[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Thick headed.....when it comes to bullshit. Its simply sad to see all the piggy back developers raise all the points, without any form of proof, against flashes right as the flash market is on the rise. Ironic isnt it?

"Proof" that Dimsport requires removing and soldering to the N55 ECU to read it out is provided in the first post. "Proof" was also provided that the current N54 DME firmware is not yet locked.

Mike

[D.B.S]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

"Proof" that Dimsport requires removing and soldering to the N55 ECU to read it out is provided in the first post. "Proof" was also provided that the current N54 DME firmware is not yet locked.

Mike

Why aren't the flash tuners chiming in...? (I know, they don't have time to check all the sites that exist for BMW). I hate not having all facts... Granted Clap is providing an excellent rebuttal to Mike's claims, but without a flash tuner proving concrete solid evidence that they are doing 'the impossible' this is going to continue to be a back and forth on who is right and who is wrong. IF OE tuning will truely be finished with their flash's next week, hopefully that will put to bed the debate on if it's truely possible or impossible. (but i know it won't, as there will always be nay sayers)

[Jake@MOTIV]

Originally Posted by Army335xi

Why aren't the flash tuners chiming in...? (I know, they don't have time to check all the sites that exist for BMW). I hate not having all facts... Granted Clap is providing an excellent rebuttal to Mike's claims, but without a flash tuner proving concrete solid evidence that they are doing 'the impossible' this is going to continue to be a back and forth on who is right and who is wrong. IF OE tuning will truely be finished with their flash's next week, hopefully that will put to bed the debate on if it's truely possible or impossible. (but i know it won't, as there will always be nay sayers)

The flash tuners let their tune speak for itself - they post non intimidating information and let the tune be a success because its an actual tune. I don't run the cobb tune so im not fan boy lol. I just think that all this flash attacking is motivated because companies are worrying about their revenues. People on this forum believe too much of what they hear instead of learning what is what - especially tuning principles. I have never seen a platform so blind to what is really going on. I have been tuning for fun and side jobs on many many many different platforms (boosted and NA) and never have I seen anything like this.

There are only two tunes that I would consider (some others are not "bad" but way too overpriced). Those two tunes focus on actual tuning principles. Some of the other tunes out there are about as advanced as the plastic boost tee approach to bleeding off some pressure to the wastegate lol.

[jeffc31337]

The newest generations of ECUs are much better protected than pevious generations.

After almost 2 years no one has been able to flash a B8 S4 ecu via OBD2 port -- they are all done via bench flash similar to what they mention in this thread. In fact, mine is currently at Stasis getting a tuned loaded!

That being said it's only a matter of time/money until the aftermarket can crack any ecu either by reverse engineering, brute forcing or paying off someone at BMW engineering. The question becomes how long and how expensive; if it's too long or too expensive there isn't enough ROI to make it happen!

[Al Blue4.6l]

Originally Posted by FlyLow335i

The flash tuners let their tune speak for itself - they post non intimidating information and let the tune be a success because its an actual tune. I don't run the cobb tune so im not fan boy lol. I just think that all this flash attacking is motivated because companies are worrying about their revenues. People on this forum believe too much of what they hear instead of learning what is what - especially tuning principles. I have never seen a platform so blind to what is really going on. I have been tuning for fun and side jobs on many many many different platforms (boosted and NA) and never have I seen anything like this.

There are only two tunes that I would consider (some others are not "bad" but way too overpriced). Those two tunes focus on actual tuning principles. Some of the other tunes out there are about as advanced as the plastic boost tee approach to bleeding off some pressure to the wastegate lol.

on the bright side, Mike and Shiv have teamed up for once

[Al Blue4.6l]

Originally Posted by Army335xi

Why aren't the flash tuners chiming in...? (I know, they don't have time to check all the sites that exist for BMW). I hate not having all facts... Granted Clap is providing an excellent rebuttal to Mike's claims, but without a flash tuner proving concrete solid evidence that they are doing 'the impossible' this is going to continue to be a back and forth on who is right and who is wrong. IF OE tuning will truely be finished with their flash's next week, hopefully that will put to bed the debate on if it's truely possible or impossible. (but i know it won't, as there will always be nay sayers)

I think they did to some small extent in another thread...good luck finding it though. haha.

