[Sniz]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Its not the same $$, you gotta compare apples to apples. I take the n54 at 30k and dump 15k into it and I will dust the s65 while saving money and its custom...which I like.

I like both of those ideas as well.

this thread is about the 1M, which as you pointed out earlier is an M but is not only based on the same engine as a 135 it is the same exact engine w a software tweak that i'm sure is less effective than a Procede.

unless they aren't telling us something about it.

my point still stands, this shouldnt be a M car, maybe a special 135, but not an M. M -> Motorsports.

[DefactoM6]

Originally Posted by Sniz

superior to what? Its all relative. Superior to a Porsche straight 6 making 400hp+.....no. Superior to an infiniti v6...yes.

Wow, the Porsche straight 6? Damn, that must be a really new and superior motor!







In all seriousness, I agree and disagree. If you're in there, upgrade the snails, cooling and fuel delivery. With that, maybe slightly different cams or a bit of headwork, the N54 could make a decent M motor.

And this isn't the first time that BMW has half-assed a motor in the M cars. What lineage does the S52 in your car trace itself to? Certainly not the ITB'd, solid lifter'd S50B3X in the euro cars...

Obviously the S52 can make some decent power now. But still, a bored+stroked M52 was never an M motor IMO...and I've owned them

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by igom3

Yeah, you can build a go kart and smoke Porsches, but you're still driving go kart my friend

Unless you have a turbo or a supercharger on that old m3...I believe you would be the one that is driving a go-kart. I crushed e46 m3's with just a tune.

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by DefactoM6

Wow, the Porsche straight 6? Damn, that must be a really new and superior motor!







In all seriousness, I agree and disagree. If you're in there, upgrade the snails, cooling and fuel delivery. With that, maybe slightly different cams or a bit of headwork, the N54 could make a decent M motor.

And this isn't the first time that BMW has half-assed a motor in the M cars. What lineage does the S52 in your car trace itself to? Certainly not the ITB'd, solid lifter'd S50B3X in the euro cars...

Obviously the S52 can make some decent power now. But still, a bored+stroked M52 was never an M motor IMO...and I've owned them

funny you brought up the s52, I was about to post that......same idea.

half assed by the M division.

[dlbrooks18]

Originally Posted by Sniz

I like both of those ideas as well.

this thread is about the 1M, which as you pointed out earlier is an M but is not only based on the same engine as a 135 it is the same exact engine w a software tweak that i'm sure is less effective than a Procede.

unless they aren't telling us something about it.

my point still stands, this shouldnt be a M car, maybe a special 135, but not an M. M -> Motorsports.

Totally disagree, the N54 was originally being developed for the current E9x platform until Benz decided to drop the V8 in the C63.. BMW's are going FI from here on out so that is the reality, and nothing wrong with that, especially seeing how all the fast E9x M's have superchargers.. the 1M comes with LSD, better cooling, track suspension and those deliciously wide fenders... throw a JB3 on it and you'll get mid 11's and 120mph traps, so what's your point??

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

Totally disagree, the N54 was originally being developed for the current E9x platform until Benz decided to drop the V8 in the C63.. BMW's are going FI from here on out so that is the reality, and nothing wrong with that, especially seeing how all the fast E9x M's have superchargers.. the 1M comes with LSD, better cooling, track suspension and those deliciously wide fenders... throw a JB3 on it and you'll get mid 11's and 120mph traps, so what's your point??

I agree, except for the part about the tune...go Procede!

[DefactoM6]

Originally Posted by Sniz

funny you brought up the s52, I was about to post that......same idea.

half assed by the M division.

Agreed.

And look at how kindly history has looked on the E36 M3. This may be in effect the same thing as what they did with the E36 M3, but that doesn't mean that it still won't be a great car, and that history will look quite favorably on them.

[A4rings]

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

Totally disagree, the N54 was originally being developed for the current E9x platform until Benz decided to drop the V8 in the C63.. BMW's are going FI from here on out so that is the reality, and nothing wrong with that, especially seeing how all the fast E9x M's have superchargers.. the 1M comes with LSD, better cooling, track suspension and those deliciously wide fenders... throw a JB3 on it and you'll get mid 11's and 120mph traps, so what's your point??

His point is that BMW should not have just used the same 4 year old n54 for a NEW M CAR. they could have at least increased the size of the turbos or changed some components in the head to allow for a higher redline or maybe lightened the internal components so that it could rev faster/easier, or even gave the car a more agressive camshaft. basically change something that existing 135i owner could not do very easily.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by A4rings

His point is that BMW should not have just used the same 4 year old n54 for a NEW M CAR. they could have at least increased the size of the turbos or changed some components in the head to allow for a higher redline or maybe lightened the internal components so that it could rev faster/easier, or even gave the car a more agressive camshaft. basically change something that existing 135i owner could not do very easily.

