[MKE_M3]

wouldn't you need to buy a controller for any meth kit?

[cstmx_ryder]

Originally Posted by jdemetry

Clap, thanks for all you've done to educate the community.

Fact 1 (according to how I've read your posts): There may be no noticable differance between your meth kit and Shiv's in terms of power, drivability or safety.

Fact 2 (from my life experiences): The driver probably makes a bigger differance than which meth kit is used in a 1/4 mile drag, and definately on a track with corners.

Given these two facts, which one do you buy?

You've said (to paraphrase) "why not get X because it's cheaper?"

Others say, "why not get Y because its a turnkey solution from a vendor I trust?"

Both sound good to me. Why not stop dedicating time to proving that two things are approxamately comprable?

A couple hundred bucks makes NO differance in many of the other people on this forum's life. Supporting someone who has provided me, and many others, great service and WOW product developement is worth it to me. Should I believe you, a random forum poster I don't know from Adam, or a vender I've worked with on multiple occasions and been blown away with his products/service. The truth is, I take it all into account and weight Shiv's opinion heavier because of what he has done for me.

I FEEL (maybe I'm wrong/crazy) that you have now started a second thread with the intent of hurting someone's business. If I'm wrong, great, thanks for the efforts on educating us.

For me, that's just it right there in bold. I feel that it's more of an unbiased review/fact provided by a third party (Clap in this case), rather than a vendor. Not saying that vendors are shady/biased, but we all know that there might (I said 'might') be a chance. Vendors want to make money at the end of the day. On the other hand, customers don't. Just my opinion.......

[Clap135]

People should keep in mind, that I do not sell parts. The only time I sway people towards/away form parts is when I actually have experience with them personally. How could I ever talk about soemething I never tried? I am not on this forum for profit or to make parts or any of that jazz.

Hell my career has nothing to do with the automotive industry. Like I said, I have a thing against vendors. They can offer and claim whatever they want, but most of the time the grass isnt greener lol

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by jdemetry

wouldn't you need to buy a controller for any meth kit?

Most meth kits come with this, its part of the "kit"

[Syndicategt]

Well I wouldn't say he's completely unbiased.....we all know Clap is very enthusiastic with all the mods which he currently owns

I only ever owned 1 other meth kit,a DO basic, that thing was well....basic, so I can't really comment on other systems than the one I have. But atleast mine won't be a paper weight if I ever change tunes (which I doubt I will though).

[MKE_M3]

I'd call it an advantage not to have to have extra harware , but it definately sucks pay more for a kit that doesn't include extra hardware .

You say you'd never talk about something you never tried. What were your experiences with Shiv's PWM kit on your 135i?

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Clap135

People should keep in mind, that I do not sell parts. The only time I sway people towards/away form parts is when I actually have experience with them personally. How could I ever talk about soemething I never tried? I am not on this forum for profit or to make parts or any of that jazz.

Start selling endorsements: "Proven and tested by Clap" No doubt it would be the right choice for all.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

Well I wouldn't say he's completely unbiased.....we all know Clap is very enthusiastic with all the mods which he currently owns

I only ever owned 1 other meth kit,a DO basic, that thing was well....basic, so I can't really comment on other systems than the one I have. But atleast mine won't be a paper weight if I ever change tunes (which I doubt I will though).

This is true, but you should also realize that I switch parts like my underwear for parts that I find to be better. When it comes to hardware like downpipes/exhausts/intakes....its a pipe, get what sounds nice/fits and make your wife go wtf did you spend 2k on. lol

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by jdemetry

I'd call it an advantage not to have to have extra harware , but it definately sucks pay more for a kit that doesn't include extra hardware .

You say you'd never talk about something you never tried. What were your experiences with Shiv's PWM kit on your 135i?

I have experience with the kit shiv uses on the n54....he just named it something different lol.

[MKE_M3]

Earlier in the thread, Syndicategt said he was the only one with experience with it!?!

[TXe92]

Can you speak to more of the tuning side of the meth. I know you briefly hit on the Cobb tuning and ATR in the other thread, but can you clarify what exactly is needed in conjunction with the ECU and the meth kit to work in harmony?

[MKE_M3]

well, I feel like I'm getting a little bitchy, so I'll try to stop asking so many questions. Thanks for beingcool with me, since I am ultimately just trying to learn.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by jdemetry

Earlier in the thread, Syndicategt said he was the only one with experience with it!?!

He might be on the n54, but not on other cars. You realize its the same kit right? You also realize that this kit does in fact work better on OTHER cars, but not so much on the n54 due to the fuel system in it.

[cstmx_ryder]

Originally Posted by Syndicategt

Well I wouldn't say he's completely unbiased.....we all know Clap is very enthusiastic with all the mods which he currently owns

I only ever owned 1 other meth kit,a DO basic, that thing was well....basic, so I can't really comment on other systems than the one I have. But atleast mine won't be a paper weight if I ever change tunes (which I doubt I will though).

Yes I agree. But couldn't it also be that the reason Clap is running through different setups because he always want one that's better than the previous? I think we've all been there one point or another, no?

So if Clap's doing a review on the setup he's using as of late, and makes valid points (pro/con) about them, that's all I care about I guess.......lol. Doesn't matter who's car it's on. He's probably using this setup for a reason, and now he's trying to show us why......

