so I'm going 70/30.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

edit woops nevermind didnt see 2nd page lol

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Quizarate

My biggest concern with the meth / water mix is having it freeze. I'm up in Maine a lot during the winter and it can get down to -20 F quite often. I just don't want the mixture freezing in the container and hose, so I'm going 70/30.

windshield washer fluid is about 30% methanol and it's rated to -20 not to freeze. As long as you have a 50/50 mix at the bare minimum, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

[bobbers114]

the basis behind using methanol/water injection is to maximize performance.
having the proper mix is the better balance between all-out power and safety.
do you not find it odd to preach about using meth as a "bandaid" but say your using it for 100% octane purposes? is that not a bandaid for octane?
why not add some racefuel, use a mix, and get the best of both worlds?

if your playing with 17/18psi, i think your at the level in which you need to monitor EGT, espcially if running through restrictive stock hardware

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by bobbers114

the basis behind using methanol/water injection is to maximize performance.
having the proper mix is the better balance between all-out power and safety.
do you not find it odd to preach about using meth as a "bandaid" but say your using it for 100% octane purposes? is that not a bandaid for octane?
why not add some racefuel, use a mix, and get the best of both worlds?

if your playing with 17/18psi, i think your at the level in which you need to monitor EGT, espcially if running through restrictive stock hardware

If the car is not knocking, then EGT's should be in check. IIRC.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Thats nice, log your car, and report back. You will ALWAYS make more power on meth, ALWAYS
Water meth compaines suggesting adding water, for one reason, saftey. They do not want to be held responsible.

Depends what tune you are running.