[choatie88]

I think Shiv's claim was that the factory ECU never sees out-of-spec signals because the PROcede intercepts them. As far as I know he never made a claim that the factory ECU doesn't have data logging capabilities - in fact there has been some discussion about the consequences of it logging lost power when installing/removing the PROcede.

[bmwzimmer]

Yea, ECU logging data that your car was pushing 12-14 psi max boost is suspect that you definitely installed a Turbo Tuner or something else. With Procede, the ECU sees normal operating conditions 6-8 psi or whatever the stock max boost is. This along with a bunch of other features is why most people will pay a bit more for the Procede and deal with the longer install time.

[Raider]

excellent thread, im glad someone posted this...

[HellFish]

Originally Posted by Raider

excellent thread, im glad someone posted this...

more pics of your avatar please

[Juggs]

Originally Posted by CoralRedPlz

i guess there is alot of fools hanging around this forum.

i love how people assume that since its bmw, they have some kind of super-secret-all-knowing-computer that can prove that there were any mods to the ECU.
they forget the fact that there are computers and well trained experts (like shiv) that can inspect and test these facts and give us an answer that is correct.

that answer is no, bmw does not currently have any type of software that can detect a procede that has been uninstalled.

its like those people who always assume that the USA is doing the right thing, bc 'we are the greatest country in the world'.

all logic and reason seems to fly out the window in some of these threads.

you moron.. shiv is selling a product! Even he has said himself not to mod if you are worried about your warrenty.

in sidespeak that means that he understands his product is detectable to one degree or another, he just cant say that for sake of his sales.

While i think the procede is a fantastic product, any mod can be used to void the warrenty of that part of your car - that's the obvious fact of it. BMW can detect any modifications to your car - i know this because i modded my e36 m3 ( obd2) and they still detected i had it chipped with a euro HFM the day before i took it into the shop to fix an electrical problem. Luckily one didnt have anything to do with the other so the honored the warrenty.

[E90Boy]

Please keep the fighting to a minimal. If you don't own a 335i with PROcede and can't answer MY original question, your comments are really not needed in this thread. THANK YOU.

[ATG]

Originally Posted by HellFish

more pics of your avatar please

+1

[CoralRedPlz]

you moron.. shiv is selling a product! Even he has said himself not to mod if you are worried about your warrenty.

anybody who sells mods would be an idiot to not make this disclaimer.

in sidespeak that means that he understands his product is detectable to one degree or another, he just cant say that for sake of his sales.

sidespeak?

i have no idea what that means, but there is literally 0 proof of your statement.

While i think the procede is a fantastic product, any mod can be used to void the warrenty of that part of your car - that's the obvious fact of it. BMW can detect any modifications to your car - i know this because i modded my e36 m3 ( obd2) and they still detected i had it chipped with a euro HFM the day before i took it into the shop to fix an electrical problem. Luckily one didnt have anything to do with the other so the honored the warrenty.

again, this is a different mod (not a chip) and probably has like zero things in common with the procede.

how you can make that leap and say that this proves that bmw can detect any mod is well, (im searching for a word that isnt too harsh), silly?

[OpenFlash]

I honestly don't know how one can find any kind of proof that the PROcede was ever installed. It is not a flash so it has no effect on the flash counter built into the ECU. It does not provide the ECU with any signals that are out of range. It does not eliminate any signals that would go to the ECU. As a result, boost measured by the ECU is in the stock range. So is AFR. So is boost control duty cycle. So is intake temp. Etc,. Unless BMW has a tiny British nanny hiding under the hood looking for additional electronics, I think its safe to say the PROcede is invisible when removed. As some customers who reported themselves when taking the car to the dealership for service. But I think if someone is truly worried about this or anything else, don't modify the car.

One thing to remember is that unlike the TT, the PROcede adjusts fuel and timing directly by influencing the signals from the crank angle sensor and the factory o2 sensors-- not by adjusting the air temp signal which can be loggable and provide values which can be viewed as suspicious or "out of spec." We put a lot of time and testing into the developmemt of the PROcede. And much of thise time involved visits to the dealership to test for transparancy.

-shiv

[RiXst3r]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I honestly don't know how one can find any kind of proof that the PROcede was ever installed. It is not a flash so it has no effect on the flash counter built into the ECU. It does not provide the ECU with any signals that are out of range. It does not eliminate any signals that would go to the ECU. As a result, boost measured by the ECU is in the stock range. So is AFR. So is boost control duty cycle. So is intake temp. Etc,. Unless BMW has a tiny British nanny hiding under the hood looking for additional electronics, I think its safe to say the PROcede is invisible when removed. As some customers who reported themselves when taking the car to the dealership for service. But I think if someone is truly worried about this or anything else, don't modify the car.

One thing to remember is that unlike the TT, the PROcede adjusts fuel and timing directly by influencing the signals from the crank angle sensor and the factory o2 sensors-- not by adjusting the air temp signal which can be loggable and provide values which can be viewed as suspicious or "out of spec." We put a lot of time and testing into the developmemt of the PROcede. And much of thise time involved visits to the dealership to test for transparancy.

-shiv

Good info, thanks!
Once again, thanks for this great product... PROcede FTW!

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I honestly don't know how one can find any kind of proof that the PROcede was ever installed. It is not a flash so it has no effect on the flash counter built into the ECU. It does not provide the ECU with any signals that are out of range. It does not eliminate any signals that would go to the ECU. As a result, boost measured by the ECU is in the stock range. So is AFR. So is boost control duty cycle. So is intake temp. Etc,. Unless BMW has a tiny British nanny hiding under the hood looking for additional electronics, I think its safe to say the PROcede is invisible when removed. As some customers who reported themselves when taking the car to the dealership for service. But I think if someone is truly worried about this or anything else, don't modify the car.


