[I335]

Originally Posted by Brey335i

I'm sorry, but if you have never had the DTC light up on you, then you really shouldn't be giving answers here. The OP asked how it would be on the street, I light up the DTC every time I accelerate hard on really sticky tires. I don't really understand how that doesn't apply to the street?

I assumed that by "street" he was referring to driving normally (i.e. legally). If you're seeing DTC lights on a regular basis you're driving very aggressively. I see DTC lights only occasionally when the roads are wet - almost never in the dry when I'm driving normally and legally which is most of the time. As I noted, the OP didn't clarify his driving style in his original post. If he sees the DTC lights as often as you do then I agree, he'd probably appreciate an LSD. If you drive legally 95% of the time I'm assuming you won't appreciate an LSD nearly as much as someone who drives aggressively most of the time. Please note that I didn't say anything about condoning or not condoning the way people drive - I really don't care. I'm just pointing out the importance of driving style when considering an LSD. If you drive legally most of the time I doubt it would be worth the investment.

[MKE_M3]

I see the DTC lights under full throttle accelleration in first or second gears. Even before my tune the DTC got in the way. I'm waiting for my wavetrac right now. All in I expect it to cost about $1800 (I have a bolted diff). I've driven multiple rear drive cars, some with and some with out LSD. LSD makes an incredible differance in driving dynamics.

My recomendation:
1) Tune (I chose Procede due to reputation, autotuning, and power)
2) Intercooler/Oilcooler (you need to keep temps down any way possible to have the power be as safe as possible)
3) LSD

That is exactly what I did. I also have Dinan stage 1 suspension ordered, the M-tech steering wheel(awesome) lighter 18" wheels (Breyton GTS-R, 10lbs lighter than stock per wheel!!!), and the shift knob from the 2011 335is (also awesome!!! Really improved shift feel due to being shorter and more ergonomic)

Everyone has differant opinions, I wanted a car that was more "sporty" in every way than stock, most importantly with how how fun it is to drive and I think I hit the nail on the head with mods perfectly!!!

[loweredram]

I was just talking to a guy who frequently tracks his 335. He was saying that suspension and tires setup correctly would work just as good as an LSD. When he explained it it did make since if the car is more balanced and flat going thru a turn and you keep (or attempt to keep) the car al level as possible then you dont have the traction break and thus the spinning wheel. I'm still going to get the wave trac but I see his point in that there are other factors to consider. Thanks I've learned some things from your responses.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Ideally, if we have absolutely equal amount of traction on both wheels, and if the car is accelerating straight, and we have equal length drive shafts, both wheels will spin equally even with an open diff. If you read his description, he makes it sound like only 1 wheel is driving the car, which is incorrect!

It is because we do not have ideal conditions that we get into a situations where one wheel looses traction before the other and then more torque is being sent to the wheel with less friction. It is in those situations only that an LSD is helpful.

In reality, there is always one wheel that has less traction than the other. When that wheel breaks traction, it spins freely. Thus, no power can be transferred to the other wheel with an open diff. The wheel without traction spins at double the desired speed, while the other one effectively stops and there is no power transfer at all. This is the case when one wheel is on ice, for example.

That means, with an open diff, you effectively can stress traction only up to the point where the wheel with least traction breaks lose. The other wheel does not help at all... and that is what the derogative term "1-wheel-drive" really means.

Only double the power of the wheel with least traction can be used with an open diff. And that might be very little with bad road conditions and/or weight transfer in a turn...

With an ideal LSD, you get the sum of both maximum applicable forces. However, with a torsen-style diff like the Quaife, you cannot transfer power if no force can be applied at all on one wheel (like when one wheel is in mid-air during a turn). You'd need a clutch-type diff for that type of driving.

From my own experience, I can tell that a torsen type differential makes a huge difference already in everyday driving. Even my wife noticed it.

[rbaldwin28]

Funny how many people with out a LSD know so much about them. If you are not hitting the limit of the cars ability to hold the road don't bother. You will not even notice the lsd during normal legal street driving. Now if you drive agressively and hate the way the car feels comming out of turns then you will know you need an LSD. If you need to ask you probably don't need one.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by rbaldwin28

Funny how many people with out a LSD know so much about them. If you are not hitting the limit of the cars ability to hold the road don't bother. You will not even notice the lsd during normal legal street driving. Now if you drive agressively and hate the way the car feels comming out of turns then you will know you need an LSD. If you need to ask you probably don't need one.

Guess what, the people that are about to buy them...like me, are probably doing the MOST research on them right now. I like to take a qualitative response pool from forum members like yourself and do my own research and with all the info. I gathered, make my decision. So do you think that someone who has and LSD makes them more informed about an LSD? If so, I believe you are wrong. You know a lot about pussy right? Do you have one?

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by I335

If you're seeing DTC lights on a regular basis you're driving very aggressively.

There is no acceleration limit.

Accelerating hard is not aggressive driving.

You may be thinking of reckless driving, for which qualifications include:
- deliberate loss of traction (eg. spinning wheels)
- driving in a manner which causes excessive tyre noise

An LSD can actually help you stay legal by raising your max acceleration before you break traction.

-scheherazade

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

There is no acceleration limit.

Accelerating hard is not aggressive driving.

You may be thinking of reckless driving, for which qualifications include:
- deliberate loss of traction (eg. spinning wheels)
- driving in a manner which causes excessive tyre noise

An LSD can actually help you stay legal by raising your max acceleration before you break traction.

-scheherazade

+1

[I335]

Originally Posted by scheherazade

There is no acceleration limit.

Accelerating hard is not aggressive driving.