All they did was respond to the market. Very few N54 guys are doing any of this, so why would they think spend R&D time and all the extra money to do so? I think you guys are asking for the performance of porsche turbo while only paying for a BMW, performance and $ go hand in hand. Would you like this car to cost about $80k, because thats what you guys are asking for??

[dlbrooks18]

Originally Posted by A4rings

His point is that BMW should not have just used the same 4 year old n54 for a NEW M CAR. they could have at least increased the size of the turbos or changed some components in the head to allow for a higher redline or maybe lightened the internal components so that it could rev faster/easier, or even gave the car a more agressive camshaft. basically change something that existing 135i owner could not do very easily.

We all know that 4 years ago the N54 came way detuned from the factory, since it orig was going to be the E9x M powerplant, it's no secret that it's a 400hp motor when tuned, so BMW figures that's more than enough for this car, saves costs as well in R&D.. we'll see the newer version of the N54 in the next gen M3 ..

[igom3]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Unless you have a turbo or a supercharger on that old m3...I believe you would be the one that is driving a go-kart. I crushed e46 m3's with just a tune.

WOW! You are the man!

[A4rings]

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

We all know that 4 years ago the N54 came way detuned from the factory, since it was going to be the E9x M powerplant, it's no secret that it's a 400hp motor when tuned, so BMW figures that's more than enough for this car, saves costs as well in R&D.. we'll see the newer version of the N54 in the next gen M3 ..

then they should have saved the body kit and called this thing the 135is

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by igom3

WOW! You are the man!

I just think you need to think about what you are saying before you post it, thats all. Im not mad at cha, just dont be all high and mighty because you have an M, bc there will always be a determined underdog(my go-kart 335i) that will be more than happy to show you your place.

[dlbrooks18]

Originally Posted by A4rings

then they should have saved the body kit and called this thing the 135is

forgot about LSD, chassis improvements and track tuned suspension?? .. this car will be able to handle and put all of it's power down, like all other "M" cars before it .. big difference from "is" models

[dzenno]

Basically LSD made it into an M

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Basically LSD made it into an M

yup

I know everyone on here will be bias to the n54, no secret there. Its a great powerplant, but the fact that they didnt change a thing doesnt sit well with me.

suspension tweaks, cooling tweaks and a LSD and now its an M.

if they are rating this motor at what...340hp for the 1M, then its basically a stock n54.

Im sure its a great car guys, so no need to get your hackles raised.

curious to see what the traps will be, my guess is < 108mph

I would like it better if they lowered the weight to around 3100lbs and raised HP to 380 or so. Wouldnt be that hard considering what they started with.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Sniz

yup

I know everyone on here will be bias to the n54, no secret there. Its a great powerplant, but the fact that they didnt change a thing doesnt sit well with me.

suspension tweaks, cooling tweaks and a LSD and now its an M.

if they are rating this motor at what...340hp for the 1M, then its basically a stock n54.

Im sure its a great car guys, so no need to get your hackles raised.

curious to see what the traps will be, my guess is < 108mph

I really expected it to be around 380-390hp so it did disappoint me in the power aspect, but if you think about it they basically delivered a track car with all the suspension/lsd/bit of performance instead of another "is"...isn't this what we all were yapping about for the longest time, complaining why bmw didn't provide an LSD with the 335i, why the floaty suspension, a bit more power out of box (e.g. remember comments why back when we all said the N54 would've been at 340hp if the e46 M3 wasn't still being produced)...they were just a bit late if anything with bringing this model to the market and they WAY overhyped it, that's all....i really think they went for an N54 track car with aggressive styling and that's what they delivered

[MisterSkiMask]

It would be interesting to see the pile of parts it takes to make a 135 into a 1M, vs the pile of parts it takes to make a 335 into an M3, or a 550 into an M5.

Personally I like the car, but it is a car developed by the marketing wing of BMW.

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

It would be interesting to see the pile of parts it takes to make a 135 into a 1M, vs the pile of parts it takes to make a 335 into an M3, or a 550 into an M5.

Personally I like the car, but it is a car developed by the marketing wing of BMW.

In terms of power, It takes one part for the 335 to beat an m3. Its called the Procede. A little more to beat it at the track, but regardless. These cars are a way better bang for the buck than the current M cars IMO. The M5 is a beast tho. I have yet to run one, but Im looking for one on the road to test it out.

EDIT: i agree with you about it being from the marketing side

[McMuffin]

Originally Posted by Penn999

I just think you need to think about what you are saying before you post it, thats all. Im not mad at cha, just dont be all high and mighty because you have an M, bc there will always be a determined underdog(my go-kart 335i) that will be more than happy to show you your place.

[vasillalov]

The real question here is whether the LSD will be a direct swap for us or not...

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by Penn999

In terms of power, It takes one part for the 335 to beat an m3. Its called the Procede. A little more to beat it at the track

I disagree, but don't care to argue.

I will just say that there are many measures of performance and even if a bone stock 335 with procede can beat an M3 from 0-60mph there are many other ways in which the M3 is superior.