One thing to remember is that unlike the TT, the PROcede adjusts fuel and timing directly by influencing the signals from the crank angle sensor and the factory o2 sensors-- not by adjusting the air temp signal which can be loggable and provide values which can be viewed as suspicious or "out of spec." We put a lot of time and testing into the developmemt of the PROcede. And much of thise time involved visits to the dealership to test for transparancy.

-shiv

To me it remains unclear if any residual signs are present after removal of the PROcede.

Didn't one of your customers take his car in for service and shortly after get a call stating that they believe he had done something to his ECU? That is at the very least circumstantial evidence that they did detect it since they called him out directly. They could have been taking a total stab in the dark, they could have seen something as simple as physical signs of the install, or maybe they did see some abnormal stored data.

I have heard of no similar incidents relating to any of the other products but then again there are a lot more PROcedes out there than any of the others.

[bmwzimmer]

That was CEA installing Drag Radial tires on his car that somehow caused it to throw cells.
BMW techs aren't going to check for your fingerprints if you're concerned about that or a flake of your skin, hair or Semen for DNA analysis.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by bmwzimmer

BMW techs aren't going to check for your fingerprints if you're concerned about that or a flake of your skin, hair or Semen for DNA analysis.

[HellFish]

Don't they know that the ECU lost power? Might be wierd if every time your car was brought to the dealership you have to tell them your "battery died" if they ask about it.

[OpenFlash]

I don't feel that you have to remove the PROcede every time you go infor regular maintenence. In fact, I don't expect that anyone would need to remove it unless they need to go in for a powertrain-related issue (like the flakey fuel pumps for example) where they might look for signs of abuse/modification/unauthorized repair/etc,. As far as ECU power loss, i always used to yank out the main ECU fuse in my old Miata everytime I parked it in the city. It's real easy to hotwire cars. A lot harder for theives to pop the hood, snoop around and troubleshoot missing fuses

Cheers
shiv

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I honestly don't know how one can find any kind of proof that the PROcede was ever installed. It is not a flash so it has no effect on the flash counter built into the ECU. It does not provide the ECU with any signals that are out of range. It does not eliminate any signals that would go to the ECU. As a result, boost measured by the ECU is in the stock range. So is AFR. So is boost control duty cycle. So is intake temp. Etc,. Unless BMW has a tiny British nanny hiding under the hood looking for additional electronics, I think its safe to say the PROcede is invisible when removed. As some customers who reported themselves when taking the car to the dealership for service. But I think if someone is truly worried about this or anything else, don't modify the car.

One thing to remember is that unlike the TT, the PROcede adjusts fuel and timing directly by influencing the signals from the crank angle sensor and the factory o2 sensors-- not by adjusting the air temp signal which can be loggable and provide values which can be viewed as suspicious or "out of spec." We put a lot of time and testing into the developmemt of the PROcede. And much of thise time involved visits to the dealership to test for transparancy.

-shiv

What about fuel flow or injector duty?

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by radgator1

To me it remains unclear if any residual signs are present after removal of the PROcede.

Didn't one of your customers take his car in for service and shortly after get a call stating that they believe he had done something to his ECU? That is at the very least circumstantial evidence that they did detect it since they called him out directly. They could have been taking a total stab in the dark, they could have seen something as simple as physical signs of the install, or maybe they did see some abnormal stored data.

I have heard of no similar incidents relating to any of the other products but then again there are a lot more PROcedes out there than any of the others.

To be fair it's my theory that he threw a check engine light due to a wiring issue and didn't clear the code after he fixed the problem.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

What about fuel flow or injector duty?

The are both still within the factory tolerances. I'll dig up some print outs i got from the dealership. They show 'snap shot' info of when certain codes were triggered (during PRocede/xede development). There is a whole list of max/min data (rpm, atmos pressure, manifold pressure, air temp, coolant temp, rpm, throttle angle, etc,.) I don't recall fuel flow or injector duty being there. Besides, I'd have a hard time believing that anyone would call you out due to 10% higher max fuelflow rates. Especially after after this whole fuel pump fiasco which could leave similar if not more extreme fuel trim/fuel flow history.

-shiv

[BoostedBMW]

Originally Posted by radgator1

To me it remains unclear if any residual signs are present after removal of the PROcede.

Didn't one of your customers take his car in for service and shortly after get a call stating that they believe he had done something to his ECU? That is at the very least circumstantial evidence that they did detect it since they called him out directly. They could have been taking a total stab in the dark, they could have seen something as simple as physical signs of the install, or maybe they did see some abnormal stored data.

I have heard of no similar incidents relating to any of the other products but then again there are a lot more PROcedes out there than any of the others.

I think that thread was an April fools joke when someone stated that they got a phone call.

[bmwzimmer]

AWESOME. This will put to rest alot of peoples concerns...

I wish someone with a Turbo Tuner who's close to a BMW tech or SA run this same diagnostic test on the ECU to see if anything shows up. Also would be nice to do this test on a stock car.

[CASHBY]

Just to let everyone on this forum know, and make this clear.

I know someone who was suspected of having a "chip" (procede) on his/her car and didnt have it on when the car was at the dealer. The dealer had sent the ECU data out to BMWNA to see if there was traces and BMWNA came back with abosolutley no traces of any "chip" ever being installed and it was 100% undetectable.

end of story!

p.s this person was not me.

[radgator1]

Originally Posted by Terry Burger

To be fair it's my theory that he threw a check engine light due to a wiring issue and didn't clear the code after he fixed the problem.

Very possible. We all can have a theory about it, but all we know is that they called and asked about the ECU. Like I said, it may have been a wild guess or something else. Unless someone here is the one who called, I don't think anyone knows for sure what pointed them in that direction.