You may be thinking of reckless driving, for which qualifications include:
- deliberate loss of traction (eg. spinning wheels)
- driving in a manner which causes excessive tyre noise

An LSD can actually help you stay legal by raising your max acceleration before you break traction.

-scheherazade

I hear what you're saying, sorta, and in fact, I personally agree with you. That said, I'm not sure the boys in blue would agree. It's not at all unusual for someone to get pulled over and ticketed for accelerating aggressively and the police can label that as racing or driving recklessly and probably a few other terms we don't agree with. If you do a 4.6 second 0-60 in front of a cop, you may not be spinning your wheels or making excessive tire noise but there's a good chance he'll pull you over. That's all I'm saying...

[I335]

What if the original question was rephrased like this...

Driving the way you SHOULD drive with 2 infants in the car along with their great-grandmother and a cop tailgating you, will you notice the benefits of an LSD?

[scheherazade]

Originally Posted by I335

What if the original question was rephrased like this...

Driving the way you SHOULD drive with 2 infants in the car along with their great-grandmother and a cop tailgating you, will you notice the benefits of an LSD?

No.

-scheherazade

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by I335

What if the original question was rephrased like this...

Driving the way you SHOULD drive with 2 infants in the car along with their great-grandmother and a cop tailgating you, will you notice the benefits of an LSD?

LOL

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by loweredram

I was just talking to a guy who frequently tracks his 335. He was saying that suspension and tires setup correctly would work just as good as an LSD. When he explained it it did make since if the car is more balanced and flat going thru a turn and you keep (or attempt to keep) the car al level as possible then you dont have the traction break and thus the spinning wheel. I'm still going to get the wave trac but I see his point in that there are other factors to consider. Thanks I've learned some things from your responses.

I first installed my KW clubsport with ARB, had it professionally set-up, camber, toe, etc, and used very sticky tires. Dunlop Direzza 03G in 265 front and back. Was nice, but still coming out of corners the innerwheel lost traction and was limiting the acceleration out of the corner.
Then I installed a Drexler LSD (50/40 set-up) and what a difference! It is really no comparison. Next to the grip you also get control ability and predictability. The throttle helps to turn-in, instead of understeer I have a neutral so slightly oversteer, very nicely balanced and also working with DTC engaged.
Driving in the wet is also a new experience. So much more traction! It is really a joy to drive, but also much safer.
Drexler is a clutch like LSD (for the once who do not know) and it is noiseless as well.

[marcel b]

Originally Posted by I335

What if the original question was rephrased like this...

Driving the way you SHOULD drive with 2 infants in the car along with their great-grandmother and a cop tailgating you, will you notice the benefits of an LSD?

would you feel a difference between a 335i and a 320d driving like that?

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by marcel b

would you feel a difference between a 335i and a 320d driving like that?

Exactly. Whats the point of modding at all if you only wish to feel a difference under those conditions. I see what you are saying though, but i get christmas lights more than I would like to so this interests me.

[scottp999]

LSD is a great upgrade for spirited street driving.

1) You will add to the life of your rear brakes due to less traction control intervention.
2) You can power out of corners faster
3) You can accelerate faster in a straight line (because of better power distribution under heavy acceleration)
4) I also think it is a safety mod when you are pushing the car. The car becomes more predicatable than when you have an open diff.

One of the best mods I've done, and would say that Tune/Meth/LSD are my favorites.

[I335]

Originally Posted by WW330

Exactly. Whats the point of modding at all if you only wish to feel a difference under those conditions. I see what you are saying though, but i get christmas lights more than I would like to so this interests me.

I didn't say anything about wishing to feel a difference under these conditions, I just wanted to know if you would...

[I335]

...and by the way, I want one too...

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by loweredram

I was just talking to a guy who frequently tracks his 335. He was saying that suspension and tires setup correctly would work just as good as an LSD.

This is kind of silly. It will still be better with a limited slip.

[dlbrooks18]

I have the Quaife, and drive with nannies off all the time now, I noticed much improved traction with the LSD from hard acceleration..

[rbaldwin28]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Guess what, the people that are about to buy them...like me, are probably doing the MOST research on them right now. I like to take a qualitative response pool from forum members like yourself and do my own research and with all the info. I gathered, make my decision. So do you think that someone who has and LSD makes them more informed about an LSD? If so, I believe you are wrong. You know a lot about pussy right? Do you have one?

You can research as much as you want and it will not help you know how an LSD feels at all. So yea I think some one with an LSD is more qualified to explain how it drives on the road or track. If you are not sure if you need one you don't. I have seen many people say if they knew how a LSD made the car feel it would have been there first mod. Do you test drive a car before you buy it? I drive it to see how it feels.

[BrianMN]

I'm one of the guys that frequently tracks his car and doesn't have an LSD (yet....I'm forcing myself to save up for it, I've got the welded gear)

It is true that a properly set up car can take away much of the need for an LSD. I have tried different spring rates and dampening, proper sway bars (M sport)and ended up with an incredibly well balanced car. Add incredibly sticky tires and I VERY RARELY get ANY inside tire spin on corner exit. I don't agree that a car going thru a corner that is "Flat" is necessarily handling well. The right amount of body roll is desireable...so putting the biggest sway bar possible is not good.

Now, would I get faster times with an LSD? Sure, but not much. probably 1-1.5 seconds on a 2:00 course. If I had crappy and improper springs, dampeners and tires, maybe 3 seconds or more. The biggest difference will be in how the car feels...its' predictability and the act of actually pushing outside tire can be very noticeable.

I think one would notice an LSD more on the street than on the track...think of right hand corners from a stop (in the US). It's nearly impossible to accelerate hard in 1st or 2nd without the inside wheel spinning. It would really benefit spirited driving on the roads.