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by TXe92

Can you speak to more of the tuning side of the meth. I know you briefly hit on the Cobb tuning and ATR in the other thread, but can you clarify what exactly is needed in conjunction with the ECU and the meth kit to work in harmony?

in regards to the ecu, nothing. In regards to a tune, you need to tune timing/boost for the added cooling/octane meth provides, otherwise you will not gain anything but cooler intake temps.

I posted before I ran meth at the track on the cobb stage 1 tune, it gained nothing, because the stage 1 tune has boost and timing preset for pump gas, not for meth.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Clap135

in regards to the ecu, nothing. In regards to a tune, you need to tune timing/boost for the added cooling/octane meth provides, otherwise you will not gain anything but cooler intake temps.

I posted before I ran meth at the track on the cobb stage 1 tune, it gained nothing, because the stage 1 tune has boost and timing preset for pump gas, not for meth.

I think he was hinting on how to integrate a failsafe with Cobb too.

[tscdennab]

In my opinion, a non-progressive meth kit on the N54 engine doesn't make sense at all and can in fact alter the reliability and driveability.

Let's suppose you need a lot of meth up top and you are using a CM15 nozzle and a 50/50 water/meth mixture, which is the safer and balanced meth mixture that most people should use. It provides octane, and it provides cooling.

The N54 engine makes high boost at low RPMs and you may end up with so much water into the engine at like 1500RPM when the boost can already be at like 8psi which really doesn't make sense. With this engine, you are spraying too much meth/water mixture at many points in time and this can actually be detrimental and can have all sorts of effects. You don't want this to happen. If you up the boost trigger point, you remain with entire powerband portions which do not benefit from meth injection.

Even if the engine substracts fuel when you add meth, it doesn't do anything to compensate for the big amount of water you are pouring into the engine at low RPMs and high boost.

It's logical that you will want to spray more mixture when there is more need, and less mixture when there is less need.

My personal ideal meth spray pattern is the one that keeps a constant, high octane total fuel. That's why I use an Aquamist HFS-3 and spray the mixture in direct proportion to the fuel entering the engine. And I have managed to make almost perfect logs because of this.

So if you want reliability and drivability, choose a progressive kit which sprays less at less boost, and more at more boost as a minimum requirement. You are avoiding pouring tons of water into the engine at inappropriate times.

Now, progressive kits using progressive pump speed have one problem: when they spray al low speeds, dripping may occur because of poor atomisation. So that's why a PWM kit is ideal for progressive spraying. And it doesn't even need to be expensive, for $600 you can get the Aquamist HFS-2 which is customized for the N54 engine. It can be used with any tune and can be re-sold.

[Clap135]

Havnt researched that part yet, however a quick search on the evo/subi/honda ect forums will give me idea when the time comes.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

In my opinion, a non-progressive meth kit on the N54 engine doesn't make sense at all and can in fact alter the reliability and driveability.

Let's suppose you need a lot of meth and you are using a CM15 nozzle and a 50/50 water/meth mixture, which is the safer and balanced meth mixture that most people should use. It provides octane, and it provides cooling.

The N54 engine makes high boost at low RPMs and you may end up with so much water into the engine at like 1500RPM when the boost can already be at like 8psi which really doesn't make sense. With this engine, you are spraying too much meth/water mixture at many points in time and this can actually be detrimental and can have all sorts of effects. You don't want this to happen. If you up the boost trigger point, you remain with entire powerband portions which do not benefit from meth injection.

Even if the engine substracts fuel when you add meth, it doesn't do anything to compensate for the big amount of water you are pouring into the engine at low RPMs and high boost.

It's logical that you will want to spray more mixture when there is more need, and less mixture when there is less need.

My personal ideal meth spray pattern is the one that keeps a constant, high octane total fuel. That's why I use an Aquamist HFS-3 and spray the mixture in direct proportion to the fuel entering the engine. And I have managed to make almost perfect logs because of this.

So if you want reliability and drivability, choose a progressive kit which sprays less at less boost, and more at more boost. You are avoiding pouring tons of water into the engine at inappropriate times.

Now, a progressive kit using a progressive pump speed have one problem: when they spray al low speeds, dripping may occur because of poor atomisation. So that's why a PWM kit is ideal for progressive spraying. And it doesn't even need to be expensive, for $600 you can get the Aquamist HFS-2 which is customized for the N54 engine. It can be used with any tune and can be re-sold.

The vendor above you, ran a m14 with an on off switch....maybe ask him if he had any problems. Ill save the time and say no, he didnt.

As for low boost spray, it is a waste of time on this car. You do not need to spraying anythign at 4psi while you are on the highway switching lanes lol

[scottp999]

So, in a few weeks, why doesn't someone who has a traditional kit, who bought the new kit do logs on the same maps, with the same power mods? Too many other variables? Too marginal to see a difference? Waste of time?

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by scottp999

So, in a few weeks, why doesn't someone who has a traditional kit, who bought the new kit do logs on the same maps, with the same power mods? Too many other variables? Too marginal to see a difference? Waste of time?

Waste of time, but if you really want to get technical, a standard hit will support more boost due to higher pump pressures.

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by Clap135

As for low boost spray, it is a waste of time on this car. You do not need to spraying anythign at 4psi while you are on the highway switching lanes lol

Well, I have my own experience to look at too.

GIAC has used a progressive system from 3psi min to 7psi max in their tests. I have also observed that if I begin spraying at 10psi, I lose the opportunity of higher ignition advance down low on GIAC Stage 2 Race. So spraying earlier has benefits.