[D.B.S]

Originally Posted by Al Blue4.6l

on the bright side, Mike and Shiv have teamed up for once

Not entirely... Shiv has hinted at that the procede may in the future (one day over the rainbow) flash tune certain parts of the ECU... He also hinted at the fact that the procede can (today) flash the ecu...

SO yes maybe they are teaming up (in spirit) against flash tuning as it will cut into their profits (maybe, maybe not), but I think Shiv has flashing in the procede's future if even in a limited fashion.

Me personally, since i've had two BMW's, both have been tuned by a piggy (Procede and now JB3) and as advertised these products do what they say they will do... Will I get a flash in the future? Maybe, if it provides what I want, and the piggies don't... But if the piggies provide it, then a flash won't be in my future... Just depends on what each is offering... For the moment, only Terry has a tune that works on my N55 X5... Maybe OE tuning will be next, and That will be my intro into the flashing world... It's all speculation at this point...

Just wish we had a more constructive conversation here... Not asking for trade secrets, but a simple confirmation that the flashers have indeed done "the impossible" (according to some nay sayers)

[BT M3]

This same flash protection has been around for a while in the new M3s and we have no problem flashing those

Like I've told Terry a hundred times, the Dimisport is the biggest mickey mouse tuner in the flash tuner world. Beginners only. I laughed at this whole thread. Mike, you realize this same logic has been over and beyond and conquered months maybe even a year ago on the M3/X5M DME?

People have been doing Bootloaders for years on the "impossible" MS45 (ZHP) and Z4M (MSS70) and it is recently now available to do by ODB2.

Real tools get real results - tell Terry to upgrade.

This whole thread should be deleted purely by the idiotic assumptions by the crappiest tool builder on the market.

[jeffc31337]

Originally Posted by BT M3

the Dimisport is the biggest mickey mouse tuner in the flash tuner world. Beginners only.

Agreed, as do all the big VAG tuners(giac, apr, revo)!

[Juiced46]

This is just like when the GTR came out. Everyone said they are un-tuneable and look where they are at now. COBB cracked it and offers a flash for those. The N55 is new, not even a year old yet, someone will figure it out soon enough Im sure. Just a matter of time.

[secretsquirrel]

If it does truly use 1024 bit encryption, its not going to be cracked unless BMW was sloppy/dumb. However, money talks, and somebody has access to the keys who would love to make a large sum of money.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

BMW can read/flash the cars directly, they have the keys to the new encryption scheme. The new protection is intended to lock out aftermarket tuners. I thought you flash lovers would be pleased to see it's not locked on the N54 as of the latest update.

Mike

Same thing happened for any ecu, aside from maybe ford. This, like every other encyrption, will be broken. Like I said, if BMW can relash cars, so can the aftermarket.

[SennaZ]

Originally Posted by FlyLow335i

The flash tuners let their tune speak for itself - they post non intimidating information and let the tune be a success because its an actual tune. I don't run the cobb tune so im not fan boy lol. I just think that all this flash attacking is motivated because companies are worrying about their revenues.

Quite true.

You know one thing I always considered when buying a piggy or flash (and I have several), is the potential longevity of the company if it's based on one individual. Not to say either of the two piggyback guys who post here to a bit of excess is a 'one man show,' but it makes me nervous to think that they are the core of the company. I think Shiv is brilliant, but if he were to 'move on' I suspect his company would disappear in a short time - even moreso with Terry.

I just feel better with organizations that seem to have a lot of talent spread around... could just be me...

[UltraRacer13]

This thread is full of BS that drove me to COBB. Read the stuff from Cobb, not a single guy at Cobb badmouths or uses scare tactics to influence people to buy their tune. They simply post the facts as they know them and answer questions to the best of their ability.

Mike- this is shameless. You are standing on a mountain screaming at the top of your lungs-

WE ARE AFRAID OF COBB- BEWARE OF THE DEVIL THAT LURKS BENEATH!

In my field that BS is illegal. Sell your product on its merits- don't be a used car salesman.

[cwg]

Originally Posted by Clap135

it was posted on 1addicts, I don't pay attention to who did it, cause im set where I am at lol. Ill go dig it up for you


Edit: ESS

ESS has not yet released the N55 tune. I was told they were looking to release end of the month/first part of February. However that was about 3 or 4 weeks ago and have not heard more since then.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by cwg

ESS has not yet released the N55 tune. I was told they were looking to release end of the month/first part of February. However that was about 3 or 4 weeks ago and have not heard more since then.

Yet, I know someone local with Stage 1 Beta 135i....

[Jake@MOTIV]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

So Mike confirms (along with cobb) that n54s with the new software are still flashable and n55s are a bitch to flash (confirmed by no one yet releasing a flash) and everyone jumps down his throat. Good stuff.

Lol - I am guessing your a fan of his -

think of it like this - they have an n55 tune fresh to the market and want to sell alot of them. the cobb ap is definately a more intelligent, well rounded, refined tune that many people will probably wait for (the n55 jb dyno is just not a good looking chart). with this thread the intention was probably to say "hey guys no flash tuning coming get our tune its here"...a tune with no ability to control ignition timing that uses the stock ecu / dme to adapt on its own as a result of repeated knock would not make it on any platform besides this one. i've said it once i'll say it again - this platform has a ton of people who know nothing about tuning and put blind faith in what the manufacturer of each tune is saying.

[tscdennab]

In fact, if I think about it, there are ways for BMW to prevent straight OBD2 flashing (I say this as an experienced programmer). There are uncrackable encryption algorithms like the RSA which is used widely today, based on a pair of 2 keys: a public key (which every ECU should contain) and a private key (which only BMW has). E piece of data encrypted with the private key, can only be decrypted with the public key. Once BMW makes a flash, BMW "signs" the flash (read: encrypts a small part of the flash called a "digest") with their private key, and when flashing, the ECU checks (with the public key) that the flash file actually comes from BMW (read: was encrypted using the BMW's private key). It's actually a bit more complicated but this is the idea. Since 3rd party tuners do not have the BMW private key, then 3rd party OBD2 flash files are not accepted by the ECU.

But there are 2 ways to circumvent this:

1. By exploiting security flaws in the ECU firmware
2. By altering the ECU's flash verification code (which is probably located in the bootloader). This can probably only be done on a bench. However, BMW could read the ECU when doing a dealer visit and compare the bootloader code with their code, possibly triggering a red flag for that ECU and for that car's warranty. But this shouldn't be so simple as BMW should not make the bootloader readable via OBD2 because it would be easier for tuners to read it and reverse engineer it.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

So Mike confirms (along with cobb) that n54s with the new software are still flashable and n55s are a bitch to flash (confirmed by no one yet releasing a flash) and everyone jumps down his throat. Good stuff.

Originally Posted by FlyLow335i

Lol - I am guessing your a fan of his -

And I am guessing you're not

Mike

[RambleJ]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

So Mike confirms (along with cobb) that n54s with the new software are still flashable and n55s are a bitch to flash (confirmed by no one yet releasing a flash) and everyone jumps down his throat. Good stuff.

Thats what I took from it too.
And FYI, i have a flash myself not a JB product.

[Bagelfast]

Originally Posted by mithiral67

So Mike confirms (along with cobb) that n54s with the new software are still flashable and n55s are a bitch to flash (confirmed by no one yet releasing a flash) and everyone jumps down his throat. Good stuff.

+1 people on this forum are unbelievable sometimes. But i forget sometimes that some of these forum member helped build the N54/N55 and released the DME software for these cars

[D.B.S]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481075

First FLASHED N55... Just for anyone who hasn't checked this thread out yet...

Only question that remains is how did they flash it? Did they physically take the ECU/DME out, or was it thru the OBD2 port...? (i hope it was thru the OBD